Which is the hardest to achieve?
- Thread starter alstl
- Start date
For me personally, on a 9-footer it would be (easiest to hardest):
8-ball ghost (favorite to win)
9-ball ghost (about 50% chance to win)
50 balls straight pool (never made it to 50)
I think most players (myself included) don't play enough straight pool to know the correct patterns and break shots, which makes a 50-ball run a very tall task.
8-ball ghost (favorite to win)
9-ball ghost (about 50% chance to win)
50 balls straight pool (never made it to 50)
I think most players (myself included) don't play enough straight pool to know the correct patterns and break shots, which makes a 50-ball run a very tall task.
Not that hard to believe.
And he's not saying he runs out half his 9ball racks, but that he can beat the 9ball ghost 50% of the time. There's a difference.
Yes, it's embarassing but my high run in 14.1 is in the high 30's. I don't play 14.1 much, and my runs will usually end when I get funny on the break ball, or play a poor break shot and get stuck with a tough shot or none at all. If I practice and learn to play the game properly, I'm sure I could break 50.
Actually, I'm sure there are more than a few players on here (including myself) who have run more consecutive balls in 9-ball than in 14.1.
Actually, I'm sure there are more than a few players on here (including myself) who have run more consecutive balls in 9-ball than in 14.1.
If someone grew up playing all three games equally, I'd say:
50-ball run
8b ghost
9b ghost
I think straight pool may sound harder than it really is, because a lot of us hardly play it.
But back in the days when it was the main game, there were probably 30 guys in every room who
could run 50. I was able to hit 43 as a C player so I think any B player can hit 50.
But not every B player can beat the ghost in a race that long.
8b ghost will definitely be easier than 9b ghost.
You can look up statistics on break'n'run rates from the pool-trax website or AtLarge's stats.
8b is easier to run out even though making a ball on the break is harder.
Sample stats: http://www.pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_501600
With the ghost, you're removing 2 of the obstacles that prevent someone from getting high
runout rates in 8b... making a ball on the break and having the uglier group.
50-ball run
8b ghost
9b ghost
I think straight pool may sound harder than it really is, because a lot of us hardly play it.
But back in the days when it was the main game, there were probably 30 guys in every room who
could run 50. I was able to hit 43 as a C player so I think any B player can hit 50.
But not every B player can beat the ghost in a race that long.
8b ghost will definitely be easier than 9b ghost.
You can look up statistics on break'n'run rates from the pool-trax website or AtLarge's stats.
8b is easier to run out even though making a ball on the break is harder.
Sample stats: http://www.pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_501600
With the ghost, you're removing 2 of the obstacles that prevent someone from getting high
runout rates in 8b... making a ball on the break and having the uglier group.
I didn't see the race to 10 part. I would say hardest to easiest.
9 ball ghost race to 10,
then 8 ball ghost
then 50 ball run,
50 ball run isn't that hard if you put in a little time. The only reason it would be REALLY hard is because most people don't play straight pool. If you can beat the 9 & 8 ball ghost, you can slaughter the 50 ball run with a couple weeks of practice.
9 ball ghost race to 10,
then 8 ball ghost
then 50 ball run,
50 ball run isn't that hard if you put in a little time. The only reason it would be REALLY hard is because most people don't play straight pool. If you can beat the 9 & 8 ball ghost, you can slaughter the 50 ball run with a couple weeks of practice.
I agree with the poll results.
Much harder to run 50 in 14.1 than beat the ghost. I cannot beat the ghost in nine-ball regularly at all; but I do it occasionally. Never played the ghost in 8-ball, but can run out more regularly in a game format.
I never run 50 in straight pool. Assuming you start with a BIH break shot to begin the run, You still have to position correctly for three more break shots. I agree "proper" pattern is the key, and that comes from practice, but easier said than done.
Zone position play as used in 9 ball isn't good enough. I can be a good enough shot maker to still beat the 9-ball ghost if I get out of position; not so in 14.1.
I will throw in the caveat that I play at a pool hall with dirty cloth and balls. Playing with pristine conditions ABSOLUTELY helps to spread balls......
Much harder to run 50 in 14.1 than beat the ghost. I cannot beat the ghost in nine-ball regularly at all; but I do it occasionally. Never played the ghost in 8-ball, but can run out more regularly in a game format.
I never run 50 in straight pool. Assuming you start with a BIH break shot to begin the run, You still have to position correctly for three more break shots. I agree "proper" pattern is the key, and that comes from practice, but easier said than done.
Zone position play as used in 9 ball isn't good enough. I can be a good enough shot maker to still beat the 9-ball ghost if I get out of position; not so in 14.1.
I will throw in the caveat that I play at a pool hall with dirty cloth and balls. Playing with pristine conditions ABSOLUTELY helps to spread balls......
I would say that beating the 9 ball ghost is more difficult than a 50 ball run, but once you are able to do both with regularity, you will be able to beat the 9 ball ghost at a higher percentage than you will be able to run 50.
Why? Because the rolls don't have much of a role (ba dum tsh) when playing the ghost. When playing straight pool, unless you are really, really good, you need the rolls to make a good run. One unlucky break out will end your run prematurely more often then not.
That said, a player who plays both games equally often, will most likely make a high run of 50 before being able to beat the ghost in a medium-long race. Hence my stance that the ghost is more difficult.
I've never played the 8 ball ghost, but I imagine it would be easier than the other two by a good margin. Most B players are the favorite to run out an open 8 ball rack with ball in hand.
Why? Because the rolls don't have much of a role (ba dum tsh) when playing the ghost. When playing straight pool, unless you are really, really good, you need the rolls to make a good run. One unlucky break out will end your run prematurely more often then not.
That said, a player who plays both games equally often, will most likely make a high run of 50 before being able to beat the ghost in a medium-long race. Hence my stance that the ghost is more difficult.
I've never played the 8 ball ghost, but I imagine it would be easier than the other two by a good margin. Most B players are the favorite to run out an open 8 ball rack with ball in hand.
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I think it really depends on what you are used to playing. I only beat 8 ball ghost about 25% of the time but it would probably take me 20 racks or more to beat the 9 ball ghost just once because I rarely play rotation. I need to find more people to play 9/10 ball I guess. I would probably struggle at straight pool too because of the break, I play Fargo but there you get to break normally.
50 ball run is tough on any table.
I picked the current leader: 50 ball run > 9 ball ghost > 8 ball ghost, but I think the answer may vary depending on how you interpret the question.
I believe that any player that is capable of running 50 balls is going to be more likely to beat the 9-ball ghost in a race than they are to run 50, because you can make a mistake against the ghost and still win the race but lose as soon as you miss in the 50 ball run. Therefore, if I was going to bet on someone (who is capable of doing either one) doing one or the other given one try, I would have them play the 9-ball ghost.
However, if you read the question as "Which if these are you more likely to do first in your development as a player if you attempt them all equally from the start?", I would say that you're more likely to run 50 balls first just by getting a few lucky breaks in a row.
I believe that any player that is capable of running 50 balls is going to be more likely to beat the 9-ball ghost in a race than they are to run 50, because you can make a mistake against the ghost and still win the race but lose as soon as you miss in the 50 ball run. Therefore, if I was going to bet on someone (who is capable of doing either one) doing one or the other given one try, I would have them play the 9-ball ghost.
However, if you read the question as "Which if these are you more likely to do first in your development as a player if you attempt them all equally from the start?", I would say that you're more likely to run 50 balls first just by getting a few lucky breaks in a row.
I agree, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I think it depends on how you read the question. I think anyone that can do either a 50 ball run or beat the 9-ball ghost to 10 has a higher probability of beating the ghost on a given try. In fact, I think that anyone that can step up and run 50 balls even 1 out of 5 attempts would beat the ghost nearly every time.
I would agree. Those exclusive short-rack rotation players who think that if they can beat the 9-ball ghost "can very easily or even 'automatically'" run 50 balls in straight pool -- especially with observations like "are you sure? when most of the balls are at one end of the table?" -- most likely never really taken a crack at running 50 balls. It's a LOT harder than one thinks. Just because you can shoot at any ball, doesn't mean it's a "plink-plink-plink...-plink, ok, rack the rest & watch me smash 'em" shooting gallery. It's a game of patterns, not of shooting ability. Sure, good shooting skills will help you (especially when getting out of a jam / bad pattern / bad cue ball control), but in the end, it's pocketing consistency, cue ball consistency, and patterns-to-the-end that win the day.
In the 14.1 Challenges (e.g. at the SBE, DCC), we see it all the time. Folks that have considerable 9-ball chops (and I mean that in a good way -- like "wow, that's one heck of a stroke he has!") -- that can move whitey all over the table -- can't get out of one rack in straight pool, or the position for the break ball is so bad, that cue ball heroics or a white flag shot needs to be attempted, which turns out to be a coin flip.
It was said best earlier -- at least with the ghost, you can miss and you still have a chance to win the match. In a 50-ball run attempt, if you miss before 50 is achieved, the run is over.
-Sean
I think the fair comparison is the 9 ball ghost to a 100 ball run, not a 50.
It takes an A player in each game to beat the 9 ball ghost (regularly, not once in their lives) and have runs over 100.
B players will run 50 to 75 once in their lives. To get 100 you really need to be able to play.
Of course I'm talking about 9' tables.
So to answer the original question, I feel for a player "who is equally adept at both 9 ball and straight pool" 50 balls is significantly easier than the 9 ball ghost.
Now, if you take an A 9 ball player who has never played straight pool, that's a different story altogether.
It takes an A player in each game to beat the 9 ball ghost (regularly, not once in their lives) and have runs over 100.
B players will run 50 to 75 once in their lives. To get 100 you really need to be able to play.
Of course I'm talking about 9' tables.
So to answer the original question, I feel for a player "who is equally adept at both 9 ball and straight pool" 50 balls is significantly easier than the 9 ball ghost.
Now, if you take an A 9 ball player who has never played straight pool, that's a different story altogether.
You can look at it simply as walking into your average pool hall. The best players in the room will probably be favorites to beat the 8 and 9 ball ghost, but in this day and age, you're not going to find many players who are favorites to run 50 in straight pool even with a ball-in-hand start.
What if you went back in time to 1970 where everyone played both games?
I also think one bih try is not enough, even for a pro. Something more like give an A player all day, and I'd empty out hed be ahead of the 9 ball ghost and also have run 50 or more. 1970 players I'm talking about, who are "equally adept at both games"
That might simply be a function of how many players play each game regularly, rather than how difficult each task is.
This seems about right to me.