When an employee 'hooks you up' on table time, do you tip them extra?

[tablerunna]

I have worked part time at a pool hall through two different owners, both owners have said the same thing, if people are playing pool and their bar tab is up there discount the table. It tends to make people happy when you tell them the table was half price and they come back more often.

 

[Alf Taylor]

A little off subject, but...

When I was a kid, before I got in the racket, I traveled the road with my brother Jack. In a ring nine-ball game somewhere in the Rio Grande Valley, Jack won pretty good. I saw him tip the rack boy five dollars (pretty good for the 50s) and I told him "Jack. Nobody tips these guys." He replied "That's exactly why I do".
I took that same thinking to Morocco and started an import business on it.
Thou shall not steal...nor judge those who do.
Keep it like your grandmother was watching you. Alfie

 

[Tobermory]

I always say the same thing to the guy at the counter when he tells me my bill for the time: "It's an outrage, but I'll pay anyway." Yeah, an "outrage." I play seven hours and my bill is something like $27. Does anyone know another leisure activity with an hourly rate like that? I think the counter man gets the idea that I am being ironic. He waits for my complaint and looks at me impassively. He never cuts me any slack. On occasion, if my bill is large and the owner is on the counter, he'll knock a couple of bucks off. I hope he doesn't do it because he thinks I'm serious!

I pay full fare at that room with a smile in my heart. I want that room to stay in business, and I want the owner to charge whatever he needs to have it do that. I live in fear and trembling that it may someday close and I will have to find another and it will have liquor, large TV screens, guys looking for girls and girls looking for guys, rap on the jukebox, and maybe even smokers.

I've never been in a really good pool room that served liquor, except in Europe.

 

[ronscuba]

Wow, a lot of criticism in this thread.

When I get a free drink or a discount on my table time or get moved up in the wait list, how do I know if it is with or without the owner's consent ?

I am not in the restaurant or pool hall business, but I imagine owner's do have rules and guidelines about these kind of things. Many managers in any business are given authority to use their judgement on when and how to comp a customer.

A business owner needs regulars. They really like regulars that spend money on drinks, food and bring in friends. Why wouldn't an owner want to comp a good regular customer ?

 

[Rain-Man]

I agree with you on it should be up to you to give away the freebies. What I disagree with is you taking it upon yourself to rat on an employee of an establishment and get them fired for trying to be nice and give more alcohol in your drink. Its not up to to be a police and get them fired. Sooner or later the employer will find out on his own what is going on.

Well, I guess im from a different school of thought. Im not old by any means (38), but I was raised up that theft was theft, the price of the theft does not matter. I was always taught that a thief was just about the lowest form of life. I know a lot of people in todays entitlement society believe they should have whatever it is they want, when they want it, and who cares who is going to ultimately have to pay for it. I guess im in the minority that believes if I want something, I'll earn it. If I buy something, I'll pay for it.... If we were at a pool hall and I didnt know you at all, and I saw some guy go in your bag when you went to the restroom and take a piece of chalk and just walk away, Id feel obligated to at least ask you if you knew that guy when you came back. If you said "no", Id tell you what he did. If you said "ya, thats my buddy", Id say "oh, ok, cause I wasnt sure, cause he just went in your bag when you stepped away and grabbed something, just wanted to make sure". I think you'd appreciate the "good look out". And if that guy really did just steal f
something from you, even a .40 cent piece of Masters, who to say that is all he has taken from people in the hall when they werent looking? Do you really want this scub bag to be allowed to stay there? I wouldnt, get his sorry ass out...

 

[CreeDo]

What I disagree with is you taking it upon yourself to rat on an employee of an establishment and get them fired for trying to be nice and give more alcohol in your drink.

I guess you got banned but in case you're reading anyway... I don't want to get someone fired, so I'll give the employee a chance by talking to them directly. But if they choose to ignore that chance and I feel the owner's really getting screwed, I'll say something to him. I might not give him specific names, and instead just say something like "you might want to talk to your employees about giving away free table time, I've seen it a few times now."

Wow, a lot of criticism in this thread.

When I get a free drink or a discount on my table time or get moved up in the wait list, how do I know if it is with or without the owner's consent ?

Often they will inform us in a stage whisper "hey I hooked you up on the time, don't tell [manager or owner's name]." I also know one guy who outright bribed an employee - gave him a flat 200 bucks or something in exchange for a lifetime of 'preferential treatment'. No sane owner is ok with this.

Again, freebies are fine as a business practice IF the owner knows.

Thou shall not steal...nor judge those who do.

Sorry Alfie! Gotta disagree with the whole "you can't judge me!" philosophy. We pass judgment on other people all the time, it's part of being human. If you ever called someone a name, or passed up a hitchhiker because he looked shady, you made a judgment. And that's ok. Judgment is a survival instinct.

 

[Cory in DC]

I always say the same thing to the guy at the counter when he tells me my bill for the time: "It's an outrage, but I'll pay anyway." Yeah, an "outrage." I play seven hours and my bill is something like $27. Does anyone know another leisure activity with an hourly rate like that? I think the counter man gets the idea that I am being ironic. He waits for my complaint and looks at me impassively. He never cuts me any slack. On occasion, if my bill is large and the owner is on the counter, he'll knock a couple of bucks off. I hope he doesn't do it because he thinks I'm serious!

I pay full fare at that room with a smile in my heart. I want that room to stay in business, and I want the owner to charge whatever he needs to have it do that. I live in fear and trembling that it may someday close and I will have to find another and it will have liquor, large TV screens, guys looking for girls and girls looking for guys, rap on the jukebox, and maybe even smokers.

I've never been in a really good pool room that served liquor, except in Europe.

7 hours for $27 is about $4.00 per hour, not too bad in my opinion. That's about the same as a movie, less than golf, and probably comparable to bowling. If you want cheap, try darts!

Correction: My mistake. Reading more carefully, you were saying that $27.00 is a good deal. I agree.

 

[BullBuchanan]

I guess you got banned but in case you're reading anyway... I don't want to get someone fired, so I'll give the employee a chance by talking to them directly. But if they choose to ignore that chance and I feel the owner's really getting screwed, I'll say something to him. I might not give him specific names, and instead just say something like "you might want to talk to your employees about giving away free table time, I've seen it a few times now."




Often they will inform us in a stage whisper "hey I hooked you up on the time, don't tell [manager or owner's name]." I also know one guy who outright bribed an employee - gave him a flat 200 bucks or something in exchange for a lifetime of 'preferential treatment'. No sane owner is ok with this.

Again, freebies are fine as a business practice IF the owner knows.




Sorry Alfie! Gotta disagree with the whole "you can't judge me!" philosophy. We pass judgment on other people all the time, it's part of being human. If you ever called someone a name, or passed up a hitchhiker because he looked shady, you made a judgment. And that's ok. Judgment is a survival instinct.

CreeDo, I think a lot of the information added in subsequent posts would have been really helpful in the first. The original post omits information that opens up very different characterizations about what happened, but then again there wouldn't be much of a thread if you asked, "Should I provide cutbacks to people who steal on my behalf?"

That being said, I like where the conversation went without it, and I think it lead to a much more interesting perspective on what people feel is right/wrong, how to run a successful business, and the nature of entitlements.



As an aside, I've never seen anyone go out of business because of theft. If an owner of a business can't even tell when he's being stolen from, he'll likely run himself out of business soon enough. It certainly doesn't make it right to steal, but his doors are closing up someday regardless of what you do.

 

[CreeDo]

CreeDo, I think a lot of the information added in subsequent posts would have been really helpful in the first. The original post omits information that opens up very different characterizations about what happened, but then again there wouldn't be much of a thread if you asked, "Should I provide cutbacks to people who steal on my behalf?"

lol, that woulda been a pretty nice way to title it.

To be honest at the time I posted, I had no idea that the owner might voluntarily give his employees permission to give away table time, I was thinking it was 100% without his knowledge.

When someone suggested he might be ok with it, I had to stop and think (usually a good thing)... then I was able to remember "oh yeah, but I've heard so-and-so ask us not to tell the owner".

If I had never heard them say that, then I'd be have to admit that maybe it was done with the owner's sanction, and I was jumping to conclusions. I can always just ask the owner outright.

I wonder if the 'occasional freebie' system is more hassle than it's worth. I know some people will be so impressed by the concept of "free" that they return to the place and become regulars. But there's the danger someone will start to feel entitled and get pissed when asked to pay for something that is often (but not always) free. And you can't really budget for it. Rather than get a $7 for free half the time, I'd rather pay a predictable $3.50 every single time. Then there's no guesswork, no danger of butthurt, and the accounting is easy for both me and the owner. I don't want my bill to be a random number every week.

 

[Rain-Man]

Agreed

The OP didn't clarify exactly in the first post what he actually ment, but he did make it clear a short time later that he was specifically addressing the point of the employee giving away stuff for free (or a discount, same thing really) on their own, without out the owners consent, and for their OWN BEHALF in the form of expecting better tips..
I havent heard anyone yet say that it isnt good business practice to reward your (good) customers with a freebie here and there every now and then. And yes, sometimes owners will give their managers the latitude to comp things to good customers (my Managers have this leeway). I think we all agree that that is just good business, and the customer appreciates small acts like this and will keep them coming back. Im sure in this type of situation, no one here will turn down the gesture..
But the OP specifically said in a post a short time later, he was sure the employee was doing it ON THEIR OWN, and for THEIR OWN FINANCIAL BENEFIT. This is what I find wrong, and appalling. Pouring "heavy" drinks, giving free beers, or free/discounted table time, is STEALING, PERIOD. It is NOT theirs to give away, especially for their own benefit.. Now, if this same employee really wanted to "do something nice" for you, they can take their OWN tip money and buy you that beer, or pay for some of your table time. That would truly be an act of "doing something nice" for you, but their reason for "hooking" you up ISN'T to do something nice for you. Its to get you to tip them better at the expense of the unaware owner.. Thats crap. ..

Very good topic though, and it is sometimes eye opening to hear the views of other who do not agree with you on things. :thumbup:

 

[ronscuba]

......
I wonder if the 'occasional freebie' system is more hassle than it's worth. I know some people will be so impressed by the concept of "free" that they return to the place and become regulars. But there's the danger someone will start to feel entitled and get pissed when asked to pay for something that is often (but not always) free. And you can't really budget for it. Rather than get a $7 for free half the time, I'd rather pay a predictable $3.50 every single time. Then there's no guesswork, no danger of butthurt, and the accounting is easy for both me and the owner. I don't want my bill to be a random number every week.

I am a regular at 3 different pool halls. They each have certain perks for their league players, such as free table time during certain hours. This is a published perk that all league players know about.

Their definitely are some people who always complain about something, give the management and staff a hard time. I never understood how someone could complain about getting something free.

I am thankful to have a nice clean place to play pool with high level tables, balls and a polite staff. I firmly believe in supporting the people and businesses that cater to my pool hobby. Order drinks, food, tip well. The current economy is tough. I want to do my part to keep their business alive and well.

 

[xplor]

Walking around downtown Vegas I saw a parking structure stacked floor to ceiling with white business style boxes marked Comps. They must have a bad business plan.

 

[Rain-Man]

Walking around downtown Vegas I saw a parking structure stacked floor to ceiling with white business style boxes marked Comps. They must have a bad business plan.

Not really sure what your implying here, but the consensus here has been that everyone agrees that it IS good business practice for the "house" (Owner or authorized manager) to comp some freebies now and then to their good customers. I think we all agree there.. The topic of discussion is about employees (usually the bartenders, or counter person) giving out freebies on their own without the knowledge of the owner(s), and doing so not for the success of the business, or "doing somethin nice", but for their own personal gain in the form of a better tip. Some people said they are fine with it, and others (like myself) are not, and is plain and simply stealing (its not theirs to give away free)...

 

[Baxter]

I always say the same thing to the guy at the counter when he tells me my bill for the time: "It's an outrage, but I'll pay anyway." Yeah, an "outrage." I play seven hours and my bill is something like $27. Does anyone know another leisure activity with an hourly rate like that? I think the counter man gets the idea that I am being ironic. He waits for my complaint and looks at me impassively. He never cuts me any slack. On occasion, if my bill is large and the owner is on the counter, he'll knock a couple of bucks off. I hope he doesn't do it because he thinks I'm serious!

I pay full fare at that room with a smile in my heart. I want that room to stay in business, and I want the owner to charge whatever he needs to have it do that. I live in fear and trembling that it may someday close and I will have to find another and it will have liquor, large TV screens, guys looking for girls and girls looking for guys, rap on the jukebox, and maybe even smokers.

I've never been in a really good pool room that served liquor, except in Europe.

You must not be a golfer.

 

[GoldCrown]

(As a regular) I had a server in a restaurant not charge for the 2nd beer or wine. One time it was a full bottle of wine. My wife and I are 20% tippers and he was trying to "Thank Us" for being generous in a place that has a lot of cheap low tipping customers. I started to resent what he was doing and asked him to kindly charge for everything. What he was doing was not right. It is theft....unless the owner approves of what was going on.

 

[scsuxci]

For me,I wouldn't look at it as thievery because I have no idea if
the owner gives her permission to do this in the first place.

To show a small act of kindness in a business can go a very long way.
You wouldn't want to ask the owner ,just in case she wasn't given
permission and now could cost her alot of grief.

When I was a bartender,the owner would give me a choice of
selected alcohol,that throughout the night I could give people
some free shots to show appreciation that they chose to come to
our establishment.

The owner trusted me enough to make proper judgement calls to
how much I was giving out.If I were you I would look at it the same way,
just a small act of kindness.

 

[CreeDo]

To show a small act of kindness in a business can go a very long way. You wouldn't want to ask the owner ,just in case she wasn't given
permission and now could cost her alot of grief.

You mean just in case she was stealing from the owner and he rightfully would come down on her for it?

Look, I wouldn't necessarily name names and try to get someone fired, but if you were trusted to make proper judgment calls, I will also trust the owner to handle his employee correctly. If it were just some very small gift like a soda then I doubt he's gonna fire her on the spot. But then again I wouldn't bring it up if it's just a soda.

Instead, it's like... $50+ bucks worth of table time a night. Multiply that by several servers and you have a leaking ship.

 

[Papa Red]

It just an aged old scam that employees do to get extra money into their pockets in the bar business. Bartenders over pour to gain better tips, which adds to the overhead for the owner. Same with giving pool time, beers, and food to friends. I've been around this since the 70's and you would not believe the BS that some employees come up with to pocket your money. I never liked having to fire an employee, but sometimes it's necessary.

It's theft, plain and simple. If you don't think so, hire me

 

[GreenFeltguy]

stealing

The very most important thing a pool room owner needs to do to stay in business is to eliminate theft, I strongly recommend firing and prosecuting any and all employees that give away drinks, pool time, etc. as they are stealing from the business. Customers who tip the thieves doing this are just as guilty and should be shown the door too because this is the major reason pool halls and bars go out of business. Remember owners - nice guys finish last !:angry:

 

[Rain-Man]

For me,I wouldn't look at it as thievery because I have no idea if
the owner gives her permission to do this in the first place.

To show a small act of kindness in a business can go a very long way.
You wouldn't want to ask the owner ,just in case she wasn't given
permission and now could cost her alot of grief.

When I was a bartender,the owner would give me a choice of
selected alcohol,that throughout the night I could give people
some free shots to show appreciation that they chose to come to
our establishment.

The owner trusted me enough to make proper judgement calls to
how much I was giving out.If I were you I would look at it the same way,
just a small act of kindness.

Its an act of kindness on the owners part IF he/she gives permission to the bartender to give away free drinks here and there. It is THEFT by the bartender without the owners permission and consent.. I have owned 4 successful bars/clubs over the last 10 or so years, and learned my lesson early on to NEVER give the bartender that kind of authority. It should be given to the manager(s) or done by the owner his or her self.. "You can give a FEW free drinks out per shift" turns into 10, which turns into 20, which quickly turns into giving the house away. Its a BAD idea.. The saddest part of it all, is when you finally have to confront the bartender about it, I've had a few of them truly not understand that they were doing something wrong, and not comprehend that it is actually stealing. This is why it is a BAD IDEA give the bartender that kind of authority. You say, "you can give a FEW free drinks out per shift", but what they hear is, "you can give out free drinks". Well, that IS NOT the same as what was told to them. Then, if you try to be a nice guy and do not actually fire them (I truly HATE firing people, it is the HARDEST part as an owner), guess what happens? If they actually listen to you and follow your orders (usually doesnt happen, they just try to be more clever about it), their loyal customers stop coming in on their shifts. Why, because these people arent "loyal" customers, their looking for free drinks! They know they have a good thing going on when they hook up with a bartender that charges them $20 for $60 worth of drinks! Of course their "loyal" customers, their "loyal" to the bartender stealing on their behalf! But its funny how fast their "loyalty" quickly ends when the gravy train stops..
Again, and I STRESS this.... it IS GOOD business to reward your good customers every now and then, but ONLY if the decision is made by the OWNER, not made by the employees. If the owner never does it, then that is his/her decision (bad business in my opinion...), but it is still HIS/HER decision, and NOT the employees decision to override it, for ANY reason. If they do, its theft...