What would you do? Part 1

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So the situation is that you've got a nice little run going and you want to create something out of this mess. I can tell you that the 14 - 15 combination is nearly a straight shot on the 14. The 7 is touching the rail. The 14 does not pass by the 15. Edit: the 14 sits a little lower than where the bottom row of balls in the rack will be... too low for a break ball as is.

One of the things I was interested in was acousticguru's idea that you should take the easier path and let the chips fall where they may. I hope I'm getting the context of that concept right. I'd like to see how that approach fits into this kind of end run. I'm not sure I followed that advice.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this layout and how you would plan for your next break ball. I'll post my choice and results in Part 2.

Thanks!
 

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5 first, then seven. Notice that the the 7 is close to the rail and directly in line with the 14. It's easy to pocket the 7 and to develop the 14 into a breakball and you have an insurance ball right there, over the pocket (15). Position to the 14 is probably going to be a 2 rail route and not in any way a stop shot position, but I think most decent players can pull that shot off, unless they end up frozen, or too close to the 14. Conservative option is to use the 7 for a breakball (draw, behind the rack breakshot). Not high yield and you need a pretty good angle (meaning you need precise position). I'd much rather go the first route.

I see one more option, but it is so haphazard, it's not even worth mentioning. I'll do it anyway, for your amusement. Seems like if you shoot the 14-15 combination, the 14 will float into position as a behind the rack breakshot. Looks like you are pretty straight in on that, so that it is possible to get controllable postion on the 5. Problem is, you need excellent position on it to ensure not being doubled up on your key ball (in this case the 7). I told you it was haphazard.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
5 first, then seven. Notice that the the 7 is close to the rail and directly in line with the 14. It's easy to pocket the 7 and to develop the 14 into a breakball and you have an insurance ball right there, over the pocket (15).
Click to expand...

I was a little worried about that 15 ball as insurance. Maybe I'm over thinking it, but here me out: If I want to make the 14 a good break ball I need to bump in on the left side. This will probably leave me without a shot on the 15 or such a sharp cut that position on the 14 will be difficult. If I want to assure a shot on the 15, I need to bump the 14 on the right side, which defeats the purpose of bumping it because it won't be the best break ball at that point. So I really have to bump the 14 head on for me to have both a good break ball position and a good key ball shot. I just thought it was too touchy and that the combination was a free shot, as I mentioned.

Thanks for commenting and I look forward to other opinions.
 
from the picture it appears that you want to hit the 14 dead center to promote it into a break ball, which is different from what you're saying. you were there, so i have to go with that, but it sure doesn't look like you want to hit it on either side from the photo.

that said, even if you did hit it on the side, the only way you could end up without a shot on the 15 would be to graze the 14 and end up behind it. with the speed involved, that looks very unlikely, and i would err towards the side yielding a sharp cut on the 15, personally, because i like even crazy-thin shots a lot more than pounding the ball.

glad it worked out for you, even if in an unexpected way, but the path sp99 points out is the same one that immediately occurred to me, and i think it's a heckuva lot safer.
 
If a player has decent ball to ball billiard skill, he would opt to push the 14 into position with the 7 as the 15 (key ball) lays good thereafter. For that player, the probability of success is about the same as any other permutation of this layout.
 
Dan White said:
So the situation is that you've got a nice little run going and you want to create something out of this mess. I can tell you that the 14 - 15 combination is nearly a straight shot on the 14. The 7 is touching the rail. The 14 does not pass by the 15. Edit: the 14 sits a little lower than where the bottom row of balls in the rack will be... too low for a break ball as is.

One of the things I was interested in was acousticguru's idea that you should take the easier path and let the chips fall where they may. I hope I'm getting the context of that concept right. I'd like to see how that approach fits into this kind of end run. I'm not sure I followed that advice.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this layout and how you would plan for your next break ball. I'll post my choice and results in Part 2.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Okay, here's what i would try.

I would shoot the 5, roll up a little.
shoot the 7 try to go up and bump the 14 up to a break shot. (but this is the kinda stuff that gets me in trouble....LOL)
if succesful i would then shoot the 15 as KB to the 14.

there is a lot of risk doing this, but like Danny Barouty and Stevie Patterns have said. Sometimes you have to take a little risk when you can, than a lot of risk later on.

-Steve
 
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I would go 5-15-14-7. Draw back into the botton of the rack. 14 also is viable going one rail into the side of the rack with cue ball going up table but I like my chances of having a better shot using the 7.

Thanks for starting the tread. I enjoy these discussions.
 
In a money or tournament match....5-7....bump the 14....if it doesn't work out...make the
failed break ball and call safe....Frank Tabersky is my hero.

If I'm doing the straight pool challenge thing...I'm playing for the 7 as my break ball...
....5-15-14
 
Dan White said:
So the situation is that you've got a nice little run going and you want to create something out of this mess. I can tell you that the 14 - 15 combination is nearly a straight shot on the 14. The 7 is touching the rail. The 14 does not pass by the 15. Edit: the 14 sits a little lower than where the bottom row of balls in the rack will be... too low for a break ball as is.

One of the things I was interested in was acousticguru's idea that you should take the easier path and let the chips fall where they may. I hope I'm getting the context of that concept right. I'd like to see how that approach fits into this kind of end run. I'm not sure I followed that advice.

I'd be interested to hear opinions on this layout and how you would plan for your next break ball. I'll post my choice and results in Part 2.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I see two routes I might take here, and all depends on how confident I'm feeling (if I have the rails and speed of the table down, how many I need to get out, if the score is close and the game nearing the end etc.):

1) 5-7-15-14 with the idea being to bump the 14 up for a break shot from the 7, which leads to a two rail angle from the key ball 15 to the break ball 14. While I feel comfortable doing this, it may go wrong once in a while.

2) 5-15-14-7 leads to a type of break shot I don't look for given the choice but actually have sufficient success with that it might be the wiser choice (in particular if this were my last break shot of the game and I only need a few, but even if not it may be better than to bet the whole game on last-minute bumping a break shot into position).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
5,7 bump the 14 and use 15 as the key ball is the best way to go here. Any A level or above should execute this pattern 90+ % of the time. Even good B's would be successful the majority of the time. Lower level players would have a bit more trouble but I'd emphasize that they should still play it that way.
One reason is that a C player using the 7 ball as a breakshot is going to have very little chance to continue their run with such a subpar BS. A good player would be able to execute and get a shot a good % of the time but a lower level player won't succeed very often. The primary reason however, for bumping the 14, is that this and other things like it are essential to improving as a player. Expand your comfort zone.
I've heard people say a thousand times " I don't feel comfortable doing that". And I tell them all the same thing.
If you continue to play, these situations will come up over and over again. If you don't try something you will never feel comfortable with it. The result of that is you will lose when you could have won and will be accepting mediocrity.
A couple reasons top players are top players is that they hate losing and they refuse to accept mediocrity in themselves.
 
sparkle84 said:
5,7 bump the 14 and use 15 as the key ball is the best way to go here. Any A level or above should execute this pattern 90+ % of the time. Even good B's would be successful the majority of the time. Lower level players would have a bit more trouble but I'd emphasize that they should still play it that way.
One reason is that a C player using the 7 ball as a breakshot is going to have very little chance to continue their run with such a subpar BS. A good player would be able to execute and get a shot a good % of the time but a lower level player won't succeed very often. The primary reason however, for bumping the 14, is that this and other things like it are essential to improving as a player. Expand your comfort zone.
I've heard people say a thousand times " I don't feel comfortable doing that". And I tell them all the same thing.
If you continue to play, these situations will come up over and over again. If you don't try something you will never feel comfortable with it. The result of that is you will lose when you could have won and will be accepting mediocrity.
A couple reasons top players are top players is that they hate losing and they refuse to accept mediocrity in themselves.
Click to expand...

Excellent point: whenever I hear someone say that bumping balls is low-percentage, I'm wondering if they ever play Straight Pool. I feel comfortable doing it. But I also agree with the 90+% notion: there are situations (such as approaching the break at 98 in a run to 100 needing two for the win after the break) where anything deemed less than 100% won't do. And the truth is that the 99+% alternative isn't bad at all (the worst case scenario is possible re-break balls on the side of the stack blocking each other's path to the corner pocket while getting straight in on the side pocket position while not coming off the side rail enough - a recipe for safety play). Not for a C player, but knowing what one does (the trick is to do it with precision versus overdoing it), chances of hitting the stack, come off the side rail (to the right from the picture perspective) for a shot on one of the two object balls at the top of the rack into the middle pocket (left from our perspective), with a good secondary break shot on the side of the rack and logically higher up than where the 14 is now, is close to 100% - it's the kind of stuff that when I teach, I explain to students before I even get to or shoot the break shot, pointing out which object ball I'm going to use to re-break the stack and how, and I hate making a fool of myself in situations like that (i.e. that's how high-percentage this is). Personally, I feel one needs to able and do either, depending upon situation and conditions ("comfort zone" is when one seems to have no alternatives, no choice). Then again, I agree, I love bumping balls into position - I'm a Straight Pool player (if any excuse were needed: "Sue me!", is what I usually say…). ;)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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