Whats the deal with bumpers?

[Exile]

Hi guys,

I live in England and play on 7x4ft English tables with 2in balls. We generally use 17-18oz cues with 8-9mm tips and the better cues are generally 1 piece or 3/4 split. The only cues that you ever see over here that use bumpers or pads are the cheap £25 mass manufactured 'tat' that get imported from the far east. No self respecting player of any skill level would ever consider using one of these cues. The top playing cues 9 times out of 10 have a brass plate or insert in the butt that allows for a screw in extension.

So what I'm wondering is this;

Why are bumpers ALWAYS used on your American cues, even the mega $$$ ones?

This might seem like a stupid question (and I apologise if it is) to you guys but I just don't see the point when they aren't necessary (or are they?)

I hope someone can enlighten me with knowledgeable responses. :thumbup:

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help me understand this.

Exile

 

[Exile]

Here is the type of butt cap finish used on 'real' English pool/snooker cues.

Hope it helps

 

[conetip]

The main reason I think, Is because American players in general, hold the cue butt to the floor and some like to lightly bouce the cue.
Where as, in New Zealand for example, I noticed tonight, most people rest the cue on the toe of their shoe.
Neil Lickfold now in New Zealand

 

[Exile]

Conetip,

I hear what you're saying but in the UK it is also custom to give a few taps on the floor in recognition of your opponents good shot.

Another tradition among the hot headed players is to slam their cue butt first into the floor and i mean SLAM it. This is where i guess bumpers might help but this apparent disregard for the cue still doesnt damage it. I've never seen any damage in the butt due to this.

Any other suggestions?

 

[macguy]

Hi guys,

I live in England and play on 7x4ft English tables with 2in balls. We generally use 17-18oz cues with 8-9mm tips and the better cues are generally 1 piece or 3/4 split. The only cues that you ever see over here that use bumpers or pads are the cheap £25 mass manufactured 'tat' that get imported from the far east. No self respecting player of any skill level would ever consider using one of these cues. The top playing cues 9 times out of 10 have a brass plate or insert in the butt that allows for a screw in extension.

So what I'm wondering is this;

Why are bumpers ALWAYS used on your American cues, even the mega $$$ ones?

This might seem like a stupid question (and I apologise if it is) to you guys but I just don't see the point when they aren't necessary (or are they?)

I hope someone can enlighten me with knowledgeable responses. :thumbup:

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help me understand this.

Exile

Aside from the obvious, the bumper does make a cue sound different. It seems to have a more solid sound. Remover the bumper of most cues and when you hit a ball with it, it will sound different almost broken at times. Pool cues and snooker cues and players are different in other way as well. Snooker cues have brass ferrules and snooker players don't seem to care much about dressing their tips. I was at the Crucible one year and I was shocked to see the best snooker players in the world and many had raggedy looking tips hanging over the edge of the ferrule. I also saw cues with chipped and cracked butts they were playing with, so I guess maybe it would be a good idea for some of them to have bumpers. Snooker cues tend to have an overall beat up look to them. Little to no finish, shafts all stained with chalk and rough looking in general. Pool players on the other hand like to keep their pool cues clean and as pristine as they can. Two quite different philosophies when it comes to their cues.

 

[Exile]

Aside from the obvious, the bumper does make a cue sound different. It seems to have a more solid sound. Remover the bumper of most cues and when you hit a ball with it, it will sound different almost broken at times. Pool cues and snooker cues and players are different in other way as well. Snooker cues have brass ferrules and snooker players don't seem to care much about dressing their tips. I was at the Crucible one year and I was shocked to see the best snooker players in the world and many had raggedy looking tips hanging over the edge of the ferrule. I also saw cues with chipped and cracked butts they were playing with, so I guess maybe it would be a good idea for some of them to have bumpers. Snooker cues tend to have an overall beat up look to them. Little to no finish, shafts all stained with chalk and rough looking in general. Pool players on the other hand like to keep their pool cues clean and as pristine as they can. Two quite different philosophies when it comes to their cues.

I think i have to both agree and disagree on this one. This might sound a little disjointed but i'll try my best to explain.

generally...we don't get as fussy over what a cue looks like as long as it plays well. I myself play with a very plain looking cue but I'm regularly winning or placing in tournaments and consistently finish with an 80%+ win rate for the 3 leagues i play in (isn't the result more important the coming second but doing it with a pretty bit of wood?).

It's just this bumper thing that i find a bit out of place. As i said its only the cheap ass cues over here that use the bumpers and i'm wondering if it is because the ash is such low quality that you need the bumper to help with the sound as you say. This leads me to wonder if some of your high quality American cues could play as well without the bumper? I had a good look around the Black Boar website and first let me say wow :bow-down::bow-down::bow-down:. I see he has a rigorous material selection process and i would have thought that if the materials were so good that a bumper would be redundant? (just me thinking out loud here).

Now addressing the sound issue. Do you think that maybe having 200+ inlays could alter the properties of the cue? I only ask because English cues don't have inlays so i have no idea

I'm wondering if it could also be a traditional thing like the wedge on the bottom of our cues. Most people don't realise that it is what was used as a mace to strike the ball in the early days of cue sports. This was before the advent of the leather tip. Even though this method of moving the ball is no longer used, the mace is still featured on every cue i have ever used/seen.

So far i think the sound deadening explanation seems to have the most substance, but i'd like to hear from some old school cue makers as well. Has anyone made an American cue without a bumper and if so did it hit well, sound ok, etc???

Cheers,

Exile

 

[Paul Dayton]

Inlays have no effect on the playability or sound of a cue. We used to have a wedge cut out on the butts of cues but in the late 1800.s it disappeared as it became obvious that the Mace was dead. A few makers have used this decorative device in tribute cues but as it serves no useful purpose and limits the decorative possibilities in the butt sleeve, it is very rare.

Bumperless cues were the standard into the early 70's and are noticeable for their sharp ping sound. It is more work to incorporate a bumper. As for brass end plates, that is typically an English tradition and since American tables are three feet to five shorter than snooker tables it greatly reducing the need for extensions.

Finally, custom American cues are produced in a very, very different fashion than high end English snooker cues and the physical dynamics of the games mandate different cues to play them optimally.

 

[MVPCues]

I think i have to both agree and disagree on this one. This might sound a little disjointed but i'll try my best to explain.

generally...we don't get as fussy over what a cue looks like as long as it plays well. I myself play with a very plain looking cue but I'm regularly winning or placing in tournaments and consistently finish with an 80%+ win rate for the 3 leagues i play in (isn't the result more important the coming second but doing it with a pretty bit of wood?).

It's just this bumper thing that i find a bit out of place. As i said its only the cheap ass cues over here that use the bumpers and i'm wondering if it is because the ash is such low quality that you need the bumper to help with the sound as you say. This leads me to wonder if some of your high quality American cues could play as well without the bumper? I had a good look around the Black Boar website and first let me say wow :bow-down::bow-down::bow-down:. I see he has a rigorous material selection process and i would have thought that if the materials were so good that a bumper would be redundant? (just me thinking out loud here).

Now addressing the sound issue. Do you think that maybe having 200+ inlays could alter the properties of the cue? I only ask because English cues don't have inlays so i have no idea

I'm wondering if it could also be a traditional thing like the wedge on the bottom of our cues. Most people don't realise that it is what was used as a mace to strike the ball in the early days of cue sports. This was before the advent of the leather tip. Even though this method of moving the ball is no longer used, the mace is still featured on every cue i have ever used/seen.

So far i think the sound deadening explanation seems to have the most substance, but i'd like to hear from some old school cue makers as well. Has anyone made an American cue without a bumper and if so did it hit well, sound ok, etc???

Cheers,

Exile

There are exceptions, but pool cues are generally not made from ash. So, your suspicion that US pool cues need bumpers because the ash used in them "is such low quality" is obviously wrong.

There are pool cues made without bumpers sometimes, typically ones with a Hoppe style butt cap. That style can be quite attractive.

Macguy gave some good information. The fact that the only snooker cues that have bumpers are cheap cues has no bearing on the quality of custom pool cues that sport a bumper.

Kelly

 

[Exile]

There are exceptions, but pool cues are generally not made from ash. So, your suspicion that US pool cues need bumpers because the ash used in them "is such low quality" is obviously wrong.

There are pool cues made without bumpers sometimes, typically ones with a Hoppe style butt cap. That style can be quite attractive.

Macguy gave some good information. The fact that the only snooker cues that have bumpers are cheap cues has no bearing on the quality of custom pool cues that sport a bumper.

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

I didn't mean that your cues are low quality ash. I meant that's what our cheap ass ones are made from and why they might need bumpers, not yours. I know you guys prefer Maple and high quality at that.

I did a search for 'Hoppe' style butt caps and found what you meant. So assuming that these cues play well and are resilient enough to wear and tear/damage do these Hoppe cues support the suggestion that bumpers aren't necessary and may be more of a traditional thing? What i mean is if you put a bumper on a hoppe cue would it increase its performance or simply help with the tapping on the ground and splitting issue?

I know you can't compare a £25 snooker cue to a $5000 custom pool cue, I understand that would be like comparing a firework to a ballistic missile. What i'm asking is if the top custom masterpieces are so good do they really NEED bumpers or is it just routine (like the mace on the butt of our cues)? Like i say, our cheap cues NEED bumpers but our high end ones don't.

It kinda like our cheap cues need to be totally varnished and clear coated to stop the cheap ash from warping/splitting but our expensive cues use oils that are buffed into the wood. Much nicer stroke over the bridge without the fear of warping or splitting.

P.S. I'm crap with words and explaining what i'm trying to say, but will try my hardest to be as clear as possible.

Cheers,

Exile

 

[KJ Cues]

Hi guys,

So what I'm wondering is this;

Why are bumpers ALWAYS used on your American cues, even the mega $$$ ones?

This might seem like a stupid question (and I apologise if it is) to you guys but I just don't see the point when they aren't necessary (or are they?)

I hope someone can enlighten me with knowledgeable responses. :thumbup:

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help me understand this.

Exile

The bumper on American cues serves multi-duty.
Primarily it protects the butt of the cue.
It also has a dampening effect on 'rebound resonance'.
As the cue ball is struck with the tip of the cue, a vibration is initiated at the tip and travels down the length of the cue. This is what we refer to as the 'hit' of the cue; how it feels as that vibration passes your grip hand. The rubber bumper at the butt of the cue is absorbing the vibration at the end of it's travel and thereby reducing the vibration that now wants to travel back up the cue (rebound resonance). In theory anyway.
If you know about this then you can attempt to 'fine tune' the hit of the cue.
Now, a question for you : Why do you guys drive on the other side of the road? That's the nasty thing about tradition, but sometimes, that's just the way it is.

 

[Newton]

I have been in UK a lot and I would for sure back KJ on the tradition issue.
There is a lot in each end which is tradition and I think you could see some
of them in pool/snooker as well.

You have small pool tables, small balls and pub rules which only apply in UK I've tried them ...
We have other traditions so it's apples and pears comparing.

Much has been said about the bumper part and I think it's mostly explained.
Table size are smaller as mentioned and we therefor don't need the brass
inserts to make extensions. However, you could get both , extension AND bumper
on pool cues if you like one. Just ask a custom cue maker to make you one
or buy one of the Predator ones (which works only on Pred/Mezz cues).

K

 

[MVPCues]

Hi Kelly,

I didn't mean that your cues are low quality ash. I meant that's what our cheap ass ones are made from and why they might need bumpers, not yours. I know you guys prefer Maple and high quality at that.

I did a search for 'Hoppe' style butt caps and found what you meant. So assuming that these cues play well and are resilient enough to wear and tear/damage do these Hoppe cues support the suggestion that bumpers aren't necessary and may be more of a traditional thing? What i mean is if you put a bumper on a hoppe cue would it increase its performance or simply help with the tapping on the ground and splitting issue?

I know you can't compare a £25 snooker cue to a $5000 custom pool cue, I understand that would be like comparing a firework to a ballistic missile. What i'm asking is if the top custom masterpieces are so good do they really NEED bumpers or is it just routine (like the mace on the butt of our cues)? Like i say, our cheap cues NEED bumpers but our high end ones don't.

It kinda like our cheap cues need to be totally varnished and clear coated to stop the cheap ash from warping/splitting but our expensive cues use oils that are buffed into the wood. Much nicer stroke over the bridge without the fear of warping or splitting.

P.S. I'm crap with words and explaining what i'm trying to say, but will try my hardest to be as clear as possible.

Cheers,

Exile

Sorry for the misunderstanding regarding the ash comment.

The bridge area of a quality pool shaft is not finished or varnished over either.

A hoppe style butt cap without a bumper will still get marred over time. They look great, especially the kind with the polished metal screw in the base. But over time, if the particular owner does not take great care, it will take some abuse from a hard floor and it will show. I am not saying it will break or split, but it will not remain pristine. Pool cue collectors and some players are very picky. My playing cue is about 17 years old, and it looks like it could have been made last year. I personally would still recommend a recessed bumper for some protection for a hoppe style cue I was building.

Read what KJ said about absorption/dampening. That is one of the uses of the bumper.

Read what Dayton said about the fact that snooker cues and pool cues are produced differently. Diameters are different. Tapers are different. Construction of the butt is different. Components are different. There are different construction types from pool cue to pool cue. Some butt constructions in pool cues may benefit more from a bumper than others.

Without an indepth study of various constructions and comparing physical parameters of snooker cues and pool cues, and without having experience in playing with both types of cues, you may just have to accept some of what you are told at face value.

By the way, you say your cheap cuess NEED bumpers, but your high end ones don't. How do you know? I have 2 questions for you.

Have you removed the bumper from the cheap cue to see how exactly it is needed and how it plays differnetly?

Have you added a bumper to a quality snooker cue to see how it changes things and to see what benefits it may add?

Without doing those two things and having a firm grasp on what a bumper may or may not add to the equation of a snooker cue, it may be difficult for you to understand all the potential reasons why a pool cue may or may not need a bumper.

Kelly

 

[netspec]

on a side note to this thread - I've seen some snooker cues come with a leather bumper.

 

[cueman]

Brass is your end protection for the cue. But Brass ends never caught on here, just as rubber bumpers never caught on there. We can reach shots on our 9 foot tables without an extension, so we don't really need the insert in the end. I have played in some very old pool rooms in the US with wood floors. And you can see dents all in the floors from where people used to tap the bottom of their bumperless cues into the floor. So I would guess that pool room owners liked it when rubber bumpers came out. I also own some very old bumperless cues and the plastic material placed on the end is scatched up and often chipped. So the rubber bumper keeps the cue looking good and keeps the floors looking good. So in my opinion they are a good thing as they do two good things right there. Now your brass ends may protect your cue, but I feel real sorry for those pool room owners that might have hardwood floors.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I think i have to both agree and disagree on this one. This might sound a little disjointed but i'll try my best to explain.

generally...we don't get as fussy over what a cue looks like as long as it plays well. I myself play with a very plain looking cue but I'm regularly winning or placing in tournaments and consistently finish with an 80%+ win rate for the 3 leagues i play in (isn't the result more important the coming second but doing it with a pretty bit of wood?).

It's just this bumper thing that i find a bit out of place. As i said its only the cheap ass cues over here that use the bumpers and i'm wondering if it is because the ash is such low quality that you need the bumper to help with the sound as you say.
Exile

this actually caught my off guard a little. we don't see a lot of cues with ash here in the states.

i guess it's just the way we get down here in the states. i personally would never buy a cue that didn't have a bumper. if my opponent makes a good shot i'll usually tap my cue and say good shot and i'd hate to see something i've spent cash on get damaged because of that.

and if i make a mistake sometimes i put my cue down pretty rough and swear loud enough for anyone within 20 ft to hear me. i guess if you want to get technical about it it's you guys in the UK that do things strange. cues made everywhere else in the world all come with rubber bumpers. P.I., usa, japan etc every cue i've seen made outside the uk all come with rubber bumpers.

i guess it's just because you're billiards games are more tied to snooker than everyone else's

 

[Exile]

To Everyone who has posted,

Thanks for taking the time to explore this question, your efforts are greatly appreciated.

As a round up i'm getting that it's a combo of traditions, customs and the resonance effect.

I must admit i have not used a bumper cue since my early playing days but i think i might install one on a cue that i am in the process of making.

Cheers to all,

Exile

 

[cueman]

Inlays have no effect on the playability or sound of a cue. We used to have a wedge cut out on the butts of cues but in the late 1800.s it disappeared as it became obvious that the Mace was dead. A few makers have used this decorative device in tribute cues but as it serves no useful purpose and limits the decorative possibilities in the butt sleeve, it is very rare.

QUOTE]
Paul,
Some cues only put the flat on the back of cues for looks. But it really did have a purpose on some cues. Some manufacturers cut the wedge at just the right angle so you could lay the cue on the table and press down on the back end and it would lift the tip up exactly on the center of the cue ball. This allowed you to shoot shots that would be hard to reach even with a bridge comfortably. Long ago I had a BCE (Billiard Cues of England) snooker cue that was made that way, and I was informed then of the angle of the wedge and it's purpose.

 

[QMAKER]

Snooker cues

QUOTE]
Some cues only put the flat on the back of cues for looks. But it really did have a purpose on some cues. Some manufacturers cut the wedge at just the right angle so you could lay the cue on the table and press down on the back end and it would lift the tip up exactly on the center of the cue ball. This allowed you to shoot shots that would be hard to reach even with a bridge comfortably. Long ago I had a BCE (Billiard Cues of England) snooker cue that was made that way, and I was informed then of the angle of the wedge and it's purpose.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Chris, that is interesting and informative. I have some snooker cues
here and thought the wedge was used to line up the cue in the same manner everytime. It just goes to show that the only things really worth knowing are those things you learn after you think you know it all.

Take care, Bob

 

[Paul Dayton]

Out of curiosity I took three old house cues I have from the 19th century, pressed the wedge flat on a surface and measured the height of the center of the tip off the table. One was 2 3/4 inches, one was 3 3/4 inches and the oldest was 4 1/2 inches. All of which are above the top of a ball. The information you were given may have been accurate as far as a particular snooker cue was concerned but it still would have been impossible to control the aim and for it to be a standard technique for snooker cues would have required a level of precision in the manufacturing would have been very hard pressed to meet.

The Mace was the original source for the flat.

 

[cueman]

Out of curiosity I took three old house cues I have from the 19th century, pressed the wedge flat on a surface and measured the height of the center of the tip off the table. One was 2 3/4 inches, one was 3 3/4 inches and the oldest was 4 1/2 inches. All of which are above the top of a ball. The information you were given may have been accurate as far as a particular snooker cue was concerned but it still would have been impossible to control the aim and for it to be a standard technique for snooker cues would have required a level of precision in the manufacturing would have been very hard pressed to meet.

The Mace was the original source for the flat.

Actually, it was pretty easy to slide the cue straight and make shots with the BCE cue I had. Your aim line was very good using that method. I knew that all wedge cues were not made that accurately, as I have checked others that were not.