Who benefits more from last pocket 8ball? Better players or bangers?

Some posters are forgetting that the banger ALSO has to make the 8-ball in the last pocket, which imo, negates the advantage he/she may have gained from getting to the table more.

If I'm playing a banger last pocket, and I get down to the 8-ball, I'm using my 1-pocket skills to move the 8-ball close to my "hole". Unless this banger can run down to the 8-ball AND have the skill to "move" the 8-ball to near their hole, they are toast. And...if they do have the skill to run down then properly move the 8-ball....they're probably not what I'd call a banger, in the definition of one.

Maniac (just one man's opinion)
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
Seriously Poolkiller, you don't ask questions about the game.
You are always asking questions about the process.

The question you should be asking is, "How do I go about learning?"
That's the only "process" question that should concern you.
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Lost cause man. Sometimes you just have to give up.
This is his mindset (in his own words):
I am a banger and I'm proud of that.

Every one of his threads is about banging and the underdog beating the skilled player,
or casual barbox play and how to maximize slop and lucky rolls.
This isn't someone who is interested in learning.
This is someone who wants attention more than respect.
 
There is no advantage to either player. It does cut down on the number of quarters you put up.
 
The weaker player may win more games on technicalities - stronger player is playing more banks and other tough shots on the 8, which may lead to scratches/uncalled pockets. Aside from that, I'm not sure. Most weaker players are their own worst enemies at 8-ball; they clear traffic off of the table and then miss, leaving easy runouts for stronger players. That, I would think, would only be exacerbated by last pocket rules.

Simple fact is, if the stronger player is getting 3 or 4 whacks at the black while you are still trying to pocket your colors, you're gonna lose most of the time anyway.

Aaron
 
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Aaron_S said:
The weaker player may win more games on technicalities - stronger player is playing more banks and other tough shots on the 8, which may lead to scratches/uncalled pockets. Aside from that, I'm not sure. Most weaker players are their own worst enemies at 8-ball; they clear traffic off of the table and then miss, leaving easy runouts for stronger players. That, I would think, would only be exacerbated by last pocket rules.

Simple fact is, if the stronger player is getting 3 or 4 whacks at the black while you are still trying to pocket your colors, you're gonna lose most of the time anyway.

Aaron
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I agree for the most part "Simple fact is, if the stronger player is getting 3 or 4 whacks at the black while you are still trying to pocket your colors, you're gonna lose most of the time anyway.", but if your that I was thinking about the weaker player not being just a banger, someone who can run 3 - 7 balls in an ining if the table is open. So if I'm getting 3 - 4 whacks at the 8, it's another story...
 
Pete said:
I agree for the most part "Simple fact is, if the stronger player is getting 3 or 4 whacks at the black while you are still trying to pocket your colors, you're gonna lose most of the time anyway.", but if your that I was thinking about the weaker player not being just a banger, someone who can run 3 - 7 balls in an ining if the table is open. So if I'm getting 3 - 4 whacks at the 8, it's another story...
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True, the number of innings may vary, but that sword can cut both ways too. Given the choice, I'd much rather my opponent run 7 balls than 3.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
True, the number of innings may vary, but that sword can cut both ways too. Given the choice, I'd much rather my opponent run 7 balls than 3.

Aaron
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See, I would not. My porsonal strategy relies on keeping your opponent's balls on the table as long as possible and pocketing my own as fast as I can. The strategy itself is actually quite complicated, and unfortunately I don't have the time to go into details, but let's just say I prefer clearing the table and having only the 8 to worry about. Every ball besides 8 can potentially be a trouble.
 
Push&Pool said:
See, I would not. My porsonal strategy relies on keeping your opponent's balls on the table as long as possible and pocketing my own as fast as I can. The strategy itself is actually quite complicated, and unfortunately I don't have the time to go into details, but let's just say I prefer clearing the table and having only the 8 to worry about. Every ball besides 8 can potentially be a trouble.
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Which makes you a banger so last pocket rules don't benefit you.
 
Push&Pool said:
See, I would not. My porsonal strategy relies on keeping your opponent's balls on the table as long as possible and pocketing my own as fast as I can. The strategy itself is actually quite complicated, and unfortunately I don't have the time to go into details, but let's just say I prefer clearing the table and having only the 8 to worry about. Every ball besides 8 can potentially be a trouble.
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You will do a 180 on that strategy once you advance to a certain level. No reason to worry about it now - you will figure it out as you go and as your capabilities increase. Most of us believe/do certain things exactly the wrong way in the early stages.

Best of luck,
Aaron
 
Push&Pool said:
Don't worry, I am a banger and I'm proud of that :) but my question was, if in normal 8ball the chances of the banger to win against a good player are 1 out of 10, then in last pocket version will those chances rise to like 1/5 or drop to, let's say, 1/20? In other words, does last pocket 8 ball partially even the playing field or does it increase the skill gap further?
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more than likely, the odds would increase for the better player........ 1-10 was your example, which honestly only would happen if the better player lets the banger win.

last pocket would allow the better player lots of options to out move and win the game, I think the better player would win all the time against a banger, a Middle to low C or D player.
 
Pete said:
I agree for the most part "Simple fact is, if the stronger player is getting 3 or 4 whacks at the black while you are still trying to pocket your colors, you're gonna lose most of the time anyway.", but if your that I was thinking about the weaker player not being just a banger, someone who can run 3 - 7 balls in an ining if the table is open. So if I'm getting 3 - 4 whacks at the 8, it's another story...
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It does depend on what each of us is envisioning as the skill level of the stronger player in this scenario. Most really good players that understand the game will not get 3 or 4 whacks at the 8 ball because they will likely leave at least a couple of balls on the table until they have an out. Until that point they will probably just be moving balls to create that 3,4,or 5 ball out.
 
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MahnaMahna said:
Which makes you a banger so last pocket rules don't benefit you.
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I am a banger, that's nothing new. I'm also a regular last pocket player. Maybe it's just me, but I figured out some strategies which allow me to sometimes turn the tables on my opponent even when I'm losing badly. I don't think that would be possible if we played regular 8ball.
 
I have a small 9 ball pool tournaments every week. Last week one of the players I support who is ranked number 4 in my pool room played a banger, 9 ball, race to 4, and lost. The banger would not have a chance at beating this player playing no slop games. The player that lost won first place last week and another week he took third place. The top six players are in the money. I'm slowly turning some of the bangers into players but it is a slow process.
 
CreeDo said:
Lost cause man. Sometimes you just have to give up.
This is his mindset (in his own words):
I am a banger and I'm proud of that.

Every one of his threads is about banging and the underdog beating the skilled player,
or casual barbox play and how to maximize slop and lucky rolls.
This isn't someone who is interested in learning.
This is someone who wants attention more than respect.
Click to expand...

Right. I forgot... "cyber-attention" at that...

Tangent: I heard a new phrase watching a stream last night. The commentator called all the guys in the chat "cyber-sweaters"

I tried to rep you CreeDo, but I haven't spread enough cyber-rep around since last time.

Fatz
 
I think the weaker players chances of winning each game, go up by a small amount. Reason being, more can go wrong for the better player. Better player might not be able to finish as easily, thus giving up another shot. Being out of line one time or missing a bank could cost you the game. The guy can get lucky position on the 8 himself, leave you a tough bank, or luck a safety no matter how bad he is. Bad things that wouldn't otherwise happen, can happen.
 
Bambu said:
I think the weaker players chances of winning each game, go up by a small amount. Reason being, more can go wrong for the better player. Better player might not be able to finish as easily, thus giving up another shot. Being out of line one time or missing a bank could cost you the game. The guy can get lucky position on the 8 himself, leave you a tough bank, or luck a safety no matter how bad he is. Bad things that wouldn't otherwise happen, can happen.
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I respectfully disagree. I tend to agree with the notion that the more complicated the game gets, the better chance the more skilled player has.

Take the game of slop 8-ball, or 9-ball. Almost anyone has a chance of winning a single game of those two formats. Somewhat of a chance in very short sets. Now......change the game to 1-pocket or 14.1 and I'll bet the weaker players have a tough time winning a single game, let alone a short set (or a higher ball count in 14.1).

The tougher the game gets, the more the wheat (not Eddie :rolleyes:) gets separated from the chaff.

I do not think you are wrong, just that our opinions differ.

Maniac
 
neither benefit.

Better player is still the better player.

Weaker player will have the same short coming.
 
Maniac said:
I respectfully disagree. I tend to agree with the notion that the more complicated the game gets, the better chance the more skilled player has.

Take the game of slop 8-ball, or 9-ball. Almost anyone has a chance of winning a single game of those two formats. Somewhat of a chance in very short sets. Now......change the game to 1-pocket or 14.1 and I'll bet the weaker players have a tough time winning a single game, let alone a short set (or a higher ball count in 14.1).

The tougher the game gets, the more the wheat (not Eddie :rolleyes:) gets separated from the chaff.

I do not think you are wrong, just that our opinions differ.

Maniac
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Of course, all just opinion here. I don't think you are wrong either.

The way I see it, the weak player needs luck to win no matter what game it is. More times at the table he gets, the better his chances. He might only get one shot in a regular game, so even one extra shot would double his chances of doing damage. Miss just one shot, and bad things can happen....intentionally or not. Happens more on a small table with lots of traffic.

A game like last pocket or bank the 8 decreases the chances of finishing, might make the run out harder. This would not effect a pro as much, but A's and B's could run into trouble.
 
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