What was different about DCCs 2022 and earlier that allowed a 2AM or earlier finish?

Tin Man

Tin Man

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There is clearly a problem with DCC schedules and the finishing times this year and last year have been quite problematic (tournament finishing at 7AM last year and around 9AM this year). There have been a lot of solutions proposed, but to me that overlooks the fact that for a number of years the events were able to finish on time. My question is simple. What has changed?

Last year we had 4.25" pockets and I thought that was the culprit. This year, however, we moved back to 4.5". In addition they instituted the Grady rule (after 2 hours into a one pocket match no more than 4 balls in the kitchen or they'd be spotted at the foot end of the table to keep balls in play). Yet it appears that the schedule fell just as far behind.

Yet in 2022 the tournament finished around 2AM, and I remember in other years the event finished on a more normal schedule. So before we propose any radical changes to the format, what the heck has changed in the last two years?

Is it number of players enrolled? I didn't think so, because they have been capping entries and per-registration has been filling up faster each year. Is it the quality of play? I don't think this is it either, the average opponents are better than I've ever seen.

I'm just wondering why we can't look to the past for the solution. Thoughts?
 
End the rebuys after a certain point? More tables? Less 1 pocket players? Had tv table seats front row. Was excited for months to watch the 9 ball final and couldn't do it. Being a half a day over time and players at less than a 100 bc they've just played 4 or 5 matches straight with no break is at the end of an already grueling week, not cool.
 
It's the total number of players. More and more each year. It has steadily increased since 1999, save for the recession years.

When it was "fun" it was about 300 players. Then it got to 400 players and it was too much. Now its 500 players and its torture on everyone.
 
iusedtoberich said:
It's the total number of players. More and more each year. It has steadily increased since 1999, save for the recession years.

When it was "fun" it was about 300 players. Then it got to 400 players and it was too much. Now its 500 players and its torture on everyone.
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256 each event would be more than enough. that's still double most big events. especially trying to run the 3 main events, BF, banks, mini, etc.
 
Does anyone know how many entries there were in 2022? I see a lot of suggestions but I'm still not certain what changed. Was there really that big of a jump in participants?
 
skogstokig said:
i saw you drew filler and then svb. tough action!
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Hahaha. DCC is funny. I got some good draws (relatively, still some great players) in rounds 5-7 to have opponents that weren't among the game's elite, but yeah, those two matches felt unwinnable. My other six matches I won with a combined score of 18-3 so I was doing ok. But all that time I was making some errors, giving up the occasional shot, leaking away the occasional bank, and those other guys weren't punishing me for them to the same level. Not so with filler/svb. ;)
 
The solution is simple and fundamental; the number of tables must accommodate the number of games to be played which is dictated by a combination of the format and number of players.
 
Tin Man said:
Hahaha. DCC is funny. I got some good draws (relatively, still some great players) in rounds 5-7 to have opponents that weren't among the game's elite, but yeah, those two matches felt unwinnable. My other six matches I won with a combined score of 18-3 so I was doing ok. But all that time I was making some errors, giving up the occasional shot, leaking away the occasional bank, and those other guys weren't punishing me for them to the same level. Not so with filler/svb. ;)
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i think both are on youtube too, saved for posterity. don't remember which channel but i linked it in the DCC thread
 
I've heard mentioned number of tables and qualifiers to enter.

They didn't have qualifiers two years ago.
They didn't have more tables two years ago.

There are a lot of threads talking about solutions. I'm trying to understand what changed to create the problem. I'm still unclear. Anyone? Bob or Stu has to know.
 
Tin Man said:
Does anyone know how many entries there were in 2022? I see a lot of suggestions but I'm still not certain what changed. Was there really that big of a jump in participants?
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Banks, 1-Pkt., 9-Ball, Finish Time​

2024 -- 487, 402, unk.*, 10:55 am
2023 -- 499, 426, 526, 9:36 am
2022 -- 457, 370, 473, 1:20 am
2020 -- 452, 365, 408, 10:22 pm
2019 -- 505, 410, 407, 3:15 am
2018 -- 475, 393, 363, 3:17 am
2017 -- 436, 347, 322, 9:25 pm
2016 -- 475, 397, 406, 11:59 pm
2015 -- 414, 351, 310, 11:41 pm
2014 -- 361, 298, 263, 12:35 am
2013 -- 353, 280, 277, 10:19 pm

*Unknown. I was unable to count the 9-Ball entrants this year because the list was not posted on line. Ken Shuman said 500 a few times during his introductions.
 
A very important factor is whether they keep the tables busy. There should never be more than a couple of tables out of use and only then because a new pair of players is on their way to the table. I have seen times when there were fewer than 5 matches in progress on over 40 tables. That's broken.

I believe they have more tables available for tournament matches than ever.

There is a feature that's in the software that allows partial draws before the completion of a round. Maybe it wasn't used or not used early enough. I was watching this morning (2AM my time) when there were three players set for the round of four and one elimination match was in progress. They could have started a match on the TV table. They didn't. Really, really irritating. It looked like they weren't even trying.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
A very important factor is whether they keep the tables busy. There should never be more than a couple of tables out of use and only then because a new pair of players is on their way to the table. I have seen times when there were fewer than 10 matches in progress. That's broken.

I believe they have more tables available for tournament matches than ever.

There is a feature that's in the software that allows partial draws before the completion of a round. Maybe it wasn't used or not used early enough.
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I think you're right. There were a lot of open tables. I've never seen so many opportunities to hit balls and practice.

You're also right about the partial draws being delayed. I was scheduled to play Filler in round 3 of the one pocket at 4PM. He was still in the banks and they said that he had to finish the banks before he could play. As soon as he lost we would play, but if he kept winning I couldn't play until he was done. As it turns out he won the banks so we were pushed back from 4pm, to 6pm, to 10pm, to 10am on Wednesday. To your point though they waited until that match was over (and a Can Salim match that was similarly delayed) to start round 4 at all. At least that's what it looked like. I might be missing something.

So I think you're spot on. It looks like the head count was high but this might be the bigger issue.
 
Tin Man said:
I think you're right. There were a lot of open tables. I've never seen so many opportunities to hit balls and practice.
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So I think you're spot on. It looks like the head count was high but this might be the bigger issue.
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Do you know how many tables there were? Has it reached 50?
 
So an 18 hour delay for a single round? Yeah, there’s no way to make time up in the tight schedule if that’s the case.


Unless….one person doesn’t make deep runs in every division. Maybe if the majority of pros don’t show up next year, we could see division specialists win and suddenly a tournament over at 9pm
 
AtLarge said:
*Unknown. I was unable to count the 9-Ball entrants this year because the list was not posted on line. Ken Shuman said 500 a few times during his introductions.​
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Yeah, the posted list and the download only show the one pocket. The nine ball was never listed. So.... somewhere between 400 and 600.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Do you know how many tables there were? Has it reached 50?
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I believe there were 42. I am positive there were 40, but I remember seeing a room that said "Table 41 and 42, tournament overflow". I may have even had a match in that room, I remember it had a weird echo. So pretty sure 42. Meaning of life.
 
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