What would you do with this basement layout problem? (the dreaded pole)

[Tony_in_MD]

I have a 12 foot span with a pole in my basement I always wanted to remove too.

based on your formula I would need:

12 ft = 144 inches
144/2 = 72 inch high beam.

That is a 6 foot high beam. Instead of a pole we will now have to duck. Thank god I am short.

One other thing. If you can get a steel H beam down there it would solve your problem. You take the total span in feet. Convert that to inches and then divide by 2 and that will give you the necessary height of the beam.
As another poster said LVL, microlam and paralam are also ways to go. The over all cost of the project should not be that much. Especially if you have a friend that is a contractor.

 

[Sev]

I have a 12 foot span with a pole in my basement I always wanted to remove too.

based on your formula I would need:

12 ft = 144 inches
144/2 = 72 inch high beam.

That is a 6 foot high beam. Instead of a pole we will now have to duck. Thank god I am short.

HAHAHHAH!

No convert the feet to inches. You need a 6 inch beam. I would go with an 8 though.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I think moving that wall facing the beam on in is your best option now. If it is a bearing wall, the pole could be removed without any issues. If it is not load bearing You will have put apole inside the new wall further back. Don't forget you also need to create a new footer for the pole. Resting it on the floor is not the way to do this.

Also if you could move the wall with the TV on it back you could have more room to change the layout of the table towards the center of the room as it will give you more width in that room.

The alcove then could become a bar. :thumbup: Since you have a bathoom behind your Pinkfloyd wall :thumbup: :thumbup: you can get water to it easily enough too.

In conclusion! :

Correction to something I said earlier. Just had a look, and actually the staircase is not right there behind the pole. There is some space within the wall (on the pole side) that I can't seem to get to, and so I'm not sure what's there. There's a closet in another room behind the left side (which is behind the staircase), and while it goes deep, I don't think it goes all the way to the wall -- if it's just a closet, that'd be great).

Got out the measuring tape this morning:

The length of the room within the nook (from the framed octopus art to the wall "behind me") is about 18 1/2 feet.

Within the nook, the width (between the Pink Floyd wall and the opposite wall) is 12'6".

To get the width to 15 feet, I'd have to knock down the wall up to about where the red light is on the TV in this picture:

That may be an option.

From the TV to the wall behind me, it's only about 12 feet, so the table can't go "long-ways" in the room. To the question someone else raised, the length of the room itself is pretty long, but it's the 12' width that's the problem -- that's why it's in the nook, to get the extra 6" in the width.

If it's possible, I'm liking the idea of reclaiming that space up to the middle of the TV (or even just to the right edge of it), then re-inforcing things so that the pole can be removed. To your point, if I'm going to do all this (and it seems this will be fairly expensive), I might as well go for a 9-ft table. Per the Brunswick website, for a 9-ft table and a 58-inch cue, you need a 14' x 18' room. A 9 foot table with no obstruction would be awesome. And that's really what I should aim for if I'm going to make the investment at all.

In the meantime, I'll deal with this as-is. I think the room plays better than most of you think -- the obstructions (all added up) are probably an issue about 6% of the time -- that's my guess, and that could be high.

Given the expenses for this, it's probably a project for one or two years or so down the road. I think I know what I should aspire to now -- the end result would be worth the wait. Thanks once again for all the input -- very helpful.

 

[pocketspeed]

Also you may not need that post anymore depending on the direction in which the joist run. You have a wall near the pool table that probably was added after the general construction was completed. This wall can be a bearing wall and be safely used to take the weight that the lolly column is supporting.

It would take a contractor 5 minutes to determine this. If the column can be safely removed all you have to do is barrow a house jack. Jack up the beam about a half an inch and remove the lolly column. Virtually no cost to you.

this is wrong. bad advice here. yes the wall near the table will bear weight if it runs perpendicular to the joists. however that lally column is holding up a beam that runs down the middle of the house that supports floor joists from both sides. if you just remove the column half of the floor joists will be unsupported over too long a span for the plain wood beam that is there. you'll need a microlam beam or a peice of steal. always recommened wood in a home.

sev are you a contractor? if so i cant believe you would recommend this. this is really dangerous advice. please dont anyone try this at home.

on the other hand we always had a little saying in the company i worked for: we love amateurs, they always brings us work in the end

brian

 

[Rich R.]

Sell the house asap and get a room that accomodates the table. Either that or learn to love Checkers.

I agree with Nostroke. Sell the house.

Another option would be adding onto the first floor of the house. Build a dedicated game room. In addition to having a room that works properly, it will be in a better location, on the first floor.

 

[hang-the-9]

As mentioned in my original post, there's foundational concrete there. Already looked into demolishing it, but can't do that.


Not drunk and tired, but resourceful, yes. Was happy to put my old albums to use. They are organized chronologically, and the bottom row is comprised of bootlegs... They're quite straight, and they were put up sober! As for moving them -- not sure how I'd free up feet... they are just album covers/sleeves... maybe 5-10mm thick?

Well, I meant if you move them into another wall, you can take that wall down, freeing the space.

 

[SoundWaves]

I have a 12 foot span with a pole in my basement I always wanted to remove too.

based on your formula I would need:

12 ft = 144 inches
144/2 = 72 inch high beam.

That is a 6 foot high beam. Instead of a pole we will now have to duck. Thank god I am short.

When I did mine we used 4 2X18" microlam beams bolted together. In order to not smack your head we cut out the floor joysts above and sunk the beam into to the ceiling.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Sell the pool table and put in a ping pong table.

WAY more fun.

Basically, i wouldn't have a table in my house unless it fit properly and i could play the game as it is supposed to be played.

Anything less would completely annoy me.

 

["T"]

One thing working on your side here is that your ceiling height is pretty good. It looks like if you had to add a new beam to span across the current location of the table, the new beam should still be high enough to not create a head nusiance. What is not working on your side may be the soffits that are likely for the HVAC ducts for the the floor upstairs. Not the end of the world, but just one more trade involved in the project.

Like other posters have said, get a contractor to look at it, but I would add that you should have two or three look at it. It's likely that even well qualified contractors may have different opinions on how best to do it and it is important that you as the customer completely understand all the possible options before making your decision.

Personally, as a pool player and a construction manager, I wouldn't remove the column unless you are able to deal with the walls as well. To spend all that money on dealing with the column only to still have the walls in the way, I can't imagine feeling 100% about things when they're done. You have a great room right now and if the chips are fresh and the beverages are cold, I can't imagine any guests having a bad time because of a couple "local" conditions.

I wish I had your problem!

Good luck!

 

[TXsouthpaw]

remove the poll, then center the pool table. Thats about all you can do. Or just sell the house and buy one that accomodates the table.

 

[Vinnie]

I had some pools in my room also. Here is what i did. I got me 2, 1/4" X 22' Long plates and put them up for support beams and took the pools out. I am not sure if it will work for you but its a thought

I too have a pole in the way and was considering doing this. Is the method you used a solid and sound method for removing a pole? I don't want to get in trouble later if I decide to sell my house. Also, did you run the plates along the entire beam or just to the next poles? Thanks for your help.
edit: oops I guess I jumped the gun without reading the entire thread. Bad Vinnie.

 

[tonmo]

edit: never mind about the video -- perhaps I'll make another one that captures the full scene.

 

[Sev]

this is wrong. bad advice here. yes the wall near the table will bear weight if it runs perpendicular to the joists. however that lally column is holding up a beam that runs down the middle of the house that supports floor joists from both sides. if you just remove the column half of the floor joists will be unsupported over too long a span for the plain wood beam that is there. you'll need a microlam beam or a peice of steal. always recommened wood in a home.


sev are you a contractor? if so i cant believe you would recommend this. this is really dangerous advice. please dont anyone try this at home.

on the other hand we always had a little saying in the company i worked for: we love amateurs, they always brings us work in the end

brian

The lolly column does not hold the beam by itself. The beam must cover the length of the span in order to meet code.
IF the framed wall is now bearing, the column would not be needed. This is assuming that the header or beam that is currently supported by the lolly column is continuous and has been properly installed in the first place. And that the joist are running in the proper direction in relation to the wall under discussion.

Notice there is a drop ceiling in the basement. Assuming that no sheet rock exists above it verification of the existing structure and whether or not the modification is plausible would only take a very short time.

I did say say to have a contractor look at it first. Not for the home owner to go rushing into his basement and start yanking things out.

Please re read my post.

If you recall I also suggested para-lams, micro-lams and H beams as alternatives. Before you start banding insults around you many want consider reading everything in it's entirety.

 

[pocketspeed]

The lolly column does not hold the beam by itself. The beam must cover the length of the span in order to meet code.
IF the framed wall is now bearing, the column would not be needed. This is assuming that the header or beam that is currently supported by the lolly column is continuous and has been properly installed in the first place. And that the joist are running in the proper direction in relation to the wall under discussion.

I did say say to have a contractor look at it first. Not for the home owner to go rushing into his basement and start yanking things out.

Please re read my post.

If you recall I also suggested para-lams, micro-lams and H beams as alternatives. Before you start banding insults around you many want consider reading everything in it's entirety.

sev,

i did read your post. i didnt insult you. i just said your solution was wrong and dangerous, and it is. that lally column is under the carrying beam to which joists are either joined via joist hangers or are sitting on top of. the wall that is there is not meant to be a bearing wall, though if joists run perpendicular to it, it will be bearing some weight, but it is not a "bearing wall". you cant just take out that column out without replacing it with some sort of structural timber, engineered lumber, or steel.

heres what you wrote:

"Also you may not need that post anymore depending on the direction in which the joist run. You have a wall near the pool table that probably was added after the general construction was completed. This wall can be a bearing wall and be safely used to take the weight that the lolly column is supporting."

there is just no way this is a safe or correct solution. that wall cannot replace the lally column. you either need the lally column or it needs to be replaced as noted about. the wall there cannot replace the column. to do so would surely cause at the very least sagging above or at the worst structural collapse.

again i'm not trying to insult you. i'm just saying that what you propose is the wrong solution. sorry if this insults you, this is not my intent.

a reputable contractor needs to be consulted before you begin any structural work on your home. you'll also need a building permit in which the contractor will have to specify how he intends to carry the load of the house. this is the right way to ensure that you get the safe pool room of your dreams

brian

 

[Sev]

sev,

i did read your post. i didnt insult you. i just said your solution was wrong and dangerous, and it is. that lally column is under the carrying beam to which joists are either joined via joist hangers or are sitting on top of. the wall that is there is not meant to be a bearing wall, though if joists run perpendicular to it, it will be bearing some weight, but it is not a "bearing wall". you cant just take out that column out without replacing it with some sort of structural timber, engineered lumber, or steel.

heres what you wrote:

"Also you may not need that post anymore depending on the direction in which the joist run. You have a wall near the pool table that probably was added after the general construction was completed. This wall can be a bearing wall and be safely used to take the weight that the lolly column is supporting."

there is just no way this is a safe or correct solution. that wall cannot replace the lally column. you either need the lally column or it needs to be replaced as noted about. the wall there cannot replace the column. to do so would surely cause at the very least sagging above or at the worst structural collapse.

again i'm not trying to insult you. i'm just saying that what you propose is the wrong solution. sorry if this insults you, this is not my intent.

a reputable contractor needs to be consulted before you begin any structural work on your home. you'll also need a building permit in which the contractor will have to specify how he intends to carry the load of the house. this is the right way to ensure that you get the safe pool room of your dreams

brian

Point taken. I should have spent a bit more time articulating what I was presenting so as there would be no misconceptions.

And I agree. If improperly done there could be unwanted consequences.

I was only offering possible alternative solutions and I did recommend having a contractor inspecting it first. As we are not actually on site and viewing the structure at hand, but the finished living space, making an exact recommendation is impossible.
However the gentleman now has enough information that he can ask the contractor a series of questions to see what solution best suites his needs.

Do you agree?

 

[pocketspeed]

Point taken. I should have spent a bit more time articulating what I was presenting so as there would be no misconceptions.

And I agree. If improperly done there could be unwanted consequences.

I was only offering possible alternative solutions and I did recommend having a contractor inspecting it first. As we are not actually on site and viewing the structure at hand, but the finished living space, making an exact recommendation is impossible.
However the gentleman now has enough information that he can ask the contractor a series of questions to see what solution best suites his needs.

Do you agree?

yes

brian

 

[tonmo]

Well, thank you both for your input. Very helpful. Rest assured that this home owner is not rushing to do anything -- last thing I'm gonna do is do this without proper consult. But the info here is definitely helpful and I appreciate it.

 

[Paul Dayton]

I once made a 15 ounce 12" long butt for someone with a problem similar to yours. The darn thing played great.

That would solve everything but a few shots around the post.

 

[Sev]

yes

brian

Cool. Now lets go get a beer.

 

[railfirst]

says the dude who likes killswitch engage, take everysong killswitch ever makes or has made and it still wouldnt be half of shine on you crazy diamond or when the tigers broke free....ahh back when music meant something and it wasent just yelling over shitty drums.


anyway you should talk to a contractor about those walls and that pole, i couldnt seriously practice like that or play any good match ups.

good luck with your room.

youre right all KSE did was make a new kind of metal mainstream thats it, no big deal or anything...have you ever read any KSE lyrics? read them and tell me their songs mean nothing.
BTW Justin is an amazing drummer.


Ben

My Last Serenade

This revelation is the death of ignorance
Tangled in a state of suffocation
Slave to self righteousness
Damnation is on your lips
From sorrow to serenity, the truth is absolution,
From sorrow to serenity, its on your head
This is my last serenade
I feel you as you fall away
This is my last serenade
From yourself you can't run away
It's your choice, point the finger
But it's on your head
Your destination is a choice within yourself
Will you rise or become a slave
To self righteousness
Open up your heart and gaze within