Which Way? Low Or Left?

Oikawa said:
I agree with 95% of what you are saying, and while bottom left is good for this particular shot, I disagree with your bolded statement being a positive thing.

In general, the reason we want to use extra rails for the CB is to make the small changes in speed control matter less for the outcome. For the same reason, in general, it's better to pick paths/spins that are less sensitive to speed, which would be the opposite from what you are saying. Obviously there's a limit to how hard you can shoot without your technique failing, but as long as this limit isn't reached, shot selections that are less sensitive to speed (and generally less soft, since rails kill speed and more rails are reached by applying more speed) are generally better.

Put in another way, a softer hit to achieve the same CB outcome will be more sensitive to speed than an alternative path, which is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
I agree on why we use multiple rail paths but that bolded statement was just meant to convey that you can execute the shot with a stroke that is easier to execute than a harder stroke required to stun it around. It's not like we are babying the ball, but a smooth comfortable stroke will get the job done on even a relatively slow table whereas a stun shot may need a little extra pop in the stroke that can hurt a player's ability to deliver the cue correctly as often. Perhaps not much of a difference on the shot as diagrammed, but if we have a bit fuller hit or a slower than usual table, the difference in speed of stroke required between a stun shot and one with left on it can become significant imo.
 
WobblyStroke said:
I agree on why we use multiple rail paths but that bolded statement was just meant to convey that you can execute the shot with a stroke that is easier to execute than a harder stroke required to stun it around. It's not like we are babying the ball, but a smooth comfortable stroke will get the job done on even a relatively slow table whereas a stun shot may need a little extra pop in the stroke that can hurt a player's ability to deliver the cue correctly as often. Perhaps not much of a difference on the shot as diagrammed, but if we have a bit fuller hit or a slower than usual table, the difference in speed of stroke required between a stun shot and one with left on it can become significant imo.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, in my framework of explanation I'd then say the same thing as; in this case the stun option would be hit hard enough to start causing technical issues, which then makes it subpar compared to the other option. So yeah, nothing I disagree with you on then.
 
Low is a bad idea on this shot. Ideally you are looking to shot the 8 right where you are at. You're just barely going past the nine ball on that shot hitting low, possibly running into it. Also your speed needs to be spot on with low. A center ball hit, will hit the top rail shorter and bring the cue ball further towards the center of the table and you also don't need to be as precise with speed on the ball.
 
Zerksies said:
Low is a bad idea on this shot. Ideally you are looking to shot the 8 right where you are at. You're just barely going past the nine ball on that shot hitting low, possibly running into it. Also your speed needs to be spot on with low. A center ball hit, will hit the top rail shorter and bring the cue ball further towards the center of the table and you also don't need to be as precise with speed on the ball.
Click to expand...
CB is over 3 diamonds away. As Bob mentioned, 'you have to hit low, to arrive with stun' at this distance. A centerball hit arrives with roll and would require a cpl tips of left to get around the table reasonably close to the 8. I think center ball ends up with a big cut on the 8 often as cb likely won't make it back to center table let alone past it to the 8ball side.
 
Here's how VP4 models the shots:
- rolling with no spin
- stun with no spin
- rolling with left

Only small differences in outcome. Which is easiest/most consistent probably depends on the player.

pj
chgo

shots.png
 
Last edited:
Patrick Johnson said:
Here's how VP4 models the shots:
- rolling with no spin
- stun with no spin
- rolling with left

Only small differences in outcome. Which is easiest/most consistent probably depends on the player.
Click to expand...
If you still have the position stored... How about with low left? Does that keep the cue ball closer to the eight?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
WobblyStroke said:
CB is over 3 diamonds away. As Bob mentioned, 'you have to hit low, to arrive with stun' at this distance. A centerball hit arrives with roll and would require a cpl tips of left to get around the table reasonably close to the 8. I think center ball ends up with a big cut on the 8 often as cb likely won't make it back to center table let alone past it to the 8ball side.
Click to expand...
I think you all are wacko. I can easily repeat this shot everytime
 
Patrick....
Humm, doesn't seem.
But Pat, you know it IS different and the results are not going to be the same.
Depending on conditions and if it's a 9', I may and come 4 rails around landing Whitey in the area it started from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
There are indeed very few shots that require a specific spot on the cue ball, bridge length, or stroke technique. A common exercise you may have practiced is to not shoot the 1-ball until you can think of at least three different routes to position yourself for the 2-ball.

In this thread's scenario, players debate two possible plays or three if you take degree of spin into account.

For shots other than the one being discussed, I advise students to focus on the vertical axis to minimize variables. However, adding a little soft left spin is perfectly acceptable. Ultimately, whatever enables you to achieve the runout is fine by me.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
There are indeed very few shots that require a specific spot on the cue ball, bridge length, or stroke technique.
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand, but in order to produce a specific outcome (CB and OB travel chosen paths) you have to hit the CB on the same spot at the same angle and speed (maybe even with the same cue).

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
Patrick Johnson said:
Not sure I understand, but in order to produce a specific outcome (CB and OB travel chosen paths) you have to hit the CB on the same spot at the same angle and speed (maybe even with the same cue). ...
Click to expand...
The exception to this that people usually point out is that if you have a straight shot, you can play follow, stop, and draw exact positions with various combinations of height on the cue ball and speed, such as more speed and less draw to come back a foot.

However, if you have a half-ball shot, and you want to move the cue ball 27 inches at an angle of 70 degrees (from the cue ball's original path), then there is only one combination of speed and draw that will work. A small nit: you can add sidespin, but it's of very minor influence if you're not going to hit a cushion.

Of course if you include all possible paths that can take you from the object ball to the position spot including some number of cushions, then you can end up with an infinite number of ways.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Not sure I understand, but in order to produce a specific outcome (CB and OB travel chosen paths) you have to hit the CB on the same spot at the same angle and speed (maybe even with the same cue).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
I apologize for the confusion. For certain shots, I would recommend using only a very short bridge or applying English to enhance the shot, among other techniques. However, with the OP shot, there are multiple correct approaches, and some of the debate surrounding it seems unnecessary.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The exception to this that people usually point out is that if you have a straight shot, you can play follow, stop, and draw exact positions with various combinations of height on the cue ball and speed, such as more speed and less draw to come back a foot.

However, if you have a half-ball shot, and you want to move the cue ball 27 inches at an angle of 70 degrees (from the cue ball's original path), then there is only one combination of speed and draw that will work. A small nit: you can add sidespin, but it's of very minor influence if you're not going to hit a cushion.

Of course if you include all possible paths that can take you from the object ball to the position spot including some number of cushions, then you can end up with an infinite number of ways.
Click to expand...
Thanks - that's a good exception to keep in mind.

pj
chgo
 
There have been a lot of prescriptions but the doctor has not asked questions to diagnose the problem. Does the patient understand a tangent line? Can do a stun shot? Is comfortable with English? As we often joked about in the Army...Ready. Fire. Aim.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Not sure I understand, but in order to produce a specific outcome (CB and OB travel chosen paths) you have to hit the CB on the same spot at the same angle and speed (maybe even with the same cue).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Yes, to get a specific outcome all variables need to be the same. But on this shot, with a large window for acceptable position on the 8, we can get a good outcome in a variety of ways. We're not all Chin Shun Yang, slamming his chalk down in frustration over what most would consider perfect shape just because he missed the postage stamp he was trying to land on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top