When will we finally ditch 9-ball?

[catscradle]

Well this is a thread.....

Have you all ever considered against what competition (in terms of sports) pool is in? How interesting is it for a non player to see someone running a rack or in this case worse racks? In comparison to all the action sports, and the rest of the televised programms pool seems to be boring. Only if you are a player (amateur or ball banger) you can understand what it takes to make it look so easy.

My 2cents plan of approach to pool marketing:

1. Step
Address the 40 Million players directly. Build the sport around the personality of the Pro's. Make a promotion sort of like boxing. You have to build up tension like in a team sport. Make people to vow for theire personal favorite.

2. If you then televise a match have an intro like before a big fight like" watch Earl The Havoc of Pool taking on the Magician (like Matchroom does). Show spectacular scenes and shots of the opponents before the match starts.

3. Stick to 9 Ball but make it call pocket! It is the most spectacular game for the outsiders. Use good and knowledgable commentators like Billy Incardona or Grady.

This can be a first step to the attract sponsors to get mor money involved. Pool will never be a real professional sport if the price money is an amateurs. And last but not least this needs professional management, don't let players run the show. This has never worked out so far....

PS: PLease don't mind my English. I am a foreigner...

You make some good points, but I still think that until more people play pool with a passion and start relatively young it won't make it as a spectator event. It is the same reason why almost every soccer (football) match is televised over there and none are over here (that's changing btw). Although there are a hugh number of pool players most of them are of the "I'm bored, HEY, lets go play some pool" variety. Participation leads spectation generally, though maybe the running boom of the 70's was the other way around.

 

[ceebee]

I agree with the previous post. I am a very good room player and when I match up with another very good room player playing eight ball, the winner 95% of the time is the benefactor of the break. That number would only be higher for the pros and thus someone like Johnny Archer would clean up with his break. I watched him run out a match in eight ball once and it looked rediculously (sp.) easy. No test for the pros...I play all the games and maybe one pocket would be the best test of all skills and imagination

The Break Shot is the "key shot" in lots of Pool games. A good Break Shot gets the balls rolling your way on the snap, even in One Pocket.

I myself would love to see some $25,000 up (five players) Ring games... down to the last 2 players standing. The winner gets a $10,000 purse 7 keeps his winnings, the number two (2) players get's his winnings & a $2000 purse. I would also like to hear the conversations of their StakeHorses during the match. I believe that would be some great action.

 

[bruin70]

if "they" have to relate to the audience, they should play 8ball......"stripes and solids" is the one game all the non playing, general public is familiar with.

 

[kyle]

I think part of the problem is everything is 9-ball why not mix it up abit if a new pro tour started next year with say 20 tournaments you could have the majoity 9-ball,10-ball and 8-ball,along with some one pocket,rotation,banks and straight. You could have majors like golf does one for each game. You'd need some kind of point system to ensure players play a variety of games. Maybe winners of certain events earn spots in ring games.

 

[predator]

The current world championship gets more exposure and prize money each year. And who knows what can happen; with a few more events like that, even more exposure and prize money...I expect that in a decade or so pool will get the respect it deserves. You can't turn around the whole image of the game overnight...it takes considerable time.

As a player, I know that I'd like to see on TV as far as pool goes, but what about casual players? Would they really watch that sort of thing?
Ask you non-pool playing friends...

 

[dday]

The current world championship gets more exposure and prize money each year. And who knows what can happen; with a few more events like that, even more exposure and prize money...I expect that in a decade or so pool will get the respect it deserves. You can't turn around the whole image of the game overnight...it takes considerable time.

As a player, I know that I'd like to see on TV as far as pool goes, but what about casual players? Would they really watch that sort of thing?
Ask you non-pool playing friends...

I may be off base but I know before I got serious about playing pool I enjoyed watching trick shots over 9-ball. Now some almost 5yrs later I don't care for the trick shots anymore. Alot of "non"-pool players like watching the trick shots cause there is nothing to understand more than what the shooter explains prior to the shot. That being said I don't think trick shots are going to help our sport but I think that the majority of the non-pool community is going to say they like the trick shots.

Personally I like the big time ring games, something like ESPN is doing with the world poker tour. Hell, the poker tour is flying and prior to the tour being on TV I thought poker was not that interesting to watch, fun to play, not much to watch. If ESPN can make poker so edge of your seat it should not be that hard to do something simular with pool.

dday

 

[TATE]

9 Ball is THE game. If it didn't exist, I would quit playing. I love 9 ball. I find most of the other games boring, uneventful.

What 9 ball needs is tight pockets. Tighten them up to 4 or 4 1/4 inches and you won't see as many break and runs.

Chris

 

[Wally in Cincy]

....Alot of "non"-pool players like watching the trick shots cause there is nothing to understand more than what the shooter explains prior to the shot.....

The trick shot shows draw the highest ratings of all the pool on ESPN. That's why you see them repeated so often.

 

[9balllvr]

9 Ball is THE game. If it didn't exist, I would quit playing. I love 9 ball. I find most of the other games boring, uneventful.

What 9 ball needs is tight pockets. Tighten them up to 4 or 4 1/4 inches and you won't see as many break and runs.

Chris

I agree with Chris...

Although everyone seems to be able to run numerous racks at a time, there is not a dominating individual on the men's pro tour and the up and coming women are working on knocking out the snooker champs.....9 ball is a great game....fast, competitive, anything can happen.....I would quit playing as well if it did not exist.....

 

[CaptainJR]

9-ball could be the game.

It is evident the game does not have the difficulty to continue as the proffesional game of choice.

All you have to do is eliminate luck and safties.

You want 9-ball to be difficult enough for the pros. Try these rules.

1. Eliminate as much luck as you can so you can accentuate skill.
a. 9 on the brake doesn't win.
b. Call ball and pocket.

2. Eliminate safeties to force great shot making.
a. Make pass back available on every turn. Even on a scratch.
This eliminates ball in hand and gets rid of some of those easy outs
caused by ball in hand.
b. After a scratch go back to spotting the next ball if it is in the
kitchen. (start practicing that spot shot again)


Only problem is, as soon as you start to make the game more difficult, the game takes longer. And the TV people wouldn't like it.

JR

 

[Pelican]

yes indeed

Excellent Captain JR, excellent.

 

[sjm]

All you have to do is eliminate luck and safties.

You want 9-ball to be difficult enough for the pros. Try these rules.

1. Eliminate as much luck as you can so you can accentuate skill.
a. 9 on the brake doesn't win.
b. Call ball and pocket.

2. Eliminate safeties to force great shot making.
a. Make pass back available on every turn. Even on a scratch.
This eliminates ball in hand and gets rid of some of those easy outs
caused by ball in hand.
b. After a scratch go back to spotting the next ball if it is in the
kitchen. (start practicing that spot shot again)


Only problem is, as soon as you start to make the game more difficult, the game takes longer. And the TV people wouldn't like it.

JR

Captain, this is a step in the direction of a return to the "one shot shotout" version of nineball that was common until the early eighties, the version of nineball I played in my teens and early twenties. As you suggest, it was more of a shotmaker's game and less of a strategic game. Still, on the whole, I feel it was far less interesting.

Defense and kicking are two skills in nineball that place a great premium on billiard knowledge, and I believe that eliminating them would, in many ways, make the game easier. Eliminating the defense that results from two way shots would also simplify the game, but to me it would also make it less interesting to watch.

There's a middle ground, and it occurred to me while I watched a seven ball event on ESPN. The rules there said that each player can only play one safety per rack. I wondered how such a rule might play out in nineball.
Anyone care to share there views on this?

 

[Nott]

All you have to do is eliminate luck and safties.

You want 9-ball to be difficult enough for the pros. Try these rules.

1. Eliminate as much luck as you can so you can accentuate skill.
a. 9 on the brake doesn't win.
b. Call ball and pocket.

2. Eliminate safeties to force great shot making.
a. Make pass back available on every turn. Even on a scratch.
This eliminates ball in hand and gets rid of some of those easy outs
caused by ball in hand.
b. After a scratch go back to spotting the next ball if it is in the
kitchen. (start practicing that spot shot again)

I like rule 1 but personally I think your rule 2 would be horrible and takes away half the game.

Only problem is, as soon as you start to make the game more difficult, the game takes longer. And the TV people wouldn't like it.

Snooker is much "slower" than 9-ball will ever get and its a major TV sport in UK.

PS: Would like to add that I think the pockets are way to big, atleast in the WPC and Mosconi which pretty much are the only major tournaments I've seen.

 

[Jimmy M.]

If the "Texas Express" rules continue to be the standard, then moving to 10-ball wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally, I think 9-ball was a better game when balls spotted, no BIH after the break, etc. It added another element to the game. A person could win who might not have Earl Strickland firepower, but was a good mover. Now, with the Texas Express rules, it's all about firepower and big breaks (not that a big break ever hurt). There are no more "moves" in 9-ball. They say the new rules are good for TV, but I don't see a hell of a lot of pool on TV, and the new rules haven't gotten it on TV, so I don't know why they continue to use them. 9-ball was a better game before the "new" rules, IMO.

 

[T411]

If the "Texas Express" rules continue to be the standard, then moving to 10-ball wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally, I think 9-ball was a better game when balls spotted, no BIH after the break, etc. It added another element to the game. A person could win who might not have Earl Strickland firepower, but was a good mover. Now, with the Texas Express rules, it's all about firepower and big breaks (not that a big break ever hurt). There are no more "moves" in 9-ball. They say the new rules are good for TV, but I don't see a hell of a lot of pool on TV, and the new rules haven't gotten it on TV, so I don't know why they continue to use them. 9-ball was a better game before the "new" rules, IMO.

TAP, TAP, TAP

 

[sjm]

Personally, I think 8 ball moves too slow. There may be too much stategy for the average TV person to consume. 9 ball is simple, has enough luck to make it exciting, and is fast! Shot wise, 9 ball is more challenging than 8 ball. You see more long shots in 9 ball, and thus more misses. And the more misses, the more the excitement. Sure, 8 ball has some long shots, but this is mostly a position and strategy game.

I don't see why you want to upset something that is succeeding IMO. Look at the Mosconi Cup. The Brits love to watch it for all of the above reasons.

The alternating break prevents one sidedness to some degree and makes comebacks more likely, which again adds to excitement.

Whitewolf, you're right that the alternate break can prevent one-sidedness, ensuring each player a chance to get control of the table. However, the alternate break makes comebacks LESS likely. For example, if a match gets to 10 - 7, the trailing player will only get to break two of the last four racks, as opposed to all four in a comeback bid. That's why big comebacks have been a rarity in the men's BCA Open ever since they switched to alternate break in 2002.

 

[CaptainJR]

OK, now that I got that out of my system.


Varied responses here but I think the general opinion was that the idea was ok but just needs toned down a little bit to make sure that strategy stayed a part of the game.

Yes, I think I did get a little carried away, so just for fun lets refine it. There has to be a middle of the road here.

I'll start with this. Instead of eliminating ball in hand lets just say ball in hand is always behind the head string. Which I think would help a little to eliminate some of those real easy outs created by ball in hand anywhere on the table. Now you can still play a safety, but if your safety works and the opponent doesn't make a good hit on the object ball and hit a rail, your not going to get ball in hand anywhere on the table. You just get it behind the head string, remembering that if the next ball is back there it is going to be spotted. There is some strategy for you. Play a safe while the object ball it behind the string hoping to get a spot shot that you've practiced 20,000 time in the last couple years.

One of the main things I'm talking about here is. - There should only be one way to win a game of 9-ball. That is to make the 9 ball. With ball in hand, the pros today can win a game by playing a excellent safe, giving them ball in hand. Its to easy for the pro's today to run out with ball in hand. Heck if your real good at playing safe, you can get ball in hand and play another safe, get ball in hand a play another safe, then you win without having to make the 9 at all.

The last sentence there gives you a good hint that today's 9-ball rules leave the original game somewhere along the way side.

JR