Whats the difference between RED, BLACK and BLUE label Diamond tables?

Sorry for the rant.....
This explains why I didn't like the D9' I played on recently. Very sluggish. The D7's I play on bank a half diamond short. The Hall has 9 of the 7 footers and all bank a half diamond short. To agree with Dr. Dave.....that is a design flaw plain and simple. The diamond system has worked pretty well for a lot of decades and then diamond shows up designs the perfect pool table except for the design flaws.
It has been noted that diamond must be better because they are in high demand over GC's. That is complete CRAP! I have competed at a professional level in competition shooting and the amateurs want what the pros are using. Some of the most popular equipment in the shooting industry was absolute junk. But if u sponsor enough shooters and enough matches and you give your equipment away to the pros...everybody wants one. Not to mention if u supply tables for all the pro tournaments then the pros have to have one to practice on.
Diamond has taken over because they improved some of the weaker qualities in the Brunswick tables and did so about the time Brunswick no longer really cared about their product and walked away from support of pro tournaments. Perfecting timing on Diamond's part.

Here is my prediction.....there is a huge company building some very technically advanced tables.
They have been featured in some of the biggest matches in the world......
Imperial has there own slate mine! The Rasson tables are very nice and Rasson(Imperial) has enough money to bury diamond any time they want to. I predict in a few years Rasson will be the table of choice. If you don't think the Chinese can build high quality, beautiful things you are wrong!
 
What does banking short have to do with it being 'sluggish' as you put it? Nothing. The older Red label tables did bank short. My room had eight of them and they all were that way. Wasn't a huge issue and we all adjusted to it. The Blue label versions that i've played on have all played fine. Different than a GC? Yes but very good, true playing tables.
 
Alabama8Ball said:
Sorry for the rant.....
This explains why I didn't like the D9' I played on recently. Very sluggish. The D7's I play on bank a half diamond short. The Hall has 9 of the 7 footers and all bank a half diamond short. To agree with Dr. Dave.....that is a design flaw plain and simple. The diamond system has worked pretty well for a lot of decades and then diamond shows up designs the perfect pool table except for the design flaws.
It has been noted that diamond must be better because they are in high demand over GC's. That is complete CRAP! I have competed at a professional level in competition shooting and the amateurs want what the pros are using. Some of the most popular equipment in the shooting industry was absolute junk. But if u sponsor enough shooters and enough matches and you give your equipment away to the pros...everybody wants one. Not to mention if u supply tables for all the pro tournaments then the pros have to have one to practice on.
Diamond has taken over because they improved some of the weaker qualities in the Brunswick tables and did so about the time Brunswick no longer really cared about their product and walked away from support of pro tournaments. Perfecting timing on Diamond's part.

Here is my prediction.....there is a huge company building some very technically advanced tables.
They have been featured in some of the biggest matches in the world......
Imperial has there own slate mine! The Rasson tables are very nice and Rasson(Imperial) has enough money to bury diamond any time they want to. I predict in a few years Rasson will be the table of choice. If you don't think the Chinese can build high quality, beautiful things you are wrong!
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Imperial is just the US distributor. I've talked to a couple US Mosc.Cup players about the Rasson and they said the one's they've played on were horrible. Could very well be the set-up but they had nothing good to say about them. Said that some of the Euros said same thing. They use them because Rasson is an equipment sponsor for MRSport. Watch the shot that Szewczyk tries at the WPM in '17. Shoots it straight in the side and it hops straight out. Joke.
 
I didn't day Rasson made a world class table. I said they are made by the largest billiard mfg in the world and have some pretty advanced features. In fact, my point is with the depth of their financial pockets it won't matter how good they are if the company starts unloading cash and tables to the pros. It isnt right but it is the way the world works.....and if a company that big with that much money started actively recruiting input from top pros, they have the money and the resources to build one the best tables in the world. They made many improvements in the Victory II. Dont underestimate the Chinese. They have built their country stealing and in some cases improving technology of all types. They have almost unlimited financial resources. Diamond is a nice table but they need to clearly be the best table in the world or the Chinese will recruit who they have to and spend what they must to bury another American company. I don't want to see that happen!
 
Alabama8Ball said:
I didn't day Rasson made a world class table. I said they are made by the largest billiard mfg in the world and have some pretty advanced features. In fact, my point is with the depth of their financial pockets it won't matter how good they are if the company starts unloading cash and tables to the pros. It isnt right but it is the way the world works.....and if a company that big with that much money started actively recruiting input from top pros, they have the money and the resources to build one the best tables in the world. They made many improvements in the Victory II. Dont underestimate the Chinese. They have built their country stealing and in some cases improving technology of all types. They have almost unlimited financial resources. Diamond is a nice table but they need to clearly be the best table in the world or the Chinese will recruit who they have to and spend what they must to bury another American company. I don't want to see that happen!
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I could not care less about the rest of the world. Diamonds and B'wick GC's(Chinese table btw) will always be the table in the US. I don't see Rasson ever being big in poolrooms over here.
 
Interesting thread for a beginner .. have a Diamond 8' table being delivered on Tuesday, March 2nd. It is the last one of the furniture model tables Diamond had as they ceased manufacture of the "furniture model" line at the end of 2019. Aaron at Diamond confirmed it was built to the "Blue Label" spec .. so it will be interesting to see how the table plays next Tuesday evening!!
 
The big take away is this... If you need to resort to banking to win your match. You're doing it wrong. Regardless of the table manufacturer ;)
 
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The_JV said:
The big take away is this... If you need to resort to banking to win your match. You're doing it wrong. Regardless of the table manufacturer ;)
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That's pretty myopic.

Balls will rebound in all games and there certainly are games where bank shots are a regular choice.
 
289FIA said:
Yeah ... I was recalling that Efren Rayes bank shot I say on Youtube. Seems like a decent player.
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He used to be pretty good.

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fastone371 said:
Red label Diamonds are generally the older ones, they have a different sub-rail angle causing them to bank short and cause the rails to play real "springy".

Blue label Diamonds are the current tables coming from Diamond, they have the updated sub-rail angles making them bank longer and the rails do not play real "springy" like the red label Diamonds.

Red label tables can be converted to blue label by replacing the top of the table. As far as Dymondwood I understand that the factory burned down a little while back so there are not many if any at all Dymondwood tables being made, it has nothing to do with red and blue label differences.
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I've played on red label diamonds that dont play springy and I've played on some that do. I'm not sure what is up with those tables but every table in the hall played the same rail wise and the rails were not fast vs another hall in the same area that every table the rails were super fast. And I do not think the rails were converted because the table still banked very short.
 
pw98 said:
I've played on red label diamonds that dont play springy and I've played on some that do. I'm not sure what is up with those tables but every table in the hall played the same rail wise and the rails were not fast vs another hall in the same area that every table the rails were super fast. And I do not think the rails were converted because the table still banked very short.
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Maybe a difference in the age of the cloth?? I play at 2 places that had blue and red labels next to each other, you could definitely tell that the red label was faster and banked shorter.
 
Black-Balled said:
That's pretty myopic.

Balls will rebound in all games and there certainly are games where bank shots are a regular choice.
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lol... sure if that's what you want to call it. (and yes I had to google that)

If your playing a game that's not bank pool, and you're playing shape for banks on a regular basis. Then you're doing it wrong. Still near sighted..?
 
The_JV said:
😆... sure if that's what you want to call it. (and yes I had to google that)

If your playing a game that's not bank pool, and you're playing shape for banks on a regular basis. Then you're doing it wrong. Still near sighted..?
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One pocket!!!:LOL:
 
fastone371 said:
Maybe a difference in the age of the cloth?? I play at 2 places that had blue and red labels next to each other, you could definitely tell that the red label was faster and banked shorter.
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While the cloth on the faster table was newer I dont think it was the cloth, there was definitely a big difference in the amount of energy absorbed by the rails.
 
fastone371 said:
Maybe a difference in the age of the cloth?? I play at 2 places that had blue and red labels next to each other, you could definitely tell that the red label was faster and banked shorter.
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That was due to the wrong sub-rail angle. That's what they changed on the Blue label.
 
pw98 said:
While the cloth on the faster table was newer I dont think it was the cloth, there was definitely a big difference in the amount of energy absorbed by the rails.
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garczar said:
That was due to the wrong sub-rail angle. That's what they changed on the Blue label.
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I understand that, if you read the post that I quoted maybe that will put my answer in context for you.

This was my reply on the first page of this thread.

fastone371 said:
Red label Diamonds are generally the older ones, they have a different sub-rail angle causing them to bank short and cause the rails to play real "springy".

Blue label Diamonds are the current tables coming from Diamond, they have the updated sub-rail angles making them bank longer and the rails do not play real "springy" like the red label Diamonds.

Red label tables can be converted to blue label by replacing the top of the table. As far as Dymondwood I understand that the factory burned down a little while back so there are not many if any at all Dymondwood tables being made, it has nothing to do with red and blue label differences.
Click to expand...
 
fastone371 said:
I understand that, if you read the post that I quoted maybe that will put my answer in context for you.

This was my reply on the first page of this thread.
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You said something about cloth. When worsted is brand new and slick a table will play long but once broken in the the angles stay the same. Another factor that's downplayed by some is the weather. I live in a fairly humid place and balls often bank really shot and fast when the humidity gets high.
 
garczar said:
You said something about cloth. When worsted is brand new and slick a table will play long but once broken in the the angles stay the same. Another factor that's downplayed by some is the weather. I live in a fairly humid place and balls often bank really shot and fast when the humidity gets high.
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I agree with what you say, most people have noticed these differences but it still does not apply to my response in another post.
 
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