What would you teach a banger?

[Andrew Manning]

At the risk of bruising an ego or two, I can tell you that as an instructor, EVERY student I have ever worked with started at the same point in the class...working on the fundamentals of grip, bridge, stance and stroke. Until a player has solid fundamentals, speed control, tangent lines, draw, side spin, aiming, and everything else is useless. If you can't make contact with the cue ball where you need to make it, and you can't get the cue ball to go where you need it to go, nothing else is going to help.
I have worked with some very strong players, and some that were just starting out. Once we break out the video camera, every student has found at least a flaw or two that needed correction.
Without solid fundamentals, you can't get a consistant repeatable stroke, and that is the one thing we all need to have in order to improve.
Steve

And I'm sure that your method is the best for your situation, but your students are your students, and this thread was started not about students, but about novice players who want you to show them a thing or two. People who aren't going to put serious effort in the game, and people who don't want to sit through lengthy explanations of the techniques that we students of the game find so valuable.

For someone who can't hit the CB in the exact direction they want, learning directional accuracy (without any attention whatsoever to speed control, english, follow, stun, and draw) will take them from making a shot now and then to making a lot of shots in almost zero time. And for most true novice players, that's what they want. They don't want to learn position. They want to make the OB go in the hole, the tougher the shot the better. That's the game to them.

-Andrew

 

[Snapshot9]

I would just motivate

them by asking them, 'You mean this game is smarter than you are?'.

 

[Jimbojim]

I find it harder to teach someone who wants to take the game seriously but not willing to put in the hours and try new techniques...example

I have this friend who brought this new guy to the pool hall, lets call the newbie 'P'. P is a real banger and he keeps saying he wants to improve and make it into the federation next season so he started to show up more often at the poolhall and play in weekly tournaments to get some 'mileage'. My other friend (M) and I have been trying to show him some proper stance and stroke technique and run patterns with proper english. P can't make a backspin to save his life but doesn't want to practice hard enough to grasp the technique. So P calls me one day and ask if I want to shoot some so I could 'teach' him a little bit and he would learn from watching my shot selection, I actually took time to show him some exercices and some 'shots that you will encounter all the time but don't know how to get a good pose for'. After 3 or 4 tries maximum, he would say '**** off, lets play' se we played and I litteraly smoked him because you know, I was pissed...I was trying to show him stuff and he doesn't even try harder (M told me he tried too).

P bought a 500$ cue but he keeps complaining because he loses to better players and that he 'can't get used to the deflection of his cue'. Everytime he says that I always think (what the....you never put english on the CB, you put topspin on EVERY MF shot...don't tell me you can't get used to its deflection) so M and I gave up showing him stuff and just play normally hoping one day he will learn the hard way against really good players


pool teaches humility

sorry for long post, I needed to vent

 

[Russ Chewning]

Good, good! If that's the image you have then you'll be totally unprepared when I sneak up on you in a poolroom in Florida! When did you say you're coming back from Iraq?

"Come into my web", says the spider to the fly...

It was a joke, Professor...

Russ

 

[Eric H.]

maybe give a basic idea of ghost-ball aiming?

Can you elaborate on the ghost ball aiming? I'm a no0b

 

[Bob Jewett]

Can you elaborate on the ghost ball aiming? I'm a no0b

Imagine where the cue ball will be at the instant it contacts the object ball -- that's the "ghost" ball -- and put the cue ball in that location. Most players have a hard time imagining such a ghost or phantom cue ball, but it works for some people.

Usually players think that the ghost ball should be touching the spot on the object ball that is the farthest from the pocket and that's nearly true. Something called "throw" makes it not quite true. If throw is accounted for correctly, the system is guaranteed to be perfect, more or less by definition. If throw is not accounted for, the system can be off by up to 6 degrees or so.

 

[pooltchr]

For someone who can't hit the CB in the exact direction they want, learning directional accuracy (without any attention whatsoever to speed control, english, follow, stun, and draw) will take them from making a shot now and then to making a lot of shots in almost zero time.
-Andrew

And the best way to give them directional accuracy is to teach them how to move the cue stick forward in a straight line. And the only way I can think of to do that is to teach them proper fundamentals. If someone wants to learn golf, you teach them the fundamentals of the swing first. Same thing holds true for pool. The only difference is how detailed you get in your instruction.

I understand what you are saying, but there is very little that will help anyone who doesn't know how to move the cue forward in a straight line.
Steve

 

[powderburner]

First of all, the bangers know who they are...

I don't know how things are at your sewing circle, but similar "insults" are traded regularly where I hang out, and no one seems to get very asterisked about it.

Ken

Got to agree, seems like a whole lot of overly sensitive people about.

I admit it, I am a banger. I give the nine a roll every chance I get and would rather be lucky than good anyway. Might just occasionaly run three friggen balls on a good day.

I will be in Vegas next week, what will anybody spot me?

 

[Russ Chewning]

And the best way to give them directional accuracy is to teach them how to move the cue stick forward in a straight line. And the only way I can think of to do that is to teach them proper fundamentals. If someone wants to learn golf, you teach them the fundamentals of the swing first. Same thing holds true for pool. The only difference is how detailed you get in your instruction.

I understand what you are saying, but there is very little that will help anyone who doesn't know how to move the cue forward in a straight line.
Steve

It's weird.. This is something that came very naturally to me. noone ever taught me to move the stick straight, it's just something I knew I had to do. That, and hitting softly..

Hmmm.. Do you think it had anything to do with starting out with tipless aluminum sticks when I was in the Army?? NOOOO.. I'm SURE that didn't have anything to do with it.

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

Got to agree, seems like a whole lot of overly sensitive people about.

I admit it, I am a banger. I give the nine a roll every chance I get and would rather be lucky than good anyway. Might just occasionaly run three friggen balls on a good day.

I will be in Vegas next week, what will anybody spot me?

If you have to swing at the 9 every time your "on" ball has direct line-of-sight to the 9, you can get the 6.....

Russ

 

[wjpjr]

If I'm teaching I'll get them in a game of one pocket !!
If I'm gambling I'll get them in a game of one pocket !!
Eather way it's a humbling experence to a banger !!!
Bill

 

[powderburner]

If you have to swing at the 9 every time your "on" ball has direct line-of-sight to the 9, you can get the 6.....

Russ

You are on! Heck I'm liable to try three rail caroms while i'm on the 8. Uh, does that mean I get the 6, 7, 8 as wild money balls, breaks included?

I fell fairly safe being as you have a long walk to get there.

 

[VIProfessor]

"Come into my web", says the spider to the fly...

It was a joke, Professor...

Russ

I know, bro. I know.

Have a good one,

Rudy

 

[pwd72s]

Geeze...I consider myself to be a banger. I don't shoot hard, I'm trying to learn speed. But at age 64, with 20-400 in both eyes, I know I'll never have the skill of many players I've watched play. Rodney Morris possibly being the best of those. But you know, I just have fun playing...a four ball run makes me feel good. And FIVE balls? Holy krap, I'm on a roll! In a zone!

What the HELL is wrong with that? Yeah, I know I'm a lousy pool player..."just a banger". But I ask again, what's wrong with that? I'm out having fun. I'm not out looking for blood.

You know what? If I EVER found myself taking the game as seriously as some here seem to? I'd quit playing in a heartbeat.

 

[Neil]

............

 

[Cuebacca]

But you know, I just have fun playing...

and that is what pool is all about! We all have fun with this game, no matter how many balls we can run. That doesn't give you any more or less of a right to enjoy pool.

For what it's worth, from your description, I wouldn't consider you technically a "banger". I consider a banger to be someone who just looks for the closest legal ball and blasts it HARD. Bang! The most beginning stage of pool basically. Anyone who is even thinking about cueball speed for position, I think, has made it past the banger stage.

I'm not saying you can't call yourself a banger. Modesty is admirable, but in all seriousness I wouldn't consider you one. And if you were? I don't mind. I wouldn't respect you any less for it. Bangers deserve table time too. In general, I appreciate anyone who is interested in having fun by playing this game that I love so much. Please don't let anyone spoil the pleasure this game brings you.

 

[JoeyA]

Pool Etiquette

This may not have a good answer, but suppose a friend of yours doesn't have any intention of becoming serious about the game, but wants to learn a few things just for the heck of it. Is there anything you can show him or her?

I'm not really sure, maybe you can try to correct any major stroke flaws, or maybe give a basic idea of ghost-ball aiming?

WOW!
I just looked at this thread and see that 75 replies have already been made and my post probably won't be very original but I'm not going to read through the other 75 posts to find out.

If a friend of mine didn't have any intention of becoming serious about the game and still wanted to learn a few things about it just for the heck of it, I would probably teach them about POOL ETIQUETTE. You know, the finer points of hanging in a pool hall which most people who play pool regularly still don't know, like when you are getting to walk past a table don't walk right up to the table and notice that the player is stroking and getting ready to pull the trigger, so you pull the "deer froze in the headlights routine". Many people think they are doing a courtesy by walking up and FREEZING right next to the table direct in line with the shooter. Teach them where to stop or when not to stop. Teach them to inquire about the match they are looking at and show the proper amounts of consideration to the players. Teach them to place the chalk "UP" and not down. Teach or at least tell them a few of the proper things that should be done in a pool hall. Teach them about how different people feel about gambling and what the individual players are motivated by. Teach them to minimize the use of chalk or powder and the reason for needing to wash their hands or why they might want to consider wearing a glove.

It takes years to learn these things unless someone takes you under their wing and gives you a clue. Pool etiquette is something that MOST people don't have a clue about but when players see people showing it, they know it and while they normally won't verbally show appreciation for it, the players will act and treat the non-players with more tolerance and be far more friendly.

Pool etiquette can be easily utilized without ROTE learning. It can make the occasional player comfortable and confident while traveling through the unique world of pool.

Pool etiquette will make your friend's occasional romp that much more fun because others will appreciate their presence, rather than resenting it.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Descriptive Pool Names That Could Be Taken The Wrong Way.

Yup, that's right.. Because I call ALL "new" posters trolls, right?

No, I call the "new" posters who ask for non murdered elephant cues trolls.

Russ

I think the new poster above Russ referred to was a SUPER TROLL.

But just for maintaining our pool hall vocabulary:
BANGER, BALL-BANGER, FNG, NIT, NEWBIE, TROLL, POOL GROUPIE, WANNABEE, TURKEY, WHALE, LOSER, COWARDLY LION, GO-OFF, SUCKER, HAS-BEEN, TIN MAN, THIEF, RIP-OFF ARTIST, NEVER-COULD-BE, NEVER-WILL-BE, DREAMER, PARASITE, SNAKE DUNG, SNAKE, PIECE OF S**T, LOW-LIFE, LOUD MOUTH, BLOW HARD, S**T STIRRER, SPIN MEISTER, HEARTLESS MFER, JUST PLAIN HEARTLESS, BB BALLS, HEARTLESS, JUST A TALKER, ALL TALK NO WALK, BROKE D**K, BROKE, NO COUNT MFER, NUT-LOCK ARTIST, LOCKSMITH, TRAPPER, FISH, TUNA, COTTON MOUTH, BEAAAATCH, DRUG HEAD, WEED HEAD, TWEAKER, MEDICINE MAN, BUSINESS MAN, DRUG DEALER, ALL TALK, S**T HOOK, NOTHING BUT A LITTLE NOTHING, CHEAP GAS, BAD GAS, BITE MASTER, MONEY BURNER, WEASEL, C**K SUCKER, LIGHT WEIGHT, SHORT STOP, NO STOP, GAMBLER, TOURNAMENT PLAYER, PRACTICE PLAYER, NO PLAYER, MR. BYE, POOL PLAYER.
Gimme some help here.

hmmmmm? I think you have to decide for yourself if and when you want to use those terms and be prepared for a not so nice response. I think they're all describe certain people accurately but each person has to decide if and when they want to use them. They're descriptive but not particularly flattering.

JoeyA (might consider calling Russ a Blue-fin tuna)

 

[Bugz]

I'd only show him the basic basics, this order:

1. Draw / stop / follow
2. Tangent line
3. Easy banks
4. English for position off rails..... maybe.

That would be to much, thats for someone who is serious and already knows the basics.

Basics
1. stance

2. stroke

3. Let them see how the cueball acts after every type of shot with center and different stroke speeds.

When they master this, then go into the list above.

 

[Mark Avlon]

It doesn't have to be hard

I feel sorry for the guy that said "I had to go through hundreds and hundreds of hours of trial and error, failing, frustration, breaking 2 sticks (yes, I'm sorry) and so many more things for me to finally get things right. I'm so glad that was all he taught me. All that suffering I went through made me appreciate the game even more. Those who go out and buy an instructional DVD from the get go, are taking a shortcut.", and those that he tries to teach with this point of view.

The first thing I would teach a 'banger' is the value of taking a class from a BCA instructor who teaches SPF. After taking one class, the student will have the necessary knowledge and motor skills to immediately improve their game. They will also be able to continue improving their game at a fast pace through proper mechanics and 'Cenergistics'.

I'm sure students who learn SPF in short order also appreciate the game even more.