Which is more difficult to master?
- Thread starter Chacer
- Start date
No?
You're not sinking all 15 balls in 8b. You're sinking a maximum of 8.
And you can often choose a simple pattern that eliminates almost all risk of screwing up.
If you screw up anyway, you can shoot another ball.
In rotation you don't get to pick the pattern, so you're forced to take risks moving around other balls.
You don't have any option if you screw up and hook yourself.
I mean, I'm not sure how anyone can argue this.
A break and run in 8b is routine and done by amateurs every day.
A break and run in rotation is 10x rarer and beating the ghost in a race is a big deal.
He's being sarcastic about someone else's post. :thumbup:
Only Plays 8 Ball
There are many people on the forums who have opinions about everything.
I am among them.
I do not know about the other people who have posted, or their experiences and skill levels.
Good Luck with your development.
cajunfats
BCA Asst. League and Program Director 1993-1996
Previously a BCA Certified Instructor
Private Instructor since 1984
Player German Pool League
Contributing Writer Pool and Billiard Magazine
Contributor BCA Official Rules and Records Book
Director of US Army and Air Force Pocket Billiard Championships
and suddenly, a guy who doesn't know shit about the "mathematics" of Pool.
Peace, Out!
Since you stated you only play 8 Ball, I am basing my points on you're being a novice. Getting commentary from a thread will only help you a little.Wow thanks for all the feedback but the answer is still vague. One can argue that 9 ball has less balls on the table while 8 ball, ball positioning can get messed up much easier. I guess at the end of the day it just all depends on the player. Up until now i thought 9 ball was harder than 8 ball by a margian but i guess not :O. I play 8 ball only btw
There are many people on the forums who have opinions about everything.
I am among them.
I do not know about the other people who have posted, or their experiences and skill levels.
Good Luck with your development.
cajunfats
BCA Asst. League and Program Director 1993-1996
Previously a BCA Certified Instructor
Private Instructor since 1984
Player German Pool League
Contributing Writer Pool and Billiard Magazine
Contributor BCA Official Rules and Records Book
Director of US Army and Air Force Pocket Billiard Championships
and suddenly, a guy who doesn't know shit about the "mathematics" of Pool.
Peace, Out!
Yet you still haven't given the "mathematics" you spoke of. Just because you have been around pool a long time doesn't mean you can just say you know the "mathematics," yet you never give any numbers to back this up. Instead you rattle off a bunch of credentials that have absolutely nothing to do with mathematics.
So, I will ask again, what are the mathematics you are speaking of? (and if your answer is something like, "it only makes sense that x would equal y," then don't bother. either give mathematical proof and not opinion, or don't use words you shouldn't be using)
(and since we're basing things off people's posts, you compared 8 ball skill level to full rack rotation skill level....probably not the brightest post on this board)
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You need to go play the rotation ghost. After you get tired getting your brains bashed in try the 8ball ghost next. No doubt you will like your chances better against the 8ball maybe even beat it if you're a good player. Either way if you do play you're going to rethink your opinion on rotation and 8 ball being equal.
A good analysis, but you're pushing at an open door with me. We are in violent agreement.
-roger
Who in the world plays even against the rotation ghost?
Now ask yourself, how many players in the world plays even against the 8 ball ghost?
I mean, I'm pissed off we're even talking about this.
-roger
Oops. It seems my writing outpaced my reading... cajunfats has the crazy theory. Good luck with your efforts!
Strategy for the birds?
So when I saw Nick Varner play five consecutive safeties in a championship 8-ball match, he was playing 8-ball incorrectly?
My experience after 58 years of playing 8-ball is that even at the pro level, the strategist has the edge over the shooter.
So when I saw Nick Varner play five consecutive safeties in a championship 8-ball match, he was playing 8-ball incorrectly?
My experience after 58 years of playing 8-ball is that even at the pro level, the strategist has the edge over the shooter.
Only eight balls to pocket?
In a championship game years ago, my opponent moved his balls into position blocking four of the six pockets. In order to win the game I had to pocket each of his blocking balls and play a safety. I won the game, having had to pocket twelve balls in all. It's rather common in eight-ball to have to pocket one or more of your opponents balls to open a pocket.
Yes, amateurs run racks of 8-ball all the time. But what percentage of games played do they win? A very strong player in a league I played in a few years ago went for the run-out every time. He had the most break and runs by a large margin. But interestingly, he was fourth in the league in winning percentage.
One study years ago, showed that at the "A" level, the break was not an advantage, because so many things can go wrong. Another study showed that the chances of running out from the break were about equal in 8-ball and 9-ball.
I also base my opinion on watching the two players that I consider the best 8-ball players ever, Nick Varner and Efren Reyes.
In a championship game years ago, my opponent moved his balls into position blocking four of the six pockets. In order to win the game I had to pocket each of his blocking balls and play a safety. I won the game, having had to pocket twelve balls in all. It's rather common in eight-ball to have to pocket one or more of your opponents balls to open a pocket.
Yes, amateurs run racks of 8-ball all the time. But what percentage of games played do they win? A very strong player in a league I played in a few years ago went for the run-out every time. He had the most break and runs by a large margin. But interestingly, he was fourth in the league in winning percentage.
One study years ago, showed that at the "A" level, the break was not an advantage, because so many things can go wrong. Another study showed that the chances of running out from the break were about equal in 8-ball and 9-ball.
I also base my opinion on watching the two players that I consider the best 8-ball players ever, Nick Varner and Efren Reyes.
Donny... I agree 8b can turn into a very strategic battle (maybe more often than rotation, and with more depth).
But buddha's observation seems spot on to me. At the highest level, they are 100% planning to run every rack. If it doesn't happen, they probably see it as a screwup. Any ensuing safety battle is him dealing with that screwup.
I remember when shane played dennis in 8b, it was something like... 80%? of the racks were run outs. Maybe higher even. On very tight equipment, the old tar table.
I know your experience has been different, and maybe for A players and even some pros, safeties are just a typical part of 8 ball. But for those "top ten" players, safeties are almost an afterthought in this game. Like a necessary evil.
Anyway, the debate is, is 8b as difficult as rotation. I cannot understand how anyone would say yes... Just by being easier to run out (like literally 10x easier), it's inherently an easier game because that means in a short race, a weaker player can beat a stronger one.
That fits the definition of an easier game, even if the non-runout games can get "interesting".
But buddha's observation seems spot on to me. At the highest level, they are 100% planning to run every rack. If it doesn't happen, they probably see it as a screwup. Any ensuing safety battle is him dealing with that screwup.
I remember when shane played dennis in 8b, it was something like... 80%? of the racks were run outs. Maybe higher even. On very tight equipment, the old tar table.
I know your experience has been different, and maybe for A players and even some pros, safeties are just a typical part of 8 ball. But for those "top ten" players, safeties are almost an afterthought in this game. Like a necessary evil.
Anyway, the debate is, is 8b as difficult as rotation. I cannot understand how anyone would say yes... Just by being easier to run out (like literally 10x easier), it's inherently an easier game because that means in a short race, a weaker player can beat a stronger one.
That fits the definition of an easier game, even if the non-runout games can get "interesting".
Sometimes I wonder what exactly you're watching. Both are runout machines. Isn't proof and fact sufficient to realize that 8-ball at a pro level is mostly about runouts??? IPT National 8-ball? IPT Orlando? World 8-ball?? Runout, runout, runout. USBTC... runout, runout
NH State 8-ball Champioship... I don't recall any glorious safety battles there either...
Freddie <~~~ watched those two, too
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That's great, you saw one game of 8 ball 20 years ago when Varner played 5 consecutive safeties. That proves your point and disproves mine
Of COURSE there are times when a rack of 8 ball descends into mind numbing safety battles. That doesn't change the overall B&R percentages.
-roger
LOL not close.
which is more difficult to master, 8 ball or 9 ball?
Im looking for opinions from people that have played both equally.
please state why you feel one is more difficult than the other, rather than just one word answer.I kept hearing different sides from friends that hardly play pool so i would really like to know.
I am surprised people say 8 ball more difficult, 8 ball have all pockets available, and you get to choose another shot should you go out of line, in 9 game, that option is closed, so 9 ball is harder because it demands position control which is the hardest thing in pool.
But your position zones are bigger in 9-ball. And since there are fewer balls on the table, if you get out of line on a ball, you have more route options to get back in line for your next shot.
In 8-ball, you have to play tighter position or change your plan. And it's simply not the case that you have "all pockets available" or "can just choose another shot." At the start of the game, there are 7 or 8 balls that could get in the way as well as the fact that your own balls can cause problems. Also, having to change your shot means that your run-out may have just ended because you couldn't get the correct position on a ball to break up a troublesome cluster (for example.)
I'm not saying 8-ball is harder, just that you're dismissing it with an overly simplified argument.