What would you do?

[krupa]

Hello,

I've been using my time since I started working from (and barely leaving) my house to work on my game and try to improve my 14.1 especially. After things get back to normal, I want to find a regular 14.1 game with someone/somewhere even if it means trucking 90 minutes to Syracuse once a month or something.

Towards this end, I have been playing a lot and usually set up a break shot and run balls but when I miss, instead of just re-racking, I play the table as the incoming player. For example, if I get straight in on a break shot, I'll play safeties back and forth for a few shots. I have enough discipline to do that for maybe 5 shots and then, if nothing has really opened up, I'll rerack and start again.

So today I put myself in this position. The 6-ball is about a diamond away from the top-right corner and close but not frozen to the rail. The cue ball is not frozen to the 11 and could hit the 13 but it looked like it would scratch. I tried sending the 6 ball back down table and leaving the cueball near the head rail and failed.

Was that the right play or should I have tried something else?

 

[ChrisinNC]

Hello,

I've been using my time since I started working from (and barely leaving) my house to work on my game and try to improve my 14.1 especially. After things get back to normal, I want to find a regular 14.1 game with someone/somewhere even if it means trucking 90 minutes to Syracuse once a month or something.

Towards this end, I have been playing a lot and usually set up a break shot and run balls but when I miss, instead of just re-racking, I play the table as the incoming player. For example, if I get straight in on a break shot, I'll play safeties back and forth for a few shots. I have enough discipline to do that for maybe 5 shots and then, if nothing has really opened up, I'll rerack and start again.

So today I put myself in this position. The 6-ball is about a diamond away from the top-right corner and close but not frozen to the rail. The cue ball is not frozen to the 11 and could hit the 13 but it looked like it would scratch. I tried sending the 6 ball back down table and leaving the cueball near the head rail and failed.

Was that the right play or should I have tried something else?

Shooting the 6-ball down table looks like a dangerous shot to me - it’s a table length shot and you’re going to be jacked up some over the 9-ball. There is the potential you could errantly leave it either as a break ball or at the very least as a makeable shot for your opponent.

Did you consider thinning it off the 11-ball up the table dying it in to the side rail just past the side pocket? That likely wouldn’t have left anything more than a safety play off the 6-ball for your opponent.

 

[krupa]

Did you consider thinning it off the 11-ball up the table dying it in to the side rail just past the side pocket?

I didn't think of that. It would have been a lot better than the 6-ball. Thanks!

 

[TheBasics]

krupa, Howdy;​

How "wired" is the 12(Right corner), ball from the 11? Just a thought ...

hank

 

[noMoreSchon]

I like moving the 6 here. It isn't a difficult shot to move it to the back of the rack. Leaving the cue up table.

EDIT: I shot this shot 5 times. I sold out twice. As soon as I set it up, I realized it was not as easy as I first thought. Thinning the rack, or taking a foul is a better one, I may still move the 6, I am stubborn like that.

 

[krupa]

krupa, Howdy;​

How "wired" is the 12(Right corner), ball from the 11? Just a thought ...

hank

I don't think it was wired at all. I can't remember how I got the 13 loose but the rest of the stack is practically undisturbed. Assuming it _was_ wired, how would you shoot it? straight into the 11?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Shooting the 6-ball down table looks like a dangerous shot to me - it’s a table length shot and you’re going to be jacked up some over the 9-ball. There is the potential you could errantly leave it either as a break ball or at the very least as a makeable shot for your opponent.

Did you consider thinning it off the 11-ball up the table dying it in to the side rail just past the side pocket? That likely wouldn’t have left anything more than a safety play off the 6-ball for your opponent.

The 6 does look dangerous and I agree about the 11. You need to force your opponent to play on the 6 by hiding the 13.

Another possibility is to play a snooker-type safe on the 6 by rolling softly straight onto it. I don't think that's the shot here, but it's a move that's overlooked. It takes touch and a flat table.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I like moving the 6 here. It isn't a difficult shot to move it to the back of the rack. Leaving the cue up table.

Disagree. There are 5 possible shots off the six. All are difficult and high risk.
1. Shoot to make it, you'll clip the rack and could scratch. At least this shot has a possible reward. Too much luck involved for my taste.
2. Thin off the right side (a la Efren) very tough hit. If you err on the thin side (shoot to barely miss), it might be an ok shot. If you miss the ball it's not the end of the world. Passive shot. Not much to gain.
3. Shooting the six behind the rack is a tough to control shot as far as both the cueball and object ball control is concerned, you risk leaving the six on, or double hitting (and then God only knows what will happen). It is probably the best outcome shot, other than making the ball, but it's tough.
4. Intentionally double hitting the six and sending the cueball to the right rail as we look at it, is a very tough shot to control, you're going to leave a shot most times. Not much to gain. Very high risk.
5. Soft half ball shot off the left side of the six is going to leave a bank. Don't recommend it. It's a passive shot and leaves a good percentage make for your opponent. Not much to gain. High risk.

Kickin at the ball behind the rack is also high risk and very difficult, worse than the six ball shots imo.

I dislike all the above options. I like pushing the cueball into the rack, taking a scratch and trying to give myself some sort thin off the rack shot.

 

[ChrisinNC]

The 6 does look dangerous and I agree about the 11. You need to force your opponent to play on the 6 by hiding the 13.

Another possibility is to play a snooker-type safe on the 6 by rolling softly straight onto it. I don't think that's the shot here, but it's a move that's overlooked. It takes touch and a flat table.

The double kiss rolling very slowly straight onto the 6-ball would not be advised. Even on a perfectly level table, from that distance for that slow a speed, the ball could easily roll off just enough.

 

[sparkle84]

I think I'd play off the 1, hitting as thick as possible (looks like you can get about a 1/3 hit) sending the CB (with middle to low right) off the long then short rail and underneath the 13 as close as possible to it.
It's fairly easy to execute and you may open some balls from the rack which will make it more difficult for your opponent to deal with.
Whatever you might do playing off the 6 will leave an easy return. Same with thinning the 11 and going to the rail.

 

[The_JV]

I never get to play an opponent but my take on this game is to be passively aggressive. The idea is to force your opponent into taking a risk or sticking them in a spot where their options are limited to damage control.

Attempting something with the 6 is the exact opposite of what you should do, and exactly the position you want your opponent to be in....

I like the hit off the 1 to open up the pack and leaving the CB below/near the 13. That hit on the 1 needs to be weak enough to prevent a ball from the rack being developed into the opposite corner

 

[Poolmanis]

Shooting the 6-ball down table looks like a dangerous shot to me - it’s a table length shot and you’re going to be jacked up some over the 9-ball. There is the potential you could errantly leave it either as a break ball or at the very least as a makeable shot for your opponent.

Did you consider thinning it off the 11-ball up the table dying it in to the side rail just past the side pocket? That likely wouldn’t have left anything more than a safety play off the 6-ball for your opponent.

I like this one.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I like the hit off the 1 to open up the pack and leaving the CB below/near the 13. That hit on the 1 needs to be weak enough to prevent a ball from the rack being developed into the opposite corner

One easy response to this is to shoot the 13 up-table and preferably near a pocket and leave the cue ball frozen to the 2 ball.

It is better to find a safe for which there is no easy response.

 

[The_JV]

One easy response to this is to shoot the 13 up-table and preferably near a pocket and leave the cue ball frozen to the 2 ball.

It is better to find a safe for which there is no easy response.

interesting... I think we've wandered into the world of "what ifs" though. If by shooting the 1 and breaking open the rack toward the bottom rail, we really don't know where the 2 will be and whether or not the 7/12 will be available to the corner.

I will definitely bow to your experience though. I really don't play the game beyond attempting high runs.

 

[sparkle84]

To have the CB end up in a position where it would be possible to send the 13 up table near a pocket (which would be the top left) and also be able to freeze the CB to the back of the rack (2 or any other ball) is highly unlikely. Even if it happened you wouldn't be in any trouble. IMO it's the best option. Putting them out in open table somewhere and fairly close to the 6 gives them multiple options and accomplishes very little.

 

[ChrisinNC]

One easy response to this is to shoot the 13 up-table and preferably near a pocket and leave the cue ball frozen to the 2 ball.

It is better to find a safe for which there is no easy response.

From the angle I’m seeing, he has no hit on the 13-ball. The only balls he can hit are the 6-ball or thinning off the 11-ball or the 1-ball.

 

[Bob Jewett]

From the angle I’m seeing, he has no hit on the 13-ball. The only balls he can hit are the 6-ball or thinning off the 11-ball or the 1-ball.

I was talking about the next safety after the cue ball is played thin off the rack in the original position to go to the foot cushion where there are no shots to either foot pocket for the 13. I think the cue ball has to be left pretty near the 13 to do that and I think it leaves too many possibilities for safe.

 

[TheBasics]

I don't think it was wired at all. I can't remember how I got the 13 loose but the rest of the stack is practically undisturbed. Assuming it _was_ wired, how would you shoot it? straight into the 11?

krupa, Howdy;

Not really sure without being able to look for the spaces/kisses thought you might have checked it out
and would have been able to say yup or nope. I was only tossing out an idea that hadn't been mentioned.
I'll go sit quietly on the rail and see what goes on here.

By the way, what did happen with this?

hank

 

[krupa]

By the way, what did happen with this?

well, I didn't leave the balls in place while I waited for an answer. I tried sending the 6 back down table while leaving the cue ball up table. I ended up leaving an easy shot on the 6.

Taking into account my own ability I think the "thin the 11 and put the cueball on the long rail" option would have been best. I think any shot going towards the foot rail would have left an easier shot for my "opponent".

 

[mikemosconi]

Leaving an almost full rack( with no dead balls into a pocket) undisturbed and at the same time not providing any decent shot opportunity to your opponent is always a good safe in 14.1- I go with just moving the cue ball off the 11 to the side rail.
Always the very last thing you want to do is provide any way for the opponent to make a ball and disturb that rack. Every other option is almost always better -
The mindset one should have in 14.1 safety play is that the opponent is Mosconi- a threat to run out the game on any mistake- it puts you in the mindset of always looking to truly be SAFE as a result of your safety attempts.

Mike Sigel talked about playing with Irving Crane when Sigel was a teenager and Crane absolutely insisted that Mike play every shot like it meant the whole game, including safeties - I know it sounds stuffy and rigid- but I think that is what it takes to elevate one's game.

Greenleaf did the same with Mosconi during their exhibition tours when Mosconi was a kid- he would not give the kid an inch.