When Is A Custom Cue "A Custom Cue?"

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aloha all.

I know the answer to my question, but it seems that a lot of people on here are fascinated with "custom cues" that are "customed" for someone other than themselves.

It may only be a "terminology" thing, but I only say I have a "custom" cue, if it has been made specifically for me by the cuemaker...not a cue to my specs that was made for another party and then sold to me.

To me it is like saying you have a "custom" car if you buy one of the thousands that are produced by a car company and you just happened to find one on a car lot. It may be exactly the same color, engine, etc that you were looking for, but the company did not make the car "specifically" for you.

This post is not meant to offend or flame anyone, I'm just using terminology that I picked up years ago when the only people buying "custom" cues were those that ordered them directly from the maker or through a seller who contacted the maker for you.

If I had a cue made for someone else, even though it was my specs, and somebody asked what kind of cue I had, I would answer "I have a cue that is made by XXXX". I would never say, "I have a custom cue made by XXXXX", since it wasn't made for me.
 
A rose by any other name? I guess our definitions differ. To me, a "custom" cue is a cue made by a cue maker, an individual who produces cues in a limited number....as opposed to "factory" cues...
 
HawaiianEye said:
Aloha all.

I know the answer to my question, but it seems that a lot of people on here are fascinated with "custom cues" that are "customed" for someone other than themselves.

It may only be a "terminology" thing, but I only say I have a "custom" cue, if it has been made specifically for me by the cuemaker...not a cue to my specs that was made for another party and then sold to me.

To me it is like saying you have a "custom" car if you buy one of the thousands that are produced by a car company and you just happened to find one on a car lot. It may be exactly the same color, engine, etc that you were looking for, but the company did not make the car "specifically" for you.

This post is not meant to offend or flame anyone, I'm just using terminology that I picked up years ago when the only people buying "custom" cues were those that ordered them directly from the maker or through a seller who contacted the maker for you.

If I had a cue made for someone else, even though it was my specs, and somebody asked what kind of cue I had, I would answer "I have a cue that is made by XXXX". I would never say, "I have a custom cue made by XXXXX", since it wasn't made for me.
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That is very nice Opinion, I am sure some will agree and some will not, that is the problem with Opinions. If you are going to present a question phrase it as a question, if you are going to give an Opinion end your post with JIMO or Just In My Opinion.


JIMO
 
manwon said:
That is very nice Opinion, I am sure some will agree and some will not, that is the problem with Opinions. If you are going to present a question phrase it as a question, if you are going to give an Opinion end your post with JIMO or Just In My Opinion.


JIMO
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When the author uses words such as.... "I would" it implies that it is their opinion. *fact*

English as a written language 101
 
Zerius said:
When the author uses words such as.... "I would" it implies that it is their opinion. *fact*

English as a written language 101
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Yes, that is the way I was intending it to be interpreted. It is/was my "opinion", based upon what "I" learned from my early days working in the pool hall where we sold cues "off the shelf" from mass-production companies and individual cue makers. We also sold "custom" cues, which we ordered "directly" from the maker with the individual's specific weight, balance point, shaft diameter, tip preference, color of points, number of points, etc.

Way back then, there were very few players who had "custom" cues, even if it was from a well-known maker who handmade cues. They all bought them previously owned or "off the shelf" from the existing stock on hand.

Like I said in the initial post, it was "terminology" as I learned it. I was interested in other people's thoughts on what they considered "custom".
 
Zerius said:
When the author uses words such as.... "I would" it implies that it is their opinion. *fact*

English as a written language 101
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There are many statements or key phrases that can be used or viewed as offering an Opinion. Generally these statements or key phrases are used by the person writing when they have no facts or other information to support their belief in the subject matter being discussed.

Thanks for your information!!:smile:
 
HawaiianEye said:
Yes, that is the way I was intending it to be interpreted. It is/was my "opinion", based upon what "I" learned from my early days working in the pool hall where we sold cues "off the shelf" from mass-production companies and individual cue makers. We also sold "custom" cues, which we ordered "directly" from the maker with the individual's specific weight, balance point, shaft diameter, tip preference, color of points, number of points, etc.

Way back then, there were very few players who had "custom" cues, even if it was from a well-known maker who handmade cues. They all bought them previously owned or "off the shelf" from the existing stock on hand.

Like I said in the initial post, it was "terminology" as I learned it. I was interested in other people's thoughts on what they considered "custom".
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I suspect that a simple example for something that is custom and that would also apply to cues is Made-To-Order.

JIMO
 
manwon said:
There are many statements or key phrases that can be used or viewed as offering an Opinion. Generally these statements or key phrases are used by the person writing when they have no facts or other information to support their belief in the subject matter being discussed.

Thanks for your information!!:smile:
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This is the way I use the word "custom made".

http://www.answers.com/topic/custom-made

FWIW, I didn't only learn that "definition" from reading it in a book (whether it is correct or not, is YOUR opinion), I learned it from working in the pool halls starting back in the 60's and also from my father, who was a "custom" furniture maker and wood worker. When he made a "custom" couch, picture frame, cabinet, etc. it was to the "individual" specifications of the person "ordering" the furniture.

When he advertised his "stuff" he advertised it as "hand made" by him when it was being sold already made and not for any particular person's order. If somebody specifically contracted him to make something a certain way, color, size, etc, he called it "custom made for XXX".
 
HawaiianEye said:
If I had a cue made for someone else, even though it was my specs, and somebody asked what kind of cue I had, I would answer "I have a cue that is made by XXXX". I would never say, "I have a custom cue made by XXXXX", since it wasn't made for me.
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The "custom" in custom cue has nothing to do with the whether the cue was custom made for the owner. It has to do with the manner in which the cuemaker goes about his craft.

Production cues are made by shops with multiple employees who make many copies of a couple dozen cues. The production shop's business revolves around making copies of the cues in the catalog over and over. Production shops make thousands of cues a year.

A custom cuemaker is someone who makes cues to order as his primary business. Your custom cue might not have been custom made for you but it was custom made for someone. Whether it was some individual, a dealer, or even the cuemaker himself, someone specifically wanted that cue made. A custom cuemaker makes closer to 100 cues a year.

Custom cues are folk art. You have the chance to buy something made by an individual. This one guy spent years and years learning this craft. He labored over building something specifically for you. There aren't many things made like that today.
 
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I think the responses will depend on whether the respondent has ever ordered a cue stick according to personal specifications from the cue maker either in person or by direct correspondence.

I've had 5 custom cues (by the OP's definition) so I'm a little biased.

I think it would be nice if more cue buyers would go to their local cue maker and discuss what kind of cue they wanted to have custom built. That's how I got my first custom cue -- a bird's-eye maple Zimmerman with ivory joint and butt plate, pigskin wrap, and two shafts with buckhorn ferrules. Of course I had no real idea of what would work well for me; that didn't come until years later.
 
matta said:
Production cues are made by shops with multiple employees who make many copies of a couple dozen cues.....

A custom cuemaker is someone who makes cues to order as his primary business. Your custom cue might not have been custom made for you but it was custom made for someone.....
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I know the difference between production companies and custom cuemakers...I have had cues by both.

If we are going to use the term "custom" to say the cue was made for "someone", even though that "someone" isn't defined, then everything is therefore "custom". Lots of "custom" cuemakers make cues that nobody has "pre-ordered"...they make them to commonly preferred specifications that the "majority" of players play with and have them ready ahead of sale time. That is until they become so popular that they can't keep up with the demand and then it takes months and years to get a "custom" cue directly from them.

Like I have said here a couple of times...I KNOW the difference between mass produced cues from companies with numerours workers and cuemakers who work alone and make or put together every component of the cue.

Read my previous post above where I mentioned my father who was a custom furniture maker. How many people do you know who have "custom" couches? Or "custom" end tables? He would make them for individual customers to "fit" their houses. If your bedroom was too small for a particular night stand, he would make the same design "smaller" to fit your house...THAT was "CUSTOM". If you wanted a couch that one section was blue leather, the middle was green velvet, and the sides were purple shag carpet, he would "CUSTOM" make that for you. He may say you had worse taste than Elvis, with your color choices, but he would make it for you.

I didn't create this post to argue with anyone, I was just wondering if when you went to the pool hall and somebody asked you what kind of cue you were using what you said. Did you say you had a "custom cue by Balabuska" when he died before you were born and you happened to have a Balabushka that you paid $XXXX thousand dollars for 35 years after he was dead.
 
Suppose you order a custom cue to your specifications, and you want the weight to be 19.2oz. Suppose it comes back 19.3oz. Is it now no longer a custom cue because it wasn't made to your specifications?
 
HawaiianEye said:
This is the way I use the word "custom made".

http://www.answers.com/topic/custom-made

FWIW, I didn't only learn that "definition" from reading it in a book (whether it is correct or not, is YOUR opinion), I learned it from working in the pool halls starting back in the 60's and also from my father, who was a "custom" furniture maker and wood worker. When he made a "custom" couch, picture frame, cabinet, etc. it was to the "individual" specifications of the person "ordering" the furniture.

When he advertised his "stuff" he advertised it as "hand made" by him when it was being sold already made and not for any particular person's order. If somebody specifically contracted him to make something a certain way, color, size, etc, he called it "custom made for XXX".
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My point has been from the begining that you will get many answers, different sites will have a different explainations of custom.

For instance here is a site called http://www.thefreedictionary.com/custom

This is how they explain it:

cus·tom (kstm)
n.
1. A practice followed by people of a particular group or region.
2. A habitual practice of a person: my custom of reading a little before sleep. See Synonyms at habit.
3. Law A common tradition or usage so long established that it has the force or validity of law.
4.
a. Habitual patronage, as of a store.
b. Habitual customers; patrons.
5. customs
a. Duties or taxes imposed on imported and, less commonly, exported goods.
b. (used with a sing. verb) The governmental agency authorized to collect these duties.
c. (used with a sing. verb) The procedure for inspecting goods and baggage entering a country.
6. Tribute, service, or rent paid by a feudal tenant to a lord.
adj.
1. Made to order.
2. Specializing in the making or selling of made-to-order goods: a custom tailor.

I am not saying your wrong or right or that I am wrong or right only that there will be many Opinions offered, even when checking sites on line.

JIMO
 
PoolBum said:
Suppose you order a custom cue to your specifications, and you want the weight to be 19.2oz. Suppose it comes back 19.3oz. Is it now no longer a custom cue because it wasn't made to your specifications?
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No. I would say "it was custom made for me, but the maker was a bit off in the weight from what I asked him to make for me". Whether it was by accident or incomptence on his part would then be open for discussion. When I ask someone to make something "custom" for me, I expect close to EXACTLY what I ordered, within known capabilities on the cuemakers part. If it is beyond what I would consider "acceptable tolerance" then I would return the cue to have it "fixed" or replaced with another one.

That is one of the differences between what I consider "custom" cues and "off the shelf" cues. When you buy something off the shelf you have it in hand and can see it, weigh it, try it, etc before you buy it. When you have a cue made just for "you", then you wait until it is made and then find out if it is your "custom fit". Every "custom" cue that I have bought has been within the "tolerances" of what me and the cuemaker talked about before he made it.
 
In my mind, anything that is 1 of 1 is a custom cue. If predator has a 1 of 1 cue, then in my mind that's a custom (not including blemished customs LOL)

However, a true custom cue would be one that is tailored for one individual only.

JIMO
 
Imho...

IMHO...

A custom cue is made by one cue maker from beginning to end. For those silly people out there; I am not talking about cutting down a tree or shooting an animal to get raw materials.:grin: I am talking about a cue maker the produces his own components on a lathe/saw/drill to make the forearm, points, inlays, collar, etc… Then the cue maker would assemble the cue and make it ready to play. This cue might be for a specific order for a customer or a cue made ready sell to someone that wants it. This is always a limited cue because the cue maker can only produce so many per year.

Then next kind of cue is the hand made cue. This is a cue that is made by two or more cue makers using a lathe/saw/drill. The cue maker could order a forearm or blank made by another cue maker. The cue maker could also be in the same shop and they both work on the cue. The cue makers would produce their own components like the forearm, points, inlays, collar, etc… The cue would still be assemble by hand and make it ready to play. This cue might be for a specific order for a customer or a cue made ready sell to someone that wants it. This is always a limited cue because the cue makers can only produce so many per year.

The next kind of cue is a manufactured cue. These are cues produce by automated equipment and/or on an assemble line. These are mass produce cues that are made by normal companies. In most case they are made to be assembled by not so highly skilled people doing the same thing over and over again. The cue are always made ready to sell and not for a specific customer. Weightbot or linen wrap changes and do not count as ‘custom cues”.:grin:

For those that say Schon or McDermott makes a custom cue. They do make one of or limited series cues but these cues would still fall under “hand made cue” at best. When ask what cue I have or what cue is that. I have always said the cue makers name or the manufacture that makes it. At the end of the day, it does not matter what you call a cue. Weather a custom cue, hand made cue or a manufactured cue if you have one in your hands then just have fun shooting some pool IMHO.:D
 
Zerius said:
In my mind, anything that is 1 of 1 is a custom cue. If predator has a 1 of 1 cue, then in my mind that's a custom (not including blemished customs LOL)

However, a true custom cue would be one that is tailored for one individual only.

JIMO
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Here is the definition of a "custom" cue that I found on another billiard website. Notice it says "handcrafted by cuemaker as requested by the purchaser". To me, that says "for a specific person". Whether it is right or wrong, this is the definition that I was taught and have always used.

I'm not advocating that a cue wasn't made solely by a particular cuemaker, I'm saying that IMHO when you say, "I use/have a custom Szamboti cue" that it insinuates it was made by Szamboti for YOU unless you caveate the statement with some sort of disclaimer.

http://www.billiardsforum.info/billiard-terms-definition/custom-cue.asp

Custom Cue Definition

Determined custom cue typically refers to a pool cue that was handcrafted by cuemaker as requested by the purchaser. Typically custom cuemakers yield a low volume of cues per year due to the length of time it takes to construct each custom cue. For this reason, custom cues typically command a very high price and are generally considered to be of high quality. The cuemakers generally invest much time and effort in ensuring the quality and structural integrity of their pool cues. Most players consider this type of cue making to be superior as compared with the manufactured cue from an assembly line.
 
Custom = made 100% to the specs of the customer
Personalized = made to the specs of the builder with some trivial alterations
Customized = made to the specs of the builder with some major alterations
Modified - altered from stock by customer to their liking

All of the above are technically custom as they are made for a particular person's instructions.

Finding a stock cue on the rack that fits exactly what you would have done if you were to have it custom built does not make the cue custom because the cue was not created with specifications that are any different than other stock cues made by the same maker. Even if the cue is unique it's still not custom. If the customer has no input into the creation then it's not custom in any way.

Some cue companies like to style themselves as custom cue makers when in fact they build mostly production cues to a set standard. Schon for example goes by the name Schon Custom Cues. Only in very limited circumstances are customers afforded the opportunity to have a Schon cue built to any specs other than what Schon normally does. So to me they are a limited production company that offers some customization within the parameters they prefer to build in. Viking offers a far higher level of customization than Schon for example and they do not title themselves as a custom cue maker.
 
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