What would you do? 8-ball in dire situation

[Steve Lipsky]

Jude,

I must be missing something... why aren't you just going to slam the 14 and hopefully get a shot on the 13? There are ways, as you know, to do this with a modicum of precision and increase your odds a tad. And on a bar table, if you can see the 13 after the break, you're making it.

I only ask because I don't see how the hell you're going to win the game otherwise. 8-ball games like this involve the concept of "time", exactly as in chess. We each get one turn to do something, but not (and never) two in a row. This works to the severe disadvantage of the player who is behind, when each turn involves only safeties and maneuverings of the layout.

Your opponent made a mistake by giving you this opportunity. It is almost certainly your last one that can potentially lead to you winning the game (surely you can win this game by doing other things, but they will all require a blunder by your opponent). If you do anything else here, you've given up your opportunity to win - because on your opponent's next shot he's just going to pocket your hanger and give you a useless ball in hand. Then he can nickel-and-dime you over the next 40 innings until he's placed his balls just right for a run-out.

Anyway, since the above is nothing new to you, I am very interested to know what you did.

- Steve

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude,

I must be missing something... why aren't you just going to slam the 14 and hopefully get a shot on the 13? There are ways, as you know, to do this with a modicum of precision and increase your odds a tad. And on a bar table, if you can see the 13 after the break, you're making it.

I only ask because I don't see how the hell you're going to win the game otherwise. 8-ball games like this involve the concept of "time", exactly as in chess. We each get one turn to do something, but not (and never) two in a row. This works to the severe disadvantage of the player who is behind, when each turn involves only safeties and maneuverings of the layout.

Your opponent made a mistake by giving you this opportunity. It is almost certainly your last one that can potentially lead to you winning the game (surely you can win this game by doing other things, but they will all require a blunder by your opponent). If you do anything else here, you've given up your opportunity to win - because on your opponent's next shot he's just going to pocket your hanger and give you a useless ball in hand. Then he can nickel-and-dime you over the next 40 innings until he's placed his balls just right for a run-out.

Anyway, since the above is nothing new to you, I am very interested to know what you did.

- Steve

If it were a bar-table, I probably would have done just that since all I need to do is see the ball. This was a standard 9-footer with shimmed pockets against a run-out player. I simply didn't see how I was going to get a shot off of the slam. Normally, I'm very aggressive (and you know this) and perhaps this was a time to get aggressive.

 

[supergreenman]

So my opponent was on the hill and I was just having one of those bad days. You know, when you can't see the outs and even if you do, you can't knock down the shots? Well, I'm playing on a double-shim table, struggling a little to knock 'em down and end up messing up my out (again). However, I manage to tie things up but I'm looking things over and realize that my opponent has the advantage. All he has to do is combo my ball in and I'm pretty much through (see Wei table below).

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%A[5B1%BF3Z5%Cp4G8%D[5B3%EJ4Z8%FI0Z8%Gr4J0%HH7N7%IB6B6%JB6B6
%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%ND0Z5%O[5\7%PZ3I8
)END

View attachment 15441

I have the 13 and 14 near the lower-left corner. The rest are all solids. Now, I'll save you the suspence, I didn't win but I thought my idea was my best chance. Before I give it away, I was wondering what everyone else had in mind. BTW, my last shot was defensive. Although I did want to try breaking out the 13, I simply didn't see anything good coming from it.

Ok I didn't read anybody elses reply but if this has been said before I apologize for being repetitive. This is what I would do.

Call Safety shot... and leave it like this:

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%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%NB5\4%O[5\7%PE1Z9
)END

That would force him to break your last ball out and doesn't give him much pocketing oportunities.

 

[supergreenman]

ok I should have read the rest of the posts..... darn apa rules.

 

[Eric.]

Don't forget, you don't *have* to shoot at your ball.

There is the intentional miscue... "Oops! I'm going to get this darn tip replaced! You have ball-in-hand."

Or intentional foul... Pocket or move one of your opponents balls to a nasty place. Or move 8-ball to a nasty place.

Or just grab cue ball and hand it to your opponent (giving them ball-in-hand). This might not be as good as an intentional miscue. Your opponent may figure out that you are doing this for a reason. With the intentional miscue, they may become delighted with their good fortune of getting ball-in hand, shoot in their non-clustered balls first, then break out that mess for you - depends on the player though.

I dunno if this would be the best advice against anyone above a local bar banger that you see in the typical race to one 8 ball tournies.

Giving up BIH in that rack would give a big advantage to your opponent. For example, I could take BIH and play the 5,6,13,2,14 combo, pocketing your ball and leaving the CB buried behind the 5, with your 13 barely moving. The 2 ball should also be a hanger for me, with the possibility of a breakout if I get the proper angle (or if you miss your kick and give me BIH again, or if you make the kick and leave me a shot on the 2 hanging in the corner pocket...)

Personally, I like the options Cornerman mentioned.


Eric

 

[TheBook]

How about playing rail first off the end rail into the 14 this would then have the CB hit into the pile and maybe open up the 13. If the 14 doesn't go in it would still be blocking the pocket and the 13 may now be open.

 

[supergreenman]

I guess you could have taken the 14 with bottom right and then shot an intentional foul of the 8 softly into the pack behind your 13 like this:

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%K[5\6%L[7B3%MG6Z6%NB9\4%O[5\7%PE3I5%UH7X7%VH7O4%WH4M0%XE9J1
%Y\3H7%ZI1M6%[E4Z4%\E8Z5%eB3b3
)END

It might not get you a win, but it's worth a try.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I would try banking onto the 2-ball clipping the edge and sending it out by the 8. That may leave your 13 open or a bank if he pockets your 14 and gives you ball in hand. A foul doesn't always mean you are loosing control of the game, only bad safeties/plays to that.

 

[pharaoh68]

Here are my two options. Now, keep in mind that this is based on your diagram and not the real table, so they may not work because the lay out my not have been exactly like it is in this image.

1) Play the fourteen cheating the pocket a hair to the right. Play low left on the cue and have it come off the fourteen, into the rail, and back into the 2 ball which, appears to be frozen to your 13. This will send the 2 mid table in the direction of the 8 so, give it some gas to either nudge the 8 create a gap between the two or have it go straight past the 8. Then, your 13 will hopefully be just off the rail and just out from the 6. If you play it right, you'll have one of three pockets for the 13 (top-sde pocket, top corner pocket, bottom corner pocket). Not the easiest but, if you don't want to play the safe game, this could be your best bet.

2) This depends on how accurate the layout shown here is. If its precise, this could work. If its not, skip reading this altogether. Play the cue with a little draw into the 13 as fat as you can without hitting the 6 first. The 13 being frozen to the 2 should force the 2 to clip the 14 and drop it. Drawing the cue ball a little brings it back into the middle of the table and out into the open while the 13 will play off the two, into the rail, and ever so slightly out into the open about 6 to 8 inches out from the same corner you just pocketed the 14 in. The two should be out of the way as well. Now, play the 13 into the corner and pocket your 8. Speed is important here but you shouldn't have a problem guaging the correct speed for this shot.

I don't like the safe here because if he safes you back but running a ball or two and leaving you behind the cluster and on the rail, you not only have to kick past the 8 ball, but you have to hit the short rail first with the right speed to create a breakout for your 13 AND leave a shot. Too dicey.

 

[renard]

Hey Captain. This is exactly what I did. Unfortunately, I hit it a little too good and too strong and had the 8-ball follow in (yes, on tight pockets no less). Had I hung the 8-ball, I would have offered a draw immediately. That was my goal.

A few people looked at me as though I was crazy but I honestly thought I was backed in a corner. If I didn't dramatically change the layout of the table right then and there, he was going to make my life very difficult. Moving the 8-ball infront of a pocket we both really needed seemed like the way to go.

Jude with the APA rules the way they are you did the right thing. The results for this shot are a higher percentage than the others. With other rules (besides APA) I would have tried the 14 ball safety. Tough situation...

 

[TATE]

Jude,

I imagine your concern was that you might not be able to get a decent break out on that cluster by hitting the 14 first.

If the layout was really as shown, you could have got a nice breakout by going rail first on the 14, aiming for a thin hit, with maybe firm low left as shown.

I would think that would give you the best chance of winning.

Chris

 

[Eric.]

Jude,

I imagine your concern was that you might not be able to get a decent break out on that cluster by hitting the 14 first.

If the layout was really as shown, you could have got a nice breakout by going rail first on the 14, aiming for a thin hit, with maybe firm low left as shown.

I would think that would give you the best chance of winning.

Chris

Chris, ya sure that's the best way? I'm thinking that if you hit the 2 full, you'll freeze the CB there, leave the 13 exactly where it lies, and send the 5 ball up table.


Eric

 

[RoadAgent]

I would tap the 13. This will throw the low ball into the 14 ball and knock the 14 in. The low ball will get out of the way, allowing you to finish the out. If the 14 doesn't go in, then it will tie up the pocket.

sounds familar....

 

[TATE]

Chris, ya sure that's the best way? I'm thinking that if you hit the 2 full, you'll freeze the CB there, leave the 13 exactly where it lies, and send the 5 ball up table.


Eric

I would be aiming to only catch half the two ball. I think the 13 would end up bouncing out in front of the pocket and the cue ball coming to somewhere in the middle of the table. The harder you hit this with low left, and the thinner you hit the 14, the more of the two ball you can catch.

Chris

 

[Eric.]

I would be aiming to only catch half the two ball. I think the 13 would end up bouncing out in front of the pocket and the cue ball coming to somewhere in the middle of the table. The harder you hit this with low left, and the thinner you hit the 14, the more of the two ball you can catch.

Chris

That's what I'm concerned about. Also, if you hit the 2 ball too thin, I think the 13 might get stuck in the pack, with the 2 blocking the corner pocket.

I'll try the shot later.


Eric

 

[cheesemouse]

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%\G9Y6%eB5b6
)END

I'm not going to get into a safety battle here with a run out player being at the disadvantage going in. I would hit this just hard enough to draw off the...oppphssss...what they said....LOL

 

[sjm]

Go for the runout. You're a heavy underdog in a safety battle against any decent strategist, even with the eight over the pocket. Slam the fourteen in, and hit that cluster hard as you can. Then hope!

 

[TATE]

That's what I'm concerned about. Also, if you hit the 2 ball too thin, I think the 13 might get stuck in the pack, with the 2 blocking the corner pocket.

I'll try the shot later.


Eric

I tried my shot - too diffifult to aim the cueball to the right place. Best just to cut the 14 and breakout with a half ball hit on the two. This was pretty easy to do and sets up the 13 in the corner almost every time.

Chris