When did getting low on the cue happen?

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
3C players tend to be more upright and snooker players tend to be quite low. I think a better question than when is why. What are the advantages and disadvantages of very low vs. more upright that lead to the 3c/snooker difference in stance height? Visual, stroke mechanics, something else?
Every player of any billiard game stands a bit to a lot different.
A good example is watching professional baseball players at the plate.
Some look pretty conventional and some look just odd.
But it works for them.
 

Geosnookery

Well-known member
Every player of any billiard game stands a bit to a lot different.
A good example is watching professional baseball players at the plate.
Some look pretty conventional and some look just odd.
But it works for them.

True and this is where a lot of the ‘must dos’ break down. The best billiard player in the world currently is Judd Trump. He’s a studious player but has a quirky last second twist to his cue to the side when he hits the cueball. The best before him was Ronnie OSullivan who never hits centre ball as in ‘never’...Putting a spin on every shot certainly didn’t hurt his game.

There’s a fine line between so-called technical ‘must do’s’ of any sport and the suppression of natural talent. Chinese snooker players are technically perfect as they all come out of Snooker school inculcated with the same instruction. Once they are on the pro circuit they do well until reaching the top 20 or so positions. Most Chinese snooker school players then falter as they never developed their own individual quirks that give that extra edge.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Every player of any billiard game stands a bit to a lot different.
A good example is watching professional baseball players at the plate.
Some look pretty conventional and some look just odd.
But it works for them.
That's true to an extent, but when I started to watch snooker players from a pool perspective, they looked like peas in a pod to me. They all were low on the cue, open bridge and more facing the shot. None of them looked like a pool player, or at least not like Jimmy Moore ;). Even now when I notice significant differences between snooker players, the average is far from the typical pool player.

It's hard to know how much of the difference if from tradition and how much from a particular technique really being required to be successful for most people. Most top snooker players' chins are actually rubbing on the cue stick -- not just close.

For those who would like to see carom players' stances, here are three of the best:
3-cushion:
balkline, a ball-to-ball carom game:
 
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It depends on the shot I'm taking but if the cue is close to the object ball I hold my stick way up and Messiah on the ball and some times I'll Messiah around a ball to get to mine. I think back in the day they did alot more shots like that, like my dad used to do the Messiah shots all the time when we were playing.
 

KS25-06

New member
I have been playing pool since 1964. Have worn glasses all my life. Would some one please explain about pool glasses. I have progressive lenses because of being near sighted. Just got new glasses three weeks ago. Can still get to 20-15 on the charts. I was taught to shoot low over the cue. Lately, I have been having trouble on long very thin cuts, and over cutting slight angles.
 

SurfTopics

Member
perhaps low deflection cues play a part.

LD shafts natural pivot points are further back from the tip than traditional shafts promoting a longer bridge where eyes are sighting from further back.

I'm not suggesting LD shafts are the sole reason but an upright stance with a long bridge is pretty uncommon to see.
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been playing pool since 1964. Have worn glasses all my life. Would some one please explain about pool glasses. I have progressive lenses because of being near sighted. Just got new glasses three weeks ago. Can still get to 20-15 on the charts. I was taught to shoot low over the cue. Lately, I have been having trouble on long very thin cuts, and over cutting slight angles.
My recommendation and this is what I did.
Spending what's needed for the proper glass frame is more important then the cue stick, don't cheap it here.
Make sure the frames have NO framework from 9-3 O'clock.
Have lens frames that allow for a curved surface, make sure the nose pads are low on the frame.
Single vision and if your playing mostly one 9 footers, I'd start with a fixed 11 ft focal point.
When you get your eyes ck'd for your normal ck, just ask em to write a script for this lens focal point, they will not charge you extra.
I would NOT get any type of coating on em.
If you'd like I'll take a pic of mine, and they don't look like Mr. Magoo Glasses. :) Tho in the sixties Cosmo wore this type to play in, very circus like looking frames.
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looked at my frames here's what I have. Eschenbach....Titan flex 820568 60 145 CE


Hope this helps, it's what I have had for many yrs.
 

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Two very different games Gary. The Golf game had between four and six players most of the time and the Liability game you speak of had only two players. The rules and the payoffs are very different as well.

Interesting factoid about the game between Morro and Kim. This match was no accident that just happened by them being at the same place and time. They set it up in advance and Kim drove down to L.A. for the match and stayed in my home the entire five or six days it went on. On the first day Kim lost all his money (I believe it was 6,000) to Morro. He came back to my house and told me he "knew" he could beat Morro at this game. He had his wife Aida wire down the last 3,000 he had to gamble with. If he lost that he was done. Kim took his "case" money and proceeded to bust Morro and his backers. Kim ended up winning over 10K. I gained a lot of respect for Kim that week.
I watched quite a few hours of that match and Morro was sick as a dog. He never took off his jacket and always had a sheen of sweat. Nobody could ever say that he didn't have a ton of gamble in him.

Kim was so smooth and was one of my favorite players to watch. I first saw him go hill/hill with Efren at the Bicycle Club in the early 90's. The 9 ball was just off the end rail and the cue ball at the other end. Somehow he came in behind the 9 and barely missed a length of the table kick. Always wondered what his career would have been like if it hadn't been for the golfing accident.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's true to an extent, but when I started to watch snooker players from a pool perspective, they looked like peas in a pod to me. They all were low on the cue, open bridge and more facing the shot. None of them looked like a pool player, or at least not like Jimmy Moore ;). Even now when I notice significant differences between snooker players, the average is far from the typical pool player.

It's hard to know how much of the difference if from tradition and how much from a particular technique really being required to be successful for most people. Most top snooker players' chins are actually rubbing on the cue stick -- not just close.

For those who would like to see carom players' stances, here are three of the best:
3-cushion:
balkline, a ball-to-ball carom game:
Here are another couple of 3c giants, Dick Jaspers and Sang Lee. Sang Lee, in particular is very upright.

 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMHO. Carom players stand also more up because if you are really low on cue you cant see diamonds on table good. Carom also need really good 3D perspective perceive skills. That´s easier if you stand up little higher.
 

Mikey1977

New member
We have a 60 year old regular here who stands upright and says he always has, although my guess is it’s partly due to to his big belly. He’s an excellent shot maker and can make some of the dangdest 90° cut shots I’ve ever seen, even from a distance. I guess he’s just a rare exception?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We have a 60 year old regular here who stands upright and says he always has, although my guess is it’s partly due to to his big belly. He’s an excellent shot maker and can make some of the dangdest 90° cut shots I’ve ever seen, even from a distance. I guess he’s just a rare exception?
Minnesota Fats is the universal standard. To a degree long banks and long combos are easier to see and shoot standing up. Less cramping for one but I think the main thing is you develop a feel for shooting what you are looking at; no middleman...
 
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