What would it take?
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
Earl Strickland asked for appearance money to play at recent JOB event in Nashville , they said okay , he called back asking for more , they said okay , he supposedly wanted more again , they refused.Maybe you can't win for losin'.
Marcus:
The problem is LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY. Our sport, fortunately or unfortunately, is played by folks from all walks of life. When you have a demographic *that wide*, you're bound to have a good percentage of the playing population -- including good/great/world-beater players -- that are lacking in basic responsibility and accountability skills. (This doesn't even touch on that fact that some of these players have made some really HUGE mistakes in life, that resulted in e.g. incarceration.)
Instead, these players, as they do in real (i.e. non-pool) life, want to point the fingers at everything other than themselves when something is not to their liking, or doesn't go the way it should, or they make a very unpopular / "not in the normal responsible mode of thinking" choice.
Most responsible people, people with a good upbringing or otherwise an instilled sense of right-doing, when they commit to a match or other responsibility, do their utmost best to show up and fulfill the commitment, or at least notify the parties involved that something else came up *the instant they know* -- and then work with those parties to put immediate conciliatory alternate plans in place to "make it up."
Do you see that being done in pool? For the most part, no. Everything is a "flip the coin" gamble. There are few very responsible players -- e.g. many of the Europeans (you won't find Thorsten Hohmann or Ralf Souquet doing something like that which you describe), as well as Shane Van Boening, or Tony Robles, et al. that are of this extremely responsible caliber. But many of the others are of the "flip the coin" type -- you don't know if you're going to have a match or get stood up. It's unfortunate that Ray Hanson had this happen to him, but I think even he knows the risk he takes when you involve some of the pool populace in a *commitment*.
It's a shame, and one that, with the other bad qualities in our sport that we won't mention here, are reasons why the general public won't touch our sport with a ten foot pole.
-Sean
Good Thread, Minorwood.
Real good post, Sean,
Sometimes the truth hurts. But what can you do! Having a word means a lot.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
Real good post, Sean,
Sometimes the truth hurts. But what can you do! Having a word means a lot.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
That and it is very unwieldy........
Both players showed up , it was Cliff's backer that didn't show up . Neither player could have done anything about that. The guy even owns the pool room where the match was supposed to take place , how can you blame this on the players give them a break.
Some people in all areas of life make huge mistakes also in lots of other sports. I don't see this having anything to do with pool alone as your trying to made it sound. Also this certainly doesn't stop the general public from touching other sports with a ten foot pole as you say. I mean what the hell, didn't Professional Football just have the coaches putting bounties that's right giving their players cash awards to physically injure the opposing teams players.
You seem like a nice enough guy but I really think that the points that you've expressed happen in all facets of life certainly not just in pool as your making it sound. All in all if you go out to see a major pool tournament the players lot pretty clean cut and presentable to me. I guess you've made all the right choices in life and have never been irresponsible or or made a mistake in life, you've lived a charmed life and that's just great I'm glad for you. I just hope you never do because there might be someone just like you out there somewhere sitting at a keyboard ready to judge you.
These guys are out there doing their best to stay afloat, they make a match together get backers and then one of the backers is a no show. Most likely he backed Cliff before and I'm pretty sure Cliff would probably like him to back him in the future, it's not like he can put a lot of pressure on the guy who's holding all the cards if he decides not to show up for what ever reason. What I'm saying is if there's going to be blame distributed make sure the right person gets it. I am really tired of people bashing pool players and gambling as to why this sport is having trouble, it's so easy to sit at a key board and bash the players.
Last edited:
That's funny LOL
It doesn't matter. Responsible people surround themselves with other responsible people - it's like a "built-in minimum-acceptable baseline" amongst people that have or achieved this quality in life.
Let's put it this way:
1. Cliff didn't associate himself with a responsible backer. Or...
2. Cliff himself displayed irresponsibility by associating himself with an irresponsible backer. Or...
3. For the "one time" purposes of this match -- e.g. a backer that came to Cliff's aid out of the blue, Cliff himself displayed irresponsibility by accepting the backing of a backer that he hadn't had enough long-term experience with to know that person as a responsible person.
No matter how you slice it, you have two irresponsible people here -- Cliff and his backer. And that irresponsibility was catastrophic for this match date, as well as causing a ripple effect for any future matches that BigTruck may want to consider for the future. It didn't look good on the stream -- when hundreds, maybe thousands(?) of people were tuned-in, and there will be a "once bitten, twice shy" approach for any future matches.
-Sean
Sorry, you were still editing your post when I replied.
As for "living a charmed life," no, I have not. I have my past as I'm sure many other people do -- things I've done in my past that I wished I'd never done. But never anything to the point of incarceration or anything like that. Self-realization that I was on a destructive path, pulling myself up by the bootstraps, and serving in the military straightened my *ss right out. Something that *I* and I alone, initiated. Some may see this speaks to an inner voice that knows the difference between right and wrong -- especially how other people may view my actions.
Look, we all can take the players' side, because it's the players we come to see, the players we idolize, and the players we support. But on the flip side of the coin, it's also the players' (plural) responsibility to ensure that they have all their ducks in a row to ensure the match goes off. It's not just a "me, me, me" thing when the public is involved. Like it or not, lack of responsibility in this regard has a negative effect towards the players. Every player, down to the man (woman) has to have a view of how one's own actions affect the sport, and not just think it will go under the radar, or that it will blend in with the other "acceptable bad happenings that happen every day," or that others' good actions, in quantity, will override/hide "this one little hiccup" (talk about deflection of responsibility in that last one!).
And also, you are correct that it's not just pool that experiences this. All sports do, but you don't (or very rarely) see this kind of irresponsibility when a public event is scheduled and committed to. It's not like a boxer doesn't show up for his prime-time TV match -- that has VERY rarely happened. The ripple effect of something like this would be just too catastrophic for both that boxer, as well as the sport itself. But it happens in pool a heck of a lot more!
EDIT: that backer's presence was KEY to this match going off. Anyone with any kind of sense of responsibility knows this; it's "almost" a no-brainer. Anyone knows that if either player, or if either backer, doesn't show up, the match is off. And anyone but pool players it seems, knows that if the match doesn't go off because "someone didn't show up," that it will have a negative effect on not only that player and his backer, but the sport as well. An inherent, "Damn, if this guy doesn't show up, the match is off -- it's my responsibility to make sure this guy shows up, or else this could be bad!" -- and then make sure you're on the phone ensuring that guy is on his way -- or trying to line-up an alternate backer (something that should've been done beforehand). But the players' stance seems to be, "oh well, backer didn't show up, I'm off the hook! Ho-hum!" No thought given to the public that were tuning in to the match or any after-effects. And I say that, because I've personally seen and experienced this attitude amongst pool players.
Taking the players' side, I'm sure you can pick apart my argument and stance to the nth degree (I'm not going to get into a very comprehensive point-by-point back-and-forth where we're picking apart each other's examples -- I think I made my point enough that a person without bias can see it for what it is.)
Itsfroze, I respect you, your point of view, and your history here. I hope you don't take exception to the fact that here, we just might have to agree to disagree.
Respectfully (honestly),
-Sean <-- who also plays pool, not just sitting at his keyboard as the generic canned "slam" was meant to imply
Last edited:
No I'm not upset at all this is just a discussion, I do however think that
this is just an action match.
If Big Truck decided that he was going to promote this out here on Az because he thought he could make some money by streaming this, that's where things go from a local action match that who ever hears about it might want to drive up there to watch, maybe bet some, into something bigger. All I'm saying is if I hear about something big going to happen local where I can drive to it, then maybe I'll go if it doesn't happen well then to bad so sad I drove there for nothing.
In this new age of streaming and internet if something doesn't come off then it effects maybe hundreds maybe thousands of people as you said. The guy who is putting this match out here where it goes from just a local action match to an event might want to get some guarantees. After all he is the one piggy backing on to this action match trying to make money. He's also the one lugging all stuff and doing the set up, not to mention the driving. He is also the one collecting money and going to disappoint a lot of people if it doesn't come off.
Cliff has been doing this for a long long time he is definitely what you would call old school I truthfully don't think he thinks in terms of anything but trying to secure a backer set up some action and win some cash. Unfortunately it didn't happen but that's how action has always been.
When they were talking about the Harriman and Schmidt round three they were talking about writing the rules down and having both people sign them and possible fines and so on. That's fine also just when it gets to that point it's turned into something else (which is fine) but it's not just an action match any longer! Just my feelings on this matter that's all.
this is just an action match.
If Big Truck decided that he was going to promote this out here on Az because he thought he could make some money by streaming this, that's where things go from a local action match that who ever hears about it might want to drive up there to watch, maybe bet some, into something bigger. All I'm saying is if I hear about something big going to happen local where I can drive to it, then maybe I'll go if it doesn't happen well then to bad so sad I drove there for nothing.
In this new age of streaming and internet if something doesn't come off then it effects maybe hundreds maybe thousands of people as you said. The guy who is putting this match out here where it goes from just a local action match to an event might want to get some guarantees. After all he is the one piggy backing on to this action match trying to make money. He's also the one lugging all stuff and doing the set up, not to mention the driving. He is also the one collecting money and going to disappoint a lot of people if it doesn't come off.
Cliff has been doing this for a long long time he is definitely what you would call old school I truthfully don't think he thinks in terms of anything but trying to secure a backer set up some action and win some cash. Unfortunately it didn't happen but that's how action has always been.
When they were talking about the Harriman and Schmidt round three they were talking about writing the rules down and having both people sign them and possible fines and so on. That's fine also just when it gets to that point it's turned into something else (which is fine) but it's not just an action match any longer! Just my feelings on this matter that's all.
Last edited:
why not hold qualifiers of some kind from diff states have two players match up from each state and from the money the qulifiers generate use that for the challenge match , or something along those lines that would be a great idea i think
Ironically, most all attributes your pointing out, I've found and dealt with while working within the auto industry on the repair side my whole life. Our demographics in this industry easily parallel the pool world and many other trades. I think most all types of jobs have dysfunction and its all on a relative scale within that industry or trade.
What our game does that others do not, it goes from infancy at having or being around a table during youth, to being forgotten till we reach college or later on, and its now coupled with alcohol, loud music, and late nights.