What's with pool leagues?

[14oneman]

I often wondered why, with the success of TAP, APA, etc., offering all sorts of 8 and 9 ball leagues, can't one of them offer a 14.1 league?

Has the once greatest championship game of pool from a by-gone era fallen that far off the radar?
Is it because they feel they can't fill a roster of teams, because the game gets no real exposure from professional billiard events, especially televised ones, and new shooters have no exposure or knowledge of the game?

It seems to me that anyone who shows an interest in pool, if shown 14.1, would fall madly in love with the game. I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm just gettin' old. :shrug:

 

[Skess]

I hear ya! I've been trying to get a 14.1 league going locally for over a year.

I had Kevin (14and1.com) send me the startup info and I began recruiting. All I needed was eight individuals that wanted to play. After a little recruiting, I had 8 players that said they were interested. Problem was, I couldn't find a night that any/everyone could show.

Locally, we have leagues (TAP, APA, local) every night of the week except Friday night. I figured that I would set one night a week for matches, but if the individual players wanted to play a different night that week, I was fine with that. Even that didn't work.

I've been really busy lately with work, but I'm not giving up. A lot of league people/teams take off the summer session, so I'm hoping that I can hook some of them to try a session of my 14.1 league. I'm hoping that after giving the game a try, they will get hooked like me and stay on.

 

[Highmiles]

Time.
That's why 9-Ball is so popular. Imagine a couple of players ranked as 2s playing to 150. Now multiply by 5 players on a team. Do you want your league "night" to start at 7PM on Thursday, and end at 9PM on Friday?

 

[14oneman]

Time.
That's why 9-Ball is so popular. Imagine a couple of players ranked as 2s playing to 150. Now multiply by 5 players on a team. Do you want your league "night" to start at 7PM on Thursday, and end at 9PM on Friday?

Well, you make a very valid point, but certainly something can be done, no?

How about playing to points more in line with their skill level?

Lets take for example, the couple of players ranked as 2's that you mentioned. It's quite possible that they are not even capable of running even one rack of balls, so make their match to 25 or 30 points.

The higher your skill level, the more points you play to, with only the "A" players going to 100 or 150.

In the case of two people of dis-similar skill levels playing against each other, they only play to the points they are ranked to. A top ranked player still has to go to 100, while the "2" only has to go to 30, or whatever is determined for that players ranking?

At least it would be worth trying in my opinion, to keep the greatest pool game ever invented, alive and kickin'! :thumbup:

 

[Winston846]

You wouldn't be able to have a 14.1 league in a bar. It would have to be in a pool hall so that several matches could be going simultaneously. Plus, the average bar banger just does not have the patience for 14.1, plain and simple. They also will not like a game where they can't just smash into the balls and let them fall where they may. That is why the APA is so immensely popular.

 

[Highmiles]

Well, you make a very valid point, but certainly something can be done, no?

How about playing to points more in line with their skill level?

Lets take for example, the couple of players ranked as 2's that you mentioned. It's quite possible that they are not even capable of running even one rack of balls, so make their match to 25 or 30 points.

The higher your skill level, the more points you play to, with only the "A" players going to 100 or 150.

In the case of two people of dis-similar skill levels playing against each other, they only play to the points they are ranked to. A top ranked player still has to go to 100, while the "2" only has to go to 30, or whatever is determined for that players ranking?

At least it would be worth trying in my opinion, to keep the greatest pool game ever invented, alive and kickin'! :thumbup:

You are on the right track. I have played in informal groups set up like a league. Races were all to 25, with no handicapping. It still ran on long into the night. ....... but only because we were having too much fun to quit.

 

[dmgwalsh]

14.1 Leagues in Chicago

We've got a few leagues going in the Chicago area.

We had 24 players starting out in the last Red Shoes League. Handicaps from 50 (minimum) to 195. We would play 2 games a night, each player going to their respective handicaps. For anyone over 150, we drag them down to 150 and bring the other player down the same percentage. By agreement the players can play to any percentage of their handicaps they choose.

We will be starting up again the beginning of April but may opt for two smaller leagues, so they will not take so long to complete.

The Illinois Billiards Club has a similar format but with two separate leagues. Tuesday is the 45-100 league. (Sometimes they end up higher than 100) Thursday is the 80-200+ league. (The 80 on Thursday is probably stronger than the 100 on Tuesday) Some of the Tuesday guys come over to Thursday for a session. Some of them run back to Tuesday the next session because the Thursday guys are too serious. Others love making the move and try to learn.

Anyway we ended up with 16 on Thursday last session after a few quit and 18 on Tuesday.

There seems to be more and more interest in the game and the leagues at least in our area. Red Shoes also has some handicapped tournaments and some guys cannot commit to the leagues but like to play in the tournaments once in a while.

 

[mnhighrunlist]

Our league started out 5 years ago with only 6 players. The current session has 23 players spread over 2 divisions. We use a handicap system and games are played from 120-175 points. The support of the poolroom (Shooters Billiard Club) for this league has been great.

14.1 is finding a place here....but as an individual, not team based league.

-Dennis

 

[14-1StraightMan]

14.1 League

There are different ways to run a 14.1 League.
If there is a pool room in your area, put a sign up sheet on the bulletin board and see if there are any takers after a week or two.

First: A league can be run by a handicap system. Lets say, there are 15 players who signed up. All with different skill levels.
Make the A players go to 150 points.
B players go to 100 points
C players go to 75 points.
Pick a day of the week, Thursday, start at 8pm, one match per week. (this will get the players out of there by no later then 11pm) Right in line with any other type of leagues that are played. The league would run for 14 weeks.

Second: If there is a large amount of players. Then the league should be broken down to skill divisions. A's play A's, etc.

Third: A league can be played by handicap or not. By not having a special night to play the match. Each player has to play 3 to 4 players per month.
They set up their own match appointment for each week. Score sheets are turned in and results are posted. (Internet & bulletin board)

I hope this all helps. The league might start out small but after awhile it will grow with interest.

 

[14oneman]

You wouldn't be able to have a 14.1 league in a bar. It would have to be in a pool hall so that several matches could be going simultaneously. Plus, the average bar banger just does not have the patience for 14.1, plain and simple. They also will not like a game where they can't just smash into the balls and let them fall where they may. That is why the APA is so immensely popular.

I agree with you. The world NEEDS bar room bangers, just like the world needs someone to dig ditches. Straight Pool is not for everyone, and I'm certainly not trying to convert everyone that plays pool to 14.1, but there are a fair number of new shooters, after discovering their love for pool, truly have a desire to get to the next level and become a better player and move past the "bar bashing". It's those individuals that would benefit most by learning 14.1. No other game will improve one's overall skill better, and it will have a positive affect on their game, regardless of what their favorite game is.

My $0.02, anyway.

 

[Winston846]

There was a league in Ashland that tried to start about 2 years ago. I played, but after the first 3 or 4 weeks, it was becoming a burden for me because of the distance. For me, Ashland is about a 50 mile one way drive. But, they don't really need a league there. 14.1 is the game of choice there for about 90% of the players, so it's never hard to find a game there.

 

[Wink]

I just started a league here in Chicago (with Dennis Walsh & Rich Klein's assistance).

We are doing this:
WITHOUT a pool hall
WITHOUT a set night

In essence, run much like a tennis league, opponents determine when and where they will play each week.

I had 16 sign up immediately, and we ended up with 12 that actually committed and are starting. Handicapped format using the IBC/RedShoes handicapping system.

I looked a the 14and1.com system, and it just didn't work for me. Kevin was very helpful though, and it may work well for others.

BTW - OUR league has NO fees, no money to win, and no trophies.

Since we have no home pool hall, we named it the Chicago Nomads 14.1 League.

Hope that it works out well.

 

[14oneman]

There was a league in Ashland that tried to start about 2 years ago. I played, but after the first 3 or 4 weeks, it was becoming a burden for me because of the distance. For me, Ashland is about a 50 mile one way drive. But, they don't really need a league there. 14.1 is the game of choice there for about 90% of the players, so it's never hard to find a game there.

That's so ironic that you mention Ashland, because Ron F just told me about the place. Sounds like a 14.1 players dream come true. I'm going to try to make it up there one day soon. Apparently it's about half way between Ron and I, so we are going to try to make a day of it sometime in the near future.

 

[14oneman]

Anyway, thanks to the guys with successful leagues, for sharing your experiences. I just wish the 14.1 scene was as thriving in my neck o' the woods, as it apparently is in yours! :thumbup:

 

[selftaut]

Well, I guess I will chime in here since I can add some first hand insight to the question(s). Team play is pretty much out in 14.1 league play, unless something is formed such as alternating shots from players on each team and they play 1 or 2 games or something like that. But that format would not be true to the game itself. Many leagues, such as mentioned in the thread, do play on different nights and such to allow the facility to accomodate the league, some leagues run on home tables etc..etc..all kinds of formats all around the country are currently playing league 14.1, and enjoying every minute of it. 14and1.com, now in its 4th season and will be hosting our 4th Nationals in September 2011, is something I put together to give players the platform to enter into the game, for both experienced and not experienced 14.1 players alike. The intention to boost exposure to the game. I am happy to say that over the last 3+ years I have had some degree of success bringing new players to the game, but a long way to go for sure. I have had so many inquiries request a start-up package to start a league that I truly lost count a long time ago, to every state in the country as well as Japan, Canada, Germany, but every year I seem to get a few more requests for start-ups, which leads me to believe interest in the game is growing. Only a small percentage of these requests actually form the league, but the ones that do wind up really liking the game and can't wait to get going the next session or next year. I assume many many of the system packages I send out are just to get their hands on the system just to use it for their own use, and not sanction and send players to our nationals, as many I never hear from again, and I know they are running the league, as I have their players email me questions..lol... But to be honest, I don't really care, if it got a league formed somewhere and exposed the game to more players then so be it. It was never formed to be a money making proposition like APA..etc..etc..14and1.com Leagues have no weekly fee, only if they want a prize pool locally, they have a weekly fee to create that prize pool, which I don't get involved with. There is a $15 player member sanction fee that goes directly into paying for our nationals.

Getting back on subject, there are many more 14.1 leagues running around the country than most would think, as I have had discussions with many of them over the years. And many great people who love the game pour their time into keeping leagues going, just for the love of the game. All kinds of handicap systems out there, but if you boil it down and generalize it, they are all not to far off each other, the experienced players wind up higher handicaps and the inexperienced wind up lower handicaps. But all leagues together are achieving the same goal, keeping the game alive and well!

Kevin Vidal
President
14and1.com

 

[topcat1953]

14.1 League

Many years ago there was a straight pool league in Central PA. In fact, I believe the name of the League was the Central Pennsylvania Traveling Straight Pool league. Each team consisted of two shooters. The teams played out of Clubs, Bowling Alleys and Pool Rooms. I believe I played in this League from the 1976/77 season to the 1983/84 season, which was the last one. The format was tht each player shot a 150 point game against one player from the other team. Then those players would rotate and shoot another 150 points against the other team player.
Each game represented a point. The combined total points for each round represented a point and the total points from all games shot.

When I started in this League, my team played out a bowling alley with 6 Gold Crowns. We playd at Strap's Lunchenette in Wrightsville, with two tables in the backroom, the Yankee Club in York, with 4 Brunswick Centennials, the Viking Club in York with two Gold Crowns, the Hanover Home Association with two Gold Crowns, Hub City in Shippensburg, with one Gold Crown and 4 or 5 other antique Brunswicks. Later years we played at the Texas Cue Club in Cockeysville, the Casino in Harrisburg and the Cue Corner in Downingtown.
This was a scratch league held on Sundays and most of the time the matches drew a small crowd of spectators. The shooters who represented each Team generally were the best from their area. Guys like John Humbert, Bob McGlaughlin, Brad Regonthall, Randy Young, Duke Bayman, Earl Mummert, Kenny Kauffman, Tom Manley, Charlie Mundis, Andy Toth, to name a few. The high run annually was never less than 70 and usually around 100 or more.

The trophy, which traveled to the winning team's host location, was a World 9-Ball Championship Trophy donated to the League by Jim Rempe.

This League not only taught one how to play, but you soon learned the rules and how to use them, plus the strategies of holding your opponent to a certain score in order to win a match. And, very importantly, you learned pool ettiquette.

A little story, I was in a match at the Italian Club in Hershey. My partner had lost 150-127. In order to win a point, I had to hold my opponent to less than 127. I was in the 130's and my opponent had about 123 or 4. We were in a safety battle to try and gain control of the rack. I lost the safety battle and my opponent begain to fire the balls in. He was clearing the balls off nicely when he got a bit out of line. While cutting his next ball into the corner pocket, the cue ball proceeded to rebound off the long rail and started heading towards the side pocket where he was standing. Almost shockingly, as the ball drew closer to going into the side pocket where he was standing, my opponent sticks his hand into the side pocket and catches the cue ball. At the time, this was a 15 point penalty. When my opponent realized what he had just done, he was furious. We deducted the points and he did not score again as I closed out the game. What a game. He went from being a winner to a loser in seconds.

This League ran for 15 years or more.
It is too bad that it is so expensive to travel and the poolrooms and clubs have become more sparse.
But this format worked for a long time.

 

[stevekur1]

Many years ago there was a straight pool league in Central PA. In fact, I believe the name of the League was the Central Pennsylvania Traveling Straight Pool league. Each team consisted of two shooters. The teams played out of Clubs, Bowling Alleys and Pool Rooms. I believe I played in this League from the 1976/77 season to the 1983/84 season, which was the last one. The format was tht each player shot a 150 point game against one player from the other team. Then those players would rotate and shoot another 150 points against the other team player.
Each game represented a point. The combined total points for each round represented a point and the total points from all games shot.

When I started in this League, my team played out a bowling alley with 6 Gold Crowns. We playd at Strap's Lunchenette in Wrightsville, with two tables in the backroom, the Yankee Club in York, with 4 Brunswick Centennials, the Viking Club in York with two Gold Crowns, the Hanover Home Association with two Gold Crowns, Hub City in Shippensburg, with one Gold Crown and 4 or 5 other antique Brunswicks. Later years we played at the Texas Cue Club in Cockeysville, the Casino in Harrisburg and the Cue Corner in Downingtown.
This was a scratch league held on Sundays and most of the time the matches drew a small crowd of spectators. The shooters who represented each Team generally were the best from their area. Guys like John Humbert, Bob McGlaughlin, Brad Regonthall, Randy Young, Duke Bayman, Earl Mummert, Kenny Kauffman, Tom Manley, Charlie Mundis, Andy Toth, to name a few. The high run annually was never less than 70 and usually around 100 or more.

The trophy, which traveled to the winning team's host location, was a World 9-Ball Championship Trophy donated to the League by Jim Rempe.

This League not only taught one how to play, but you soon learned the rules and how to use them, plus the strategies of holding your opponent to a certain score in order to win a match. And, very importantly, you learned pool ettiquette.

A little story, I was in a match at the Italian Club in Hershey. My partner had lost 150-127. In order to win a point, I had to hold my opponent to less than 127. I was in the 130's and my opponent had about 123 or 4. We were in a safety battle to try and gain control of the rack. I lost the safety battle and my opponent begain to fire the balls in. He was clearing the balls of nicely when he got a bit out of line. While cutting his next ball into the corner pocket, the cue ball proceeded to rebound off the long rail and stated heading towards the side pocket where he was standing. Almost shockingly, as the ball drew closer to going into the side pocket where he was standing, my opponent sticks his hand into the side pocket and catches the cue ball. At the time, this was a 15 point penalty. When my opponent realized what he had just done, he was furious. We deducted the points and he did not score again as I closed out the game. What a game. He went from being a winner to a loser in seconds.

This League ran for 15 years or more.
It is too bad that it is so expensive to travel and the poolrooms and clubs have become more sparse.
But this format worked for a long time.

Wow, that sounds great !!! excelent way to meet and play different players !!

I just wonder if something like that would work today.....Hmmmmmm (scratching head)

-Steve

 

[14oneman]

Many years ago there was a straight pool league in Central PA. In fact, I believe the name of the League was the Central Pennsylvania Traveling Straight Pool league. Each team consisted of two shooters. The teams played out of Clubs, Bowling Alleys and Pool Rooms. I believe I played in this League from the 1976/77 season to the 1983/84 season, which was the last one. The format was tht each player shot a 150 point game against one player from the other team. Then those players would rotate and shoot another 150 points against the other team player.
Each game represented a point. The combined total points for each round represented a point and the total points from all games shot.

When I started in this League, my team played out a bowling alley with 6 Gold Crowns. We playd at Strap's Lunchenette in Wrightsville, with two tables in the backroom, the Yankee Club in York, with 4 Brunswick Centennials, the Viking Club in York with two Gold Crowns, the Hanover Home Association with two Gold Crowns, Hub City in Shippensburg, with one Gold Crown and 4 or 5 other antique Brunswicks. Later years we played at the Texas Cue Club in Cockeysville, the Casino in Harrisburg and the Cue Corner in Downingtown.
This was a scratch league held on Sundays and most of the time the matches drew a small crowd of spectators. The shooters who represented each Team generally were the best from their area. Guys like John Humbert, Bob McGlaughlin, Brad Regonthall, Randy Young, Duke Bayman, Earl Mummert, Kenny Kauffman, Tom Manley, Charlie Mundis, Andy Toth, to name a few. The high run annually was never less than 70 and usually around 100 or more.

The trophy, which traveled to the winning team's host location, was a World 9-Ball Championship Trophy donated to the League by Jim Rempe.

This League not only taught one how to play, but you soon learned the rules and how to use them, plus the strategies of holding your opponent to a certain score in order to win a match. And, very importantly, you learned pool ettiquette.

A little story, I was in a match at the Italian Club in Hershey. My partner had lost 150-127. In order to win a point, I had to hold my opponent to less than 127. I was in the 130's and my opponent had about 123 or 4. We were in a safety battle to try and gain control of the rack. I lost the safety battle and my opponent begain to fire the balls in. He was clearing the balls of nicely when he got a bit out of line. While cutting his next ball into the corner pocket, the cue ball proceeded to rebound off the long rail and stated heading towards the side pocket where he was standing. Almost shockingly, as the ball drew closer to going into the side pocket where he was standing, my opponent sticks his hand into the side pocket and catches the cue ball. At the time, this was a 15 point penalty. When my opponent realized what he had just done, he was furious. We deducted the points and he did not score again as I closed out the game. What a game. He went from being a winner to a loser in seconds.

This League ran for 15 years or more.
It is too bad that it is so expensive to travel and the poolrooms and clubs have become more sparse.
But this format worked for a long time.

Great story! Thanks for sharing Topcat! Too bad I didn't live in PA at that time, because I sure would have loved to be a part of something like that.

Will those days ever come again, or are they lost forever? God only knows, I guess.