Who deleted my posts?

[manwon]

Guys, it's really begining to look like I need to start coming down on people so they feel the rules matter.

The board has been a bit shaky for the last couple of weeks and ever though it has settled some, there are still waves that are being made.

I'll ask this question seriously.

Is this what everyone wants?

Results?

Rude ( left to my interpretation and mood ) comments getting a warning and three strike yer out?

Add to that, people want validation that thier complaints are addressed publicly.

Since the people who complain deserve to know that action was taken, would it not be just as fair to tell the person who got warned, who complained about them?

How "fair" does everyone want it to get? Everyone painted with the same brush?

....or should I be allowed to use the liberty of judgement calls or strictly enforce the rules?

Let's hear it.

Mr. Wilson, you used the word fair above, as How fair does everyone want it to get.

Next you said that should everyone be painted with the same brush.

Mr. Wilson, if everyone is not painted with the same brush, how can anything you do be fair.

I suspect that some of the problems that are being brought farword, may be due to the fact that everyone is not being painted with the same brush.

Any Human Being, can and will be Bias given the right situation / circumstances, this is Human nature.

Maybe, before a moderator makes a change to a post or a major decision that can effect a single person or a group of people at least a certain number of Moderators should agree with the decision.

That way, there is less chance of Bias that can occur from having a bad day, or other personal feelings that effect us all at times.

Then the individuals concerned by the decision, should be contacted by the moderator that began the action, and told why the decision was made.

This should be the end of the story, if people want to air their opinions publicly as long as it is with AZ rules who cares.

Sir, with a Moderator majority, bias is as close to eliminated as possible.

While no system is perfect or will satisfy everyone all the time this system along with painting everyone with the same brush is fair.

I truly suspect that as long as, individual moderations are not placed in check by someone, Bias can only occur and judgment calls will not paint everyone with the same brush.

Craig

 

[pete-biker]

Some things that i've noticed on forums. At first amount of people is not that big and sooner or later most of the frequent posters really knows each others. A lot of people actually meet and spend time together in real life too. Then more and more people join the site, start posting and, at least are not that well known at the beginning, get replies that are written "the normal way" like old posters write to each others; some inside jokes/remarks, some insults that are tolerable between friends etc.

So finally my point: some waves are actually just a sign of a lively discussion, so not a negative thing. We, as users, just must keep in mind that when communicating in written form it's way too easy to be misunderstood and therefore we must limit our writings in correct and somewhat polite form just to avoid those mistakes. And you as moderators just have to tolerate up to certain level and keep in mind that not everybody is that good expressing things in written and maybe even a lot doesn't have skills to write exactly what they want in english.

So to all parties: K.I.S.S (keep it simple, stupid), calm down and think twice before hitting enter.

 

[JAM]

Some things that i've noticed on forums. At first amount of people is not that big and sooner or later most of the frequent posters really knows each others.

Some veteran posters on pool-related forums, chat rooms, bulletin boards, and NGs may be familiar with posters and/or trolls, from other than the discussion forum at AzBilliards. There are some posters who seem to have a propensity to flame, elsewhere and, unfortunately, here on occasion.

A lot of people actually meet and spend time together in real life too. Then more and more people join the site, start posting and, at least are not that well known at the beginning, get replies that are written "the normal way" like old posters write to each others; some inside jokes/remarks, some insults that are tolerable between friends etc.

Exactly right. Matter of fact, Pete-Biker, I've met some of the NICEST people in my life on AzBilliards in person and have formed nice friendships that I do truly treasure.

So finally my point: some waves are actually just a sign of a lively discussion, so not a negative thing. We, as users, just must keep in mind that when communicating in written form it's way too easy to be misunderstood and therefore we must limit our writings in correct and somewhat polite form just to avoid those mistakes.

Anybody who has taken a walk on the wild side, meaning some of the other pool forums, chat rooms, bulletin boards, and NGs, are well aware of forum culture. Flaming is one of the side effects of this environment, and in order to keep the integrity of the forum as a whole, the necessity of moderation, I think, is important.

I don't think it can be disputed that AzBilliards enjoys the largest readership of any pool-related website.

The reason for AzBilliards' popularity is multi-faceted. Personally, I think it's the diversity of the readership which separates it from the rest.

On the one hand, I do understand PoolSharkAllen's curiosity post, but on the other hand, I definitely welcome and appreciate the moderation. If moderation did not exist, thanks to a few nameless crackpots, this forum would go the way of others, infested with sucker-punching monkeys, clowns, and trolls whose interests, collectively or individually, seem to be geared towards tuning in every day and engaging in a war of words.

We each have a different view on what we think should be the accepted norm here at AzBilliards.

To to all parties: K.I.S.S (keep it simple, stupid), calm down and think twice before hitting enter.

That's the best message to be gleaned from the entire thread, thus far.

JAM

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

To AZhousepro and Mr. Wilson-

I think that arguments and insults are inevitable on any internet forum. Even if rules are made not to, people will get heated, because some people can make subtle comments about something, and it can really insult someone. For example, in the NPR forums regarding politics. Say a conservative makes a thread about how liberals are wrong on an issue (and vice versa), and includes a little jab at liberals in the post. It would obviously be silly to delete a post because of a small 'jab' that someone made, but that small 'jab' can really make the other side angry.

I have a solution. Make an alternate forum section for arguments threads. All threads that have arguments that are starting to get heated, just move them to that section. Put a sticky post up top as a warning, explaining that making threats, etc. will get you banned, but let people argue and insult all they want. That will separate the rest of the forum for people who don't want to get involved. I've noticed that alot of unsuspecting posters have gotten drawn into arguments and insults, because they were just making fun of the situation, trying to lighten things up.

I really think this would save the moderators and other people from alot of headaches.

Anyone else think this is a good idea? Thoughts please.

Cuetech: Every forum needs to have rules so that debates don't get out-of-hand. In this forum, the rules say that it's ok for posters to express differences of opinion but it's not ok for people to engage in name-calling and personal insults. Those are the rules that we agreed to abide by when we joined this forum. So until the rules are changed, they do need to be effectively enforced so that people take the existing rules seriously.

Personally, I have no desire to go to another section of the forum where people can insult each other all they want. Life is too short for this.

I also think that keeping the inflamatory postings in check can actually enhance the reputation of the AZB forum as a place for posters to meet online to have fun, to learn from each other, share experiences and improve our game. IMO, that's why we are all here.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Personally, I have no desire to go to another section of the forum where people can insult each other all they want. Life is too short for this.

I really don't get your point. If you have no desire to go to another section, don't do it. It's that simple. And it's not a section for insults, it's a section for threads from other sections that get out of hand with arguments. It will serve as a filter. People like you who don't want to see arguments won't have to by simply avoiding that section. This is the second time someone contradicted themself about this.

 

[Chris]

Guys, it's really begining to look like I need to start coming down on people so they feel the rules matter.

The board has been a bit shaky for the last couple of weeks and ever though it has settled some, there are still waves that are being made.

I'll ask this question seriously.

Is this what everyone wants?

Results?

Rude ( left to my interpretation and mood ) comments getting a warning and three strike yer out?

Add to that, people want validation that thier complaints are addressed publicly.

Since the people who complain deserve to know that action was taken, would it not be just as fair to tell the person who got warned, who complained about them?

How "fair" does everyone want it to get? Everyone painted with the same brush?

....or should I be allowed to use the liberty of judgement calls or strictly enforce the rules?

Let's hear it.

Since you asked . . .

I think the forum rules need to be clarified with respect to what is and what is not a personal attack.

IMO attacking a group of people, such as liberals / neo-conservatives or eight ball players / nine ball players does not constitute a personal attack. Insulting a prominent individual that does not post here (ie. Bush or Clinton) does not constitute a personal attack. Insulting an individual AZ poster IS a personal attack, and should not be tolerated by moderators. This is what I think, and may not reflect official AZ views.

Three strikes, you're out. Go six months without a warning, lose one strike. Go a year without a personal attack, and get a clean slate.

When a warning is given, give it publicly, while quoting the offending post.

In short, clarify the rules, and then enforce those rules strictly.

 

[i_maycotte]

Just comments...

Once a post is reported, just simply send the sender a "messege received" automated messege even...as of now it appears to fall into a black pit, not even sure if it goes anywhere.

And second...paint everyone with the same brush. I repeatedly see favoritism and posts deleted by moderators to cover up things and give others second, third, fourth chances. Equal but fair, please.

Don't shoot the messenger...they are simply trying to help you see that this board does NOT get out of control.

Thank you

 

[cubswin]

I personally think moderation is done enough as it is, and usually is done fairly.

If you can't call someone a idiot, then your already limiting to a large degree. Pool halls, pool forums, life in general has people that will rub you the wrong way. Big deal, get over it and don't be such a baby in my opinion.

If you are getting cursed or harrassed in every post you make then I understand complaining, but just because you something that others think are stupid and point it out shouldn't be a reason to complain to a moderator. Allen's examples in this thread are silly in my opinion, and probably why I wouldn't make a good moderator *lol*.

 

[chefjeff]

Some things that i've noticed on forums. At first amount of people is not that big and sooner or later most of the frequent posters really knows each others. A lot of people actually meet and spend time together in real life too. Then more and more people join the site, start posting and, at least are not that well known at the beginning, get replies that are written "the normal way" like old posters write to each others; some inside jokes/remarks, some insults that are tolerable between friends etc.

So finally my point: some waves are actually just a sign of a lively discussion, so not a negative thing. We, as users, just must keep in mind that when communicating in written form it's way too easy to be misunderstood and therefore we must limit our writings in correct and somewhat polite form just to avoid those mistakes. And you as moderators just have to tolerate up to certain level and keep in mind that not everybody is that good expressing things in written and maybe even a lot doesn't have skills to write exactly what they want in english.

So to all parties: K.I.S.S (keep it simple, stupid), calm down and think twice before hitting enter.

tap tap tap

You want us each to be responsible!!!! hmmmm...what a concept!

How come I can correspond and argue with complete opposites like LWW and hippiepool and not get into fights with either of them? Each of them replys to me as if I'm an ally of him. Hell, I even said individuals should be allowed to own nuclear weapons and nobody gave me sheet!

It's our response to others that allows a fight to grow. What if each of us realized that others canNOT control our emotions? It's just like sharking at the table: deal with it and handle it----and then win the game with your intellectual cuestick.

Mr. Wilson shouldn't have to do jack squat if we integrated the sharking concept into our posts.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Mr. Wilson]

There are many facets to this board. Not all of them are apprent even to me.

Allow me to clarify, Allen is not in the wrong. He has been polite and it is not his fault that I am frustrated and down right tired of some people's behavior.

He only asked the wrong question at the wrone time.

I am not upset with him, but I realize my frustration is showing with my shortness and poor wording at times.

Examples, examples....Please realize I am only making reference in the following, not calling anyone out.

Rude dog, second post into this thread. John has been much more controlled for a few months, but still is on his second warning.

If I take my interprtations of the rules to a literal sense, do I ban him for his input here?

More deserving of that attention would be some of our politicos and maybe Watchez.

None have been banned .......yet.

Since I have banned others for seemingly less offensive acts, should I let them all go? ( same brush, remember? )

John ( Rude dog ) personally reported this post himself.......eight ( 8 ) times.
over and over and over.............

Anyone remember what I was saying about all the emails I get for reported posts?

The word fair was mentioned. It may not alway ba apparent, but I strive to be fair and judicious with everyone.
I'm not a robot.

I have good day and bad days just like everone else. My bad days seem to be held more accountable than most.

The bottom line is civility. I have been trying to give people a bit more room, however it looks like one they have the freedom...they run amuck.

Let's just try and act like we would face to face. I believe that most of us would get along just fine if that were the case.

 

[pete-biker]

tap tap tap

You want us each to be responsible!!!! hmmmm...what a concept!


Jeff Livingston

Jeff, trust me..my signature is not by accident like it is. I'm able to be an a**hole and that i do sometimes and actually i don't care. When someone doesn't have any respect towrds me the respond will be the same.

You got my message loud and clear and i'm glad; english is not my language of origin and sometimes it's easy to make mistakes that are not meant to be.

(and about responsibility: isn't it that when you make the crime, do the time and carry on )

 

[jsp]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! This was done on a star wars board i use to frequent...

Bahahahaha! Star Wars board? Hehe, I can't believe you just admitted that.

jsp <~~~ Still wondering if Emperor Palpatine lost to Mace Windu on purpose in their lightsaber clash (of Episode 3) to facilitate Anakin's path towards the darkside.

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff, trust me..my signature is not by accident like it is. I'm able to be an a**hole and that i do sometimes and actually i don't care. When someone doesn't have any respect towrds me the respond will be the same.

(snip)

But why respond the same way? You don't HAVE to, do you?...that's my point. We each have a choice...I say use that freedom for profit.

If someone sharks me at the table, I don't plan ways to shark them back...I focus my efforts when it's my turn to shoot. That way, I thwart the cheating and hopefully win the game by not allowing my emotions to runaway from my management of them, thus hurting ME.

I, for the umpteenth time, refer all who have trouble with pool sharks and posting sharks, to the best book on this subject: The New Guide to Rational Living by Albert Ellis and Robert Harper. Once you integrate its principles, petty arguments such as those here, just seem to disappear from your life, replaced by real answers to real problems. It's weird, but true.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Hal]

How about instead of permanent bans, you give 1, 2, or 3 month bans? A one week ban is pretty much useless. You ban someone for 3 months, 6 months, or even a year, They'll get the message. There's hardly anything on here that warrants a lifetime ban. IMO.

 

[pete-biker]

But why respond the same way? You don't HAVE to, do you?...that's my point. We each have a choice...I say use that freedom for profit.


Jeff Livingston

Jeff, in my reply i said that respond will be a like, that is true and you are correct.

That is just a case again that you don't know me and i don't know you in person and we are facing the result. When i'm not polite to others it can as well mean that i don't even recognize those persons at all and in many cases that's the best way to show your point.

I do agree with you again, i actually think that we have close same thoughts but my lack of explaining that in english limits too much and some wrong impressinos are easy to make. (OMG, wasn't that what i was talking earlier)

 

[Timberly]

I've currently got two things in the works on here so I can't leave completely but after getting a PM from an unnamed person that along with a lot of others things, is IMO out of line, I just think it's best that I limit my time spent here.

I can still read news articles and post at other sites and stay up to date about the pool world as need be. This forum is not the only option out there that allows us to stay up to date.

Don't like something? Leave, it's a free country. I'll be utilizing that....I'll only be posting when something changes with the DCC raffle or the the BCAPL. My times not signing in here could be awhile. If you need to contact me, the best way to do it is to email me at the email address in my signature.

 

[Hal]

Blah Blah Blah

Hey you're from Belgium. I need Kim Clijsters and Justine Henin-Hardennes autographs ASAP. Thanks.

 

[pete-biker]

How about instead of permanent bans, you give 1, 2, or 3 month bans? A one week ban is pretty much useless. You ban someone for 3 months, 6 months, or even a year, They'll get the message. There's hardly anything on here that warrants a lifetime ban. IMO.

Hal, maybe it's OK to get lifetime when you cause someones death when writing something


Really, a ban of some months should calm down persons who has that bad habit of going out of line. I agree what you said.

 

[pete-biker]

Hey you're from Belgium. I need Kim Clijsters and Justine Henin-Hardennes autographs ASAP. Thanks.

Ok, i'll see what i can do...but just in case don't hold your breath while waiting.

 

[chefjeff]

I've currently got two things in the works on here so I can't leave completely but after getting a PM from an unnamed person that along with a lot of others things, is IMO out of line, I just think it's best that I limit my time spent here.

I can still read news articles and post at other sites and stay up to date about the pool world as need be. This forum is not the only option out there that allows us to stay up to date.

Don't like something? Leave, it's a free country. I'll be utilizing that....I'll only be posting when something changes with the DCC raffle or the the BCAPL. My times not signing in here could be awhile. If you need to contact me, the best way to do it is to email me at the email address in my signature.

Don 't leave just come some coward sharked ya! Damn, Timberly, you're one of the regulars here.

Stick around, please.

Jeff Livingston