Which Way? Low Or Left?

[DrCue'sProtege]

Which way do you hit this shot to get position on the 8B? With a little low? Or center ball with a tip of left english? Or......perhaps just a hair of low left?

It looks to me like most of the pros on the Accu-Stats videos are hitting this shot low. But, then again, on those videos its hard to see where exactly the tip contacts the CB.

r/DCP

https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/721c6.png

 

[Oikawa]

Depends on table conditions, pocket size, current confidence, etc. But most commonly with just low, no side. Slightly fuller angle and might go for a stun shot with left. Bottom left not for me, that's a more touchy shot than the others, although move the balls around a bit and it becomes the best option. Always so hard to answer these diagrams, when moving the balls just by a hair might change the preference.

 

[David in FL]

Center left brings it around nicely.

Just take care with speed as that side pocket gets disturbingly big when the cue ball is headed that way...

 

[Patrick Johnson]

KISS - stun hit; no side

pj
chgo

 

[Poolmanis]

KISS - stun hit; no side

pj
chgo

View attachment 806406

You are actually adding component that is making shot more difficult. Stun creates a lot of friction and if you miss your stun effect you miss shot too. Soft speed a lot middle left makes this easiest..
Same can be said about soft middle english but margin of error is larger on that.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You are actually adding component that is making shot more difficult. Stun creates a lot of friction and if you miss your stun effect you miss shot too. Soft speed a lot middle left makes this easiest..
Same can be said about soft middle english but margin of error is larger on that.

For me not maximizing squirt/swerve is simpler, but you do you.

pj
chgo

 

[Poolmanis]

For me not maximizing squirt/swerve is simpler, but you do you.

pj
chgo

Well. I like to put these kind of concepts to test. Shoot both ways options 20 times and compare results.. I know my results already.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Shoot both ways options 20 times and compare results.

I think my 50+ years of playing has done that.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

i think the answer has to do with how open or closed you want the angle to be coming off the second rail

 

[Patrick Johnson]

i think the answer has to do with how open or closed you want the angle to be coming off the second rail

And/or what angle you want going into the first rail.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

i think the answer has to do with how open or closed you want the angle to be coming off the second rail

And/or what angle you want going into the first rail.

pj
chgo

those can be/ are connected
i should not have assumed everyone knows your post affects my post

 

[Bob Jewett]

... It looks to me like most of the pros on the Accu-Stats videos are hitting this shot low. But, then again, on those videos its hard to see where exactly the tip contacts the CB. ....

You should be able to tell by the angle the cue ball takes off the object ball what kind of follow/draw it has when it gets to the object ball.

I think the majority of top players will play that with left and maybe left draw to get nearer the corner. (At that speed and distance, you will usually need to start with draw to arrive with stun.)

 

[FranCrimi]

KISS - stun hit; no side

pj
chgo

View attachment 806406

I don't like this angle for stun. The hit is too thin for me for a stun shot. I would feel it's difficult to control the stopping point of the cb with that shot. I would use low and maybe one tip of left, medium soft hit would do the trick.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

(At that speed and distance, you will usually need to start with draw to arrive with stun.)

This is an excellent point!!!

 

[Mensabum]

Which way do you hit this shot to get position on the 8B? With a little low? Or center ball with a tip of left english? Or......perhaps just a hair of low left?

It looks to me like most of the pros on the Accu-Stats videos are hitting this shot low. But, then again, on those videos its hard to see where exactly the tip contacts the CB.

r/DCP

https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/721c6.png

Center low come back mid table to avoid the side. Easy cut on he 8.

 

[WobblyStroke]

As evidenced by the posts above, personal preference def comes into play here. I think Bob is right tho that most top players hit this with low left. Looks like the 2 best players to respond chose low left as well.

 

[Mensabum]

As evidenced by the posts above, personal preference def comes into play here. I think Bob is right tho that most top players hit this with low left. Looks like the 2 best players to respond chose low left as well.

Why use juice if you don't need it??

 

[Island Drive]

In most all shots, less is more.
Less variables one induces on whitey, the better ones chances of the ''make''.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Why use juice if you don't need it??

It just comes down to what makes the shot highest percentage to execute for the individual player. While a less experienced player will likely find much more success staying on the center axis, a more experienced player will effortlessly and subconsciously adjust for throw/swerve and gain the benefit of a more predictable ball interaction (aka fewer skids) with a little outside spin. The spin also allows for a softer hit to get shape as the spin will help the cb along off the rails. Spin also saves a bad hit that strikes cb too high and helps the cb come back across the table for the 8 by widening the angle off the first rail, but this is more of a tertiary benefit and most guys who prefer to use spin aren't misjudging how high they hit the cb too often.

Some top players employ a philosophy of always favoring a little bit of spin because it makes contacts more predictable. You ever hear Earl commentary and his predictions for shots? Rarely ever is there not at least a little bit of english on what he thinks is the right shot. Seigel and Ronnie O'Sullivan are also on record saying they never try to hit the center axis. While these legends are at the extreme, many shots are just played a certain way (with english) as the pro standard and a lot of them don't 'need' spin. My favorite example of this was JJ commenting on a world championship match where a player had a cut into the side and had to stun off the ball. The CB would not reach a rail. JJ quipped, "Now the internet will tell you this shot doesn't need any spin on it, but you'd struggle to find a pro that doesn't hit this with low outside".

Spin makes the game easier, not harder. That's the camp I'm in and I'm in good company,. But I certainly don't blame players for employing the KISS method and leaning on shots they've chosen and shot 1000s of times. It's not like most of us are at the sniper level of the top guys where the likelihood of skids makes a significant difference in make %, anyway. Shooting it the way you are most comfortable getting the job done is likely the best approach for most. Though it should be telling when the majority of the best players prefer to spin it,.

 

[Oikawa]

It just comes down to what makes the shot highest percentage to execute for the individual player. While a less experienced player will likely find much more success staying on the center axis, a more experienced player will effortlessly and subconsciously adjust for throw/swerve and gain the benefit of a more predictable ball interaction (aka fewer skids) with a little outside spin. The spin also allows for a softer hit to get shape as the spin will help the cb along off the rails. Spin also saves a bad hit that strikes cb too high and helps the cb come back across the table for the 8 by widening the angle off the first rail, but this is more of a tertiary benefit and most guys who prefer to use spin aren't misjudging how high they hit the cb too often.

Some top players employ a philosophy of always favoring a little bit of spin because it makes contacts more predictable. You ever hear Earl commentary and his predictions for shots? Rarely ever is there not at least a little bit of english on what he thinks is the right shot. Seigel and Ronnie O'Sullivan are also on record saying they never try to hit the center axis. While these legends are at the extreme, many shots are just played a certain way (with english) as the pro standard and a lot of them don't 'need' spin. My favorite example of this was JJ commenting on a world championship match where a player had a cut into the side and had to stun off the ball. The CB would not reach a rail. JJ quipped, "Now the internet will tell you this shot doesn't need any spin on it, but you'd struggle to find a pro that doesn't hit this with low outside".

Spin makes the game easier, not harder. That's the camp I'm in and I'm in good company,. But I certainly don't blame players for employing the KISS method and leaning on shots they've chosen and shot 1000s of times. It's not like most of us are at the sniper level of the top guys where the likelihood of skids makes a significant difference in make %, anyway. Shooting it the way you are most comfortable getting the job done is likely the best approach for most. Though it should be telling when the majority of the best players prefer to spin it,.

I agree with 95% of what you are saying, and while bottom left is good for this particular shot, I disagree with your bolded statement being a positive thing.

In general, one reason we want to use extra rails for the CB is to make our mistakes in speed control matter less for the outcome. For the same reason, in general, it's better to pick paths/spins that are less sensitive to speed, which would be the opposite from what you are saying. Obviously there's a limit to how hard you can shoot without your technique failing, but as long as this limit isn't reached, shot selections that are less sensitive to speed (and generally less soft, since rails kill speed and more rails are reached by applying more speed) are generally better.

Put in another way, a softer hit to achieve the same CB outcome will be more sensitive to speed than an alternative path, which is a bad thing.