What would you teach a banger?

In order to play pool even half way decently you need to understand position. This requires practice and devotion. If your friend has no intention of investing the time and effort in this game to do those things I think I'd teach him or her how to score points in bowling then show him where a good bowling alley is.

After all, thats what people do if they can't play position. They go bowling.
 
One of the first things I would teach them is respect for players of lesser skill. Like not calling them "bangers".

Believe it or not, even people with the most mangled stroke possible have an innate sense of whether someone else respects them or not.

I believe this is the reason why a lot of these players have no interest in being offered free advice. Almost every "good" player I know that calls lower level players "bangers" has a superiority complex.

I used to call lower level players "bangers", until I started playing with players capable of winning regional tournaments.. That showed me that I was a "banger" in their eyes.

And a lot of those guys are seen as "bangers" by the guys like Harriman, Souqet, etc..

And Reyes may just see all of us as bangers...

So... You might want to reconsider your use of the word "banger". When you use it, it diminishes your respect for those players. And if you have diminished respect for those players, you might not focus in a tournament, and might lose to them.

If Reyes can learn from the most horrible players, we can too.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
One of the first things I would teach them is respect for players of lesser skill. Like not calling them "bangers".

Believe it or not, even people with the most mangled stroke possible have an innate sense of whether someone else respects them or not.

I believe this is the reason why a lot of these players have no interest in being offered free advice. Almost every "good" player I know that calls lower level players "bangers" has a superiority complex.

I used to call lower level players "bangers", until I started playing with players capable of winning regional tournaments.. That showed me that I was a "banger" in their eyes.

And a lot of those guys are seen as "bangers" by the guys like Harriman, Souqet, etc..

And Reyes may just see all of us as bangers...

So... You might want to reconsider your use of the word "banger". When you use it, it diminishes your respect for those players. And if you have diminished respect for those players, you might not focus in a tournament, and might lose to them.

If Reyes can learn from the most horrible players, we can too.

Russ
Do you ever lighten up?.:rolleyes:
 
Russ Chewning said:
One of the first things I would teach them is respect for players of lesser skill. Like not calling them "bangers".

Fair enough. I realize it has a negative connotation, but it was really meant as sort of a humorous term to describe the first stage that we all go through. Definitely no superiority complex going on here. I can barely run three fookin' balls.
 
PKM said:
Fair enough. I realize it has a negative connotation, but it was really meant as sort of a humorous term to describe the first stage that we all go through. Definitely no superiority complex going on here. I can barely run three fookin' balls.

I hear yah, brother! :D :D :D

Russ

(P.S.... Jimmy, get bent...)
 
Practice, Baby, practice...

Many years ago, I used to offer advice, but now I wait for someone to ask. The "Cueing Arts" are difficult skills to learn, and unless someone is really interested in improving, there's no point in trying to make that happen. Most recreational players are at the pool room for a little social fun and entertainment, and nothing will drag down the fun level faster than an "expert" jumping in and trying to teach someone the game.

So, I treat it like parents handle sex education for their kids. Only offer information if asked, and don't overload the person with more information than they really want or need.

I did have a genuine student a couple of years ago - a co-worker was very interested in the game, and there is an old particle board table at work, so we started playing. This wasn't a banger, this was someone who had never picked up a cue before.

I started her out with an open bridge, then concentrated on the stroke; pendulum swing in a straight line - adjust the stance until that happens naturally. Hit the cue ball in the middle. Then we just played until we had racked up a few hours of table time. This was probably the hardest part, constantly monitoring for crooked stroke, "shoulder stroking", etc. and waiting for the loose, natural stroke to "happen".

During the process, I realized that long-time players forget how difficult the basic mechanics are. Even making a good open bridge takes some getting used to, and a loose, fluid grip is not intuitive, either. Some Accu-Stat videos of Bustamante's grip helped get the idea across. I don't remember much about actually "teaching" aiming, it just happened, and that's probably for the best.

After the mechanics were down, we went into follow, draw, tangent line and speed. That was about a year ago, and she has been having a lot of fun with pool ever since. She found out that her father was quite a ball-runner when he was younger, and now they play together once a week. She comes in to work every once in a while with a story involving a party and a pool table, and how some hot-shot college athlete ended up feeling a little embarrassed.

Next project is the use of english. That should be interesting.

Ken
 
shoot softly

After reading all the replies it’s surprising that nobody mentioned too much speed. Most bangers hit way too hard. IMO, some good (and I don’t use the term good lightly) players shoot too hard when a soft shot would suffice. I’m talking about pocket speed benefiting the object ball falling and also moving the cue ball less to get shape on the next ball.

Paul Mon~~~~~not good
 
PKM said:
This may not have a good answer, but suppose a friend of yours doesn't have any intention of becoming serious about the game, but wants to learn a few things just for the heck of it. Is there anything you can show him or her? ...
Show them some trick shots they can make. There are lots of these. Try some simple propositions. The problem with trying to teach them something is that they might not be thinking of you as a teacher; they might be thinking of you as a peer.

Loan them a book on basics. Don't expect it to be returned.
 
It's funny you should ask this question. When I returned home last night, I had a message from a fellow My Spacer. I wouldn't call her a banger, but she wants to improve and is feeling a little low right now:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From:
Date: May 1, 2007 9:56 AM

hey how have things been?
I just wanted to know how I can get help with my speed control.
That's one of my biggest reasons as to why I lose.
I tested how hard/soft I have to hit the cue ball by doing the lagging thing but how can I tell how hard/soft to hit something?

I think it's like golf. And if the ball is close to the pocket, you don't really have to hit hard.

I just saw my scores on the apa site. I hate it, I am ranked the lowest.
_______________________________________________
And my reply:

From: rackmsuckr
Date: May 1, 2007 9:26 PM

Aww _____, I'm sorry about that. The good thing is that there is nowhere else to go but up!

The thing about speed is that it all depends on how full or thin you hit the ball. If you hit the edge of a ball thinly, it has nothing to slow it down, so that the same arm strength you hit a ball with full on, will take off on a thin hit. On a fast table, that can be disastrous and mean the difference between being at one end of the table or the other, much less than getting it within a couple inches.

The truth about pool is that everything about speed is learned with trial and error and hitting the shots a million times. Not very encouraging, but here's a drill that may help.

Sit a ball in the jaws of the side pocket. Put your cue ball consistently about 2 or 3 feet away from the OB (mark where the ball starts from with a wetted finger so you can recreate the starting point) and a few inches off to the side, so you can hit it full without scratching (so it will hit the rail after contact).

Now make the ball, hitting it as full and square as you can without scratching, with a medium stroke. You need to find what a medium stroke is for you, so that you can soften it to become soft, and hit it harder for a firm hit. Don't worry if you scratch or not. The purpose is to get the 'feel' of the hit and what medium is to you.

Now start from the same starting point, with the same medium stroke, but aim to hit only half of the object ball. You will see that the ball rebounds much easier (less mass to stop it) and the cueball is going to travel farther.

Now do the same thing, but only make the edge of the cueball hit the edge of the object ball. Using the same amount of force, you will see the cueball zing back and forth.

Conversely, remember this principle. The less of the object ball you hit, the more force it will take to get it to the pocket. So if you have a ball that you have to do an extreme backcut into the corner, that is even just a foot away from the pocket, you need to hit it firmly for it to make it to the pocket. Meanwhile, whitey is zooming around the table, looking for a hole to scratch in! So you have to be careful there too. Some people will bank so they can hit in a straighter line and hit the ball fuller and control whitey.

You will want to do the same drill with the object ball in the corner pockets too, so you can gauge the distance traveled up and back the table.

Of course, all cloth has a different speed, but it is critical to know how to adjust. Then there are things like English that will speed up or slow down the shot. There is also a slough (sluff) stroke that kills the ball.

And I don't know how much you play safeties, but speed is critical...either getting a ball to a rail, or hiding one or both balls.

I also visited your page. If that is a picture of you, it looks like your grip hand is too far back on the cue, which will make you come through farther or shorter, depending on your followthrough stroke, because you are already out too far. Your hand/wrist/forearm needs to be absolutely perpendicular to the floor in the ready position/stance.

I would suggest that you get a lesson from a pro or BCA instructor in your neighborhood, that will make slight adjustments to your fundamentals to make the game easier and address your speed issues.

Good luck _______, and make sure to keep me updated on your climb through the ranks!

Linda
_______________________________________

I agree with the poster that feels that playing at least 3 balls ahead is going to make the biggest difference if the player is really wanting to learn patterns and improve their game.

I help newbies out all the time in the poolroom, with specific questions. And I also give lessons and seminars that are popular with lady beginners/intermediates. I start out with a little history of the game, etiquette, and then go into the fundamentals, tangent line, etc.

We all started at the banger stage, and all can excel depending on the time put in.

She has now replied that she is finding a BCA instructor today in her area. :)
 
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You dont get better from just playing the game.

Development requires training and coaching.

If they don't listen then just tell em to quit, itll be better that way.
 
It is a given that you can only teach someone who wants to learn. The person needs to know how to make a bridge, stance (for stability and movement), and stroke. The, first thing is how to aim standing up (line up the center of the OB to the pocket. I use a 9” nail through the OB to the pocket. Stare at the shot and bend over, keep the cue under your eye and lock it there. See the CB line of travel to drive the nail. Stance is used to show how to move your body with the cue under your eye. Stroke three times and simply let it go on the last stroke. After that is mastered then we can talk about “other things.”

I am sure there are other ways, but this works for me as it teaches the person to be aware of their body and the shot and to let their body do the shooting.

It seems fundamental to me that the cue should be under the eye at all times, yet I see people moving their eye to the stick and this is backwards, at least to me.
 
Focus Please Superiority Complex

Russ Chewning said:
One of the first things I would teach them is respect for players of lesser skill. Like not calling them "bangers".

Believe it or not, even people with the most mangled stroke possible have an innate sense of whether someone else respects them or not.

I believe this is the reason why a lot of these players have no interest in being offered free advice. Almost every "good" player I know that calls lower level players "bangers" has a superiority complex.

I used to call lower level players "bangers", until I started playing with players capable of winning regional tournaments.. That showed me that I was a "banger" in their eyes.

And a lot of those guys are seen as "bangers" by the guys like Harriman, Souqet, etc..

And Reyes may just see all of us as bangers...

So... You might want to reconsider your use of the word "banger". When you use it, it diminishes your respect for those players. And if you have diminished respect for those players, you might not focus in a tournament, and might lose to them.

If Reyes can learn from the most horrible players, we can too.

Russ
Wait a sec Russ let me get this straight. :confused: Calling a new player a Banger is Taboo. But calling a new Poster a Troll is just fine. :rolleyes: :p
 
One thing I think works well for total bangers is to show them how to draw. In ten minutes or so, just about anyone can get to the point where they can draw the ball say one inch back on a short straight-in shot.

This isn't going to directly help their game because they're not going to be able to use draw effectively in any real situation. What it does, though, is it illustrates the importance of follow through and not stabbing or death-gripping. If you just tell someone about basic stroke fundamentals, it can seem abstract and often bangers will say they have their own personal technique that "works for them." Which is great if you're Mike Davis or Keith McCready or Francisco Bustamante, but not if you have a mangled banger stroke. And the inability to draw is a much more immediate illustration of stroke deficiency than just the fact that they miss a lot.
 
Russ Chewning said:
One of the first things I would teach them is respect for players of lesser skill. Like not calling them "bangers".

This is a good point, but I don't think the problem is with the word "banger," which is just part of pool lingo.

Bangers are people too, and not wanting to become a serious pool player isn't a moral deficiency. Also, you can enjoy and love the game as a banger, even if you don't practice and don't play very often.

What I disagree with is the idea that if someone doesn't want to put in the effort to get good, then "why bother" trying to help them out. Well, maybe you can show someone a few things so they enjoy their small amount of pool playing a little more. And maybe they'll be appreciative, and come to realize that there's more to the game of pool than they thought. And even if they still don't play much or work on their game, someday they could become what the game is sorely lacking, which is fans who are not serious players.
 
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rackem said:
Wait a sec Russ let me get this straight. :confused: Calling a new player a Banger is Taboo. But calling a new Poster a Troll is just fine. :rolleyes: :p

Yup, that's right.. Because I call ALL "new" posters trolls, right?

No, I call the "new" posters who ask for non murdered elephant cues trolls.

Russ
 
Banger has been a part of the pool lingo. It is a distinction or a word to identify or determine a player's playing style. Banger as defined refers to a forceful or aggressive player. so there is nothing wrong or disrespectful with that word. every pool player knows that and shouldn't be offended when referred as such. it is not the same as being referred as a "pool clown".
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
Banger has been a part of the pool lingo. It is a distinction or a word to identify or determine a player's playing style. Banger as defined refers to a forceful or aggressive player. so there is nothing wrong or disrespectful with that word. every pool player knows that and shouldn't be offended when referred as such. it is not the same as being referred as a "pool clown".

Oh, come ON. What poolplayer have you EVER met that would not get pi**ed as hell if you told them they were a banger? It's an insult, and you know it. If what you are trying to say is that you are not going to stop using the term, then fine.. Say that..

Just don't try to pretend it's not an insult.

Banger is part of the pool lingo, the way Ni**er is part of the racist "lingo".

With the current state of affairs in pool, you REALLY think we can afford to alienate the beginners?

Russ
 
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Russ Chewning said:
Oh, come ON. What poolplayer have you EVER met that would not get pi**ed as hell if you told them they were a banger? It's an insult, and you know it. If what you are trying to say is that you are not going to stop using the term, then fine.. Say that..

Just don't try to pretend it's not an insult.

Banger is part of the pool lingo, the way Ni**er is part of the racist "lingo".

With the current state of affairs in pool, you REALLY think we can afford to alienate the beginners?

Russ

In the interests of kindness and gentleness, let me limit myself to saying, Russ, that I don't think this is an apt comparison. One term is used to dehumanize an entire race of people, while the other is an admittedly unflattering but accurate description of how some people play the game of pool. These two terms are miles apart in terms of their intent and their historical context, and IMHO you shouldn't even have used them in the same sentence.

To illustrate, every player was once a banger, and a banger can become a 'player' with improvement. How do we 'niggers' stop being 'niggers' in the the minds of the racist dogs who use the term?
 
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