What's with the pumping stroke?

bluepepper said:
It looks to me like a subtle up-and-down car-jacking motion. But it is small compared with the others. So I guess he's a bad example.
Jeff

If you keep your upper arm perfectly still, and swing just your lower arm like a pendulum - the "textbook" stroke - with a loose grip that doesn't do anything to manipulate the path of the cue, the cue will have a small wobble to it. If the middle of the pendulum, or vertical to the ground, is the lowest point in the pendulum, then going both back and forward, the butt end of the cue must go up. The only way to stop that that would be to manipulate the cue using your wrist and/or upper arm.

IMO, Miz's stroke was pretty much textbook.
 
Catahula said:
I would gather from your signature that you play golf as I do. I am curious if you apply the same thinking and technique to your putting stroke while playing golf?
My guess is that you do not. My feeling is that a lot of the same type of muscle memory is shared in both putting and a billiard stroke.
It has always been driven into me that your actual stroke should be a replication of your practice stroke.
Just curious because I am always open to new ideas.

I guess i should have described my pool practice stroke better. What I do is start of with a large, fast, whippy, almost circular motion and gradually work my way down to a fine tuned stroke. It works very well for me.

When putting I use a similar practice stroke, i step into position take a few longer strokes making sure that the putter head is not opening or closing at all. then gradually working my way to a fined tuned copy of the stroke i will use in my shot. It's not as noticeable of a difference in golf but I do use the same technique to loosen myself up and get in rhythm.

It will work for some, and not for others. I can't tell you why I ever even tried it but I am sure glad I did. :)
 
I think its nothing more than establishing a rythem and routine. I think an apt comparison is a basketball player shooting a free throw. A lot of players have unique pre-free throw routine, but it when it comes to the shot... they have classic text book form. The routine may vary from the number of dribbles they take(and the dribble doesn't effect the shot taken from a technical standpoint,) to other weird rituals... to each their own. I think in both cases, basketball and pool, players are just establishing a routine that makes them feel mentally comfortable prior to the shot.

Another great example from basketball not relating to free throws... would be Jordan dunking with his tongue out. Or the weird sh** he'd do with his hips, before he'd shoot a turnaround jumper. I don't know why he stuck his tongue out when he dunked, other then it became a routine and it made him feel more comfortable/confident... gave him an identity so to speak. And who's going to argue with the mechanics of Jordan? The same goes for pool players of Efrens, Bustamantes, or Mizeraks level. I suppose the same comparisons could be made for a baseball hitters batting stance, or a pitchers pitching stance... etc, etc, etc...
 
Last edited:
JIMMY M -- EXACTLY!

Visualize the pushrod attached to the drivewheel on a steam locomotive. (granted-the pushrod 'pushes and pulls" the wheel at the attachment point to the wheel thru the bottom 180 degrees of rotation) as in the pendulum stoke-where at the bottom of the stoke- the cue(pushrod) is level at contact with the CB, passing thru the bridge (pivot point); on the back stroke, the hand raises and the tip lowers-as the stroke passes bottom on the forward stroke the hand raises and the tip lowers again. Lowering the shoulder going forward seems to move the bottom of the stoke 'forward' keeping the shaft level longer going thru the ball IMO. BTW JIMMY I've seen you play at SHOOTERS labor day a couple of times. Pretty sporty.

3railkick/Bill

EDIT: Sorry about this-been drinking and playing with toy trains
 
Last edited:
It's about style ... a signature. We were all taught proper penmanship, but how do you sign your name? Who taught you that? I think it comes out naturally at some point for anybody who's any good at anything (and I'm not necessarily including my own pool game here!). Charlie Parker had a sound and so did Coltrane, and there's no mistaking them. Van Gogh painted the way he had to, and so did Picasso. I think it goes for bartenders and pool players, too.

Not often is a poem called for on AZB, but I think we need a dose of Bukowski's "Style" ...

Style is the answer to everything.
Fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous day.
To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without style.
To do a dangerous thing with style, is what I call art.
Bullfighting can be an art.
Boxing can be an art.
Loving can be an art.
Opening a can of sardines can be an art.
Not many have style.
Not many can keep style.
I have seen dogs with more style than men.
Although not many dogs have style.
Cats have it with abundance.

When Hemingway put his brains to the wall with a shotgun, that was style.
For sometimes people give you style.
Joan of Arc had style.
John the Baptist.
Jesus.
Socrates.
Caesar.
Garc?a Lorca.
I have met men in jail with style.
I have met more men in jail with style than men out of jail.
Style is a difference, a way of doing, a way of being done.
Six herons standing quietly in a pool of water, or you, walking
out of the bathroom without seeing me.
 
smashmouth said:
Fundamentals vs quirky pros? hmmmm

Emulate quirky styles all you like, ya'll ain't Efren nor SVB

What does emulation have to do with it?

Nothing at all!

In fact the main drawback to having that type of pre shot routine is that it draws attention to who ever is doing it. No one that is trying to make money wants to be noticed by everyone. I don't know anyone who has this type of routine because they want to look like someone else. There are advantages for some people and that is why they do it. Plain and simple
 
Travis Bickle said:
It's about style ... a signature. We were all taught proper penmanship, but how do you sign your name? Who taught you that? I think it comes out naturally at some point for anybody who's any good at anything (and I'm not necessarily including my own pool game here!). Charlie Parker had a sound and so did Coltrane, and there's no mistaking them. Van Gogh painted the way he had to, and so did Picasso. I think it goes for bartenders and pool players, too.

Not often is a poem called for on AZB, but I think we need a dose of Bukowski's "Style" ...

Style is the answer to everything.
Fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous day.
To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without style.
To do a dangerous thing with style, is what I call art.
Bullfighting can be an art.
Boxing can be an art.
Loving can be an art.
Opening a can of sardines can be an art.
Not many have style.
Not many can keep style.
I have seen dogs with more style than men.
Although not many dogs have style.
Cats have it with abundance.

When Hemingway put his brains to the wall with a shotgun, that was style.
For sometimes people give you style.
Joan of Arc had style.
John the Baptist.
Jesus.
Socrates.
Caesar.
Garc?a Lorca.
I have met men in jail with style.
I have met more men in jail with style than men out of jail.
Style is a difference, a way of doing, a way of being done.
Six herons standing quietly in a pool of water, or you, walking
out of the bathroom without seeing me.

Nice. Bukowski had style. I loved his epitaph. It's like a Zen koan to me:
"Don't Try"
 
The pumping stroke is simply the modern-day version of the old slip-stroke. Instead of reaching back on the cue for the final stroke, the shooter now keeps the same grip position and adds a loop on the back swing. This has a few advantages. The main one is that a pause on the backstroke is not as critical.
 
8ballEinstein said:
The pumping stroke is simply the modern-day version of the old slip-stroke. Instead of reaching back on the cue for the final stroke, the shooter now keeps the same grip position and adds a loop on the back swing. This has a few advantages. The main one is that a pause on the backstroke is not as critical.

I forgot about the slip-stroke. Yeah, I see what you mean.
Jeff
 
bluepepper said:
It looks like half the players play with what looks like a circular choo choo train stroking of the cue. Lots of filipino players seem to do this, as well as some of the old schoolers as well, like Mizerak. What's the reason for this technique?
Thanks,
Jeff
IMHO one thing that vertical axis "pumping" accomplishes is reduction of side to side movement of the cue tip. If the shaft is oscillating up and down, it's less likely to also be oscillating side to side. Side to side is death to accuracy.
 
fan-tum said:
IMHO one thing that vertical axis "pumping" accomplishes is reduction of side to side movement of the cue tip. If the shaft is oscillating up and down, it's less likely to also be oscillating side to side. Side to side is death to accuracy.

Certainly works with a spinning wheel. Riding a bicycle with no hands for example. Or a spinning coin. Good observation.
Jeff
 
that's the gyroscope effect and only works for rapidly spinning wheels. won't apply to a pool stroke, just because you have lots of up and down tip movement, doesn't mean you'll have less side to side
 
this thread needs to be split into 2 beliefs...

1 stroke purists....mechanical thinkers who feel everything must be just so, or the machine breaks down.

2 feel players....like me, who could care less what it looks like, but more about how it feels and where the ball is going.

who is who? ask yourself this....your going to shoot a difficult shot, what goes through your head before the shot? is it...stay down, good mechanics, focus, follow through?.....or is it....I need to hit this shot so it feels like "X" and sounds like "X"

make any sense?
 
Gerry said:
this thread needs to be split into 2 beliefs...

1 stroke purists....mechanical thinkers who feel everything must be just so, or the machine breaks down.

2 feel players....like me, who could care less what it looks like, but more about how it feels and where the ball is going.

who is who? ask yourself this....your going to shoot a difficult shot, what goes through your head before the shot? is it...stay down, good mechanics, focus, follow through?.....or is it....I need to hit this shot so it feels like "X" and sounds like "X"

make any sense?

Yes. Makes very good sense.
Thanks,
Jeff
 
1 stroke purists....mechanical thinkers who feel everything must be just so, or the machine breaks down.

2 feel players....like me, who could care less what it looks like, but more about how it feels and where the ball is going.

It's obvious that the game can be played successfully with many different strokes. But we can't teach new players every style and we can't teach them nothing. The classical form is the shortest distance between here and there, the simplest movement(s) that produce the desired outcome, so, simplicity being best for consistency, it's the obvious starting point for teaching a stroke. Personal idiosyncracies are what the player adds.

pj
chgo
 
JoeyInCali said:
Mizerak had a pump stroke?
He barely moved his hand.

It had to be the slow cloth and humidity in the Philippines. After so many years of playing here and on Simonis, Efren lost his bicycle stroke.

For sure on Mizerak - I prob saw him shoot like 2k balls - not
one time did he 'pump' the cue.

Did the OP mean "pimp" stroke?

Dale
 
Back
Top