Very perceptive post.....100% agreement.
Who best to head a new Players org?
- Thread starter Nostroke
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Very perceptive post.....100% agreement.
What about Amateurs?
I havent read all of the posts
I'm sure its needed but what bothers me about a Pro Players Advocacy is that it seems to have no legs without support from Amateurs. Pool is a very fractured up society it seems with no one wanting to support anyone but themselves and how you fix that is going to be quite a doing.
I havent read all of the posts
I'm sure its needed but what bothers me about a Pro Players Advocacy is that it seems to have no legs without support from Amateurs. Pool is a very fractured up society it seems with no one wanting to support anyone but themselves and how you fix that is going to be quite a doing.
I agree with the amateur thing. To me the question is how do you even begin to interest an amateur in pro pool without something to give them? Without the ability to say "These guys are the pros, these are the events only they are allowed to play in and here is the schedule where you can see them." Without something as basic as that there is zero reason to expect any amateur to care about anything related to pro pool in my opinion.
Not really. Did you see how the players lined up like ducks for Trudeau when he flashed the money before their eyes?
There's only one thing that will keep them in line and organized, and that's money --- Lots of it.
Without the promise of money, they will act up, rebel, argue and walk away, regardless of who takes over the controls. Learn from history.
:thumbup2: :thumbup2:
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Unfortunately.
There was not a lot of money when the PGA was formed but it was a different generation with a different type of character.
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I agree
In my opinion
Pool as far as keeping the Popularity it had in the 70's was immediately screwed the minute that the BCA went back to being a trade organization.
They simply thought the numbers would be on their side. I don't think they knew that the fallout would be so large as to threaten nearly every pool room in the nation. Even if they hadnt made the move they did...I dont think much of what has happened would have been preventable.
The price of commercial space is such that pool cannot support it on its own. Thats a death nell if there ever was one. The only chance at support is finding a business that needs to attract people and uses Pool as bait.
That hasnt availed itself.
When rooms close, less cloth is used, less tables and chalk are sold etc. Its a downhill slide.
Its simple, the industry has to figure out a way to make Pool Rooms work.
If Pool Rooms don't work or cant work without sizeable investments. Its going to be hard to put legs under any type of organization.
At the very least there needs to be a way to expose the general public to pool in a way that attracts new people to it. The existing pool players many of them are into it for themselves to the point that I would doubt they are going to support anything as a collective. Tables are already moving to homes. I would have never considered it myself but here I am making plans to close in the Garage and invite people I know in to play.
Just yesterday I called a realtor about a space for pool and I will tell you unless you are getting a sitting empty warehouse that hasnt been rented in a number of years....affordable you might not find.
As a business pool makes no sense if you want to keep or make money, if you are a start up.
Thats the problem.
In my opinion
Pool as far as keeping the Popularity it had in the 70's was immediately screwed the minute that the BCA went back to being a trade organization.
They simply thought the numbers would be on their side. I don't think they knew that the fallout would be so large as to threaten nearly every pool room in the nation. Even if they hadnt made the move they did...I dont think much of what has happened would have been preventable.
The price of commercial space is such that pool cannot support it on its own. Thats a death nell if there ever was one. The only chance at support is finding a business that needs to attract people and uses Pool as bait.
That hasnt availed itself.
When rooms close, less cloth is used, less tables and chalk are sold etc. Its a downhill slide.
Its simple, the industry has to figure out a way to make Pool Rooms work.
If Pool Rooms don't work or cant work without sizeable investments. Its going to be hard to put legs under any type of organization.
At the very least there needs to be a way to expose the general public to pool in a way that attracts new people to it. The existing pool players many of them are into it for themselves to the point that I would doubt they are going to support anything as a collective. Tables are already moving to homes. I would have never considered it myself but here I am making plans to close in the Garage and invite people I know in to play.
Just yesterday I called a realtor about a space for pool and I will tell you unless you are getting a sitting empty warehouse that hasnt been rented in a number of years....affordable you might not find.
As a business pool makes no sense if you want to keep or make money, if you are a start up.
Thats the problem.
Thats very true, but the PGA has been around forever !...Eventually, it took the amazing star power of Arnold Palmer, to make it attractive to big money sponsors, and of course the rest is history !...I have mentioned this before, the Pro Bowlers Assn, was formed fairly recently.. (1959)..The PBA was also lacking big dollar sponsors.. Even though, with the advent of the automatic pinsetter, huge, fancy bowling palaces sprung up everywhere, there was still no TV coverage to speak of !..Several of the top bowlers got together, and hired a top public relations firm, and bowling enjoyed a rebirth, and a long healthy run of high $$$ tournaments.
Casinos and Card mfgs. did the same thing, and look at the recent upsurge in 'Live Poker' on TV..Though both are now somewhat in decline, they still, (like tennis, and most other sports) provide a very decent income for the upper echelon of their pro's !..It is VERY unlikely, that any group of top pool pro player's, would EVER agree on something like the pro bowler's did..much less separate from the money to fund it ! (even if they had it)
So, unless a VERY well heeled 'pool loving angel' appears out of nowhere, it is not likely pro pool will do anything but continue to languish even further !..We all love the game, but sadly, it will probably always remain just a popular pastime, with mostly amateur league player's, who really only want a night or two out of the house, for a beer with the guy's (and girl's) :sorry:
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Does it HAVE to be one person? So basically they should be an expert in marketing and promotion, have business acumen, and knowledge of the pool industry? Not to mention all of the other moving parts such as logistics and admin. That's a lot for one person to do. Seems like CSI is in the best position to do this, but what is also needed is a major culture shift.
A great point was brought up. Everyone likes to focus on the pros, how many pros do you see paying table time, buying food and drinks to keep your favorite pool hall open and running? Who's buying all the cues and equipment? Organizing our game is pretty much an extreme case of herding cats. Mark Griffin also has another potential hidden gem with the BCAPL. With all the other sub-leagues running under it, that's an untapped resource.
A great point was brought up. Everyone likes to focus on the pros, how many pros do you see paying table time, buying food and drinks to keep your favorite pool hall open and running? Who's buying all the cues and equipment? Organizing our game is pretty much an extreme case of herding cats. Mark Griffin also has another potential hidden gem with the BCAPL. With all the other sub-leagues running under it, that's an untapped resource.
You are way off the point. There needs to be a leader for the pros so they can have a voice in different facets of the game, one of the most important is with the promoters such as Mark Griffin and CSI. Having CSI being the voice of the pros would be a conflict in interest.
Oh. Wasn't that already attempted with the ABP?
I've been thinking recently that a great tour model to follow might be the snooker PTC events.
Start with a smaller tour, maybe 32 players seeded into the last 64 of the event. Anyone else can enter, but they have to play through a round or two to get to the last 64 where they play one of the seeded 'pros'.
At the end of the season, the bottom whatever have to re-qualify for the tour. Any 'amateur' who finishes in the top 32 by the end of the season gets on the tour for season.
It's a rough concept, but I think it would work with a little fine tuning. And if you start the payouts at the last 64 or last 32, you can have some sort of guaranteed (albeit very small) income.
Thoughts?
Start with a smaller tour, maybe 32 players seeded into the last 64 of the event. Anyone else can enter, but they have to play through a round or two to get to the last 64 where they play one of the seeded 'pros'.
At the end of the season, the bottom whatever have to re-qualify for the tour. Any 'amateur' who finishes in the top 32 by the end of the season gets on the tour for season.
It's a rough concept, but I think it would work with a little fine tuning. And if you start the payouts at the last 64 or last 32, you can have some sort of guaranteed (albeit very small) income.
Thoughts?
OMG-Are you kidding? You dont seem to understand what im saying AT ALL! Of course they lined up for money but his tour wasnt viable, His business sense with pool was NO GOOD-It was terrible. He never had a chance at turning a profit . His being a business man with no pool knowledge other than what Sigel told him for Sigel's own benefit was a hindrance to say the least. YOU are the one who needs to learn from history.We dont need someone coming in throwing money around for 7 minutes and failing again- discouraging players forever.
ATM we just need someone with some brains to start an organization-don't even have dues the first year.-Promise a promoter that 60% of the players at minimum will show up for an $8k added event or something along those lines-80% for 15K. Something like that maybe> The Players will have to promote it like hell and make some progress crawling.
I dont have the answers and I'm no leader but there are people smarter than me who do have leadership skills and can rally the troops hopefully. They MUST know pool for sure and have a good business sense. This is what im talking about (generally)
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Yes and terribly with an INEPT Leader!!.That's why im asking who WOULD be a good leader? Did you ever hear the expression "if at first you don't succeed.......
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I will not campaign and if elected, I will not serve. :smile:
We dont need someone coming in throwing money around for 7 minutes and failing again- discouraging players forever.
What they need and what they will accept are two different things. That's what history shows.
My pick would be Mr. Wilson.
Formula should be Main Tour capped to 32 or 48 players with so good payouts everyone would make enough money to have pro status.
Then having worldwide qualifications that bring money to main tour. Sponsors of course needed too. Probably one main sponsor who get tour named by their company. Tour should include World Championships, U.S Open and one or two majors per year.
Much like snooker. That would probably need cooperation of that pro tour, WPA, EPBF and similar organizations. So much stuff should be working together it's unlikely to happen.
Formula should be Main Tour capped to 32 or 48 players with so good payouts everyone would make enough money to have pro status.
Then having worldwide qualifications that bring money to main tour. Sponsors of course needed too. Probably one main sponsor who get tour named by their company. Tour should include World Championships, U.S Open and one or two majors per year.
Much like snooker. That would probably need cooperation of that pro tour, WPA, EPBF and similar organizations. So much stuff should be working together it's unlikely to happen.