Who is responsible --- for items not received

[Fast Lenny]

Just a question:

Buyer agrees to buy item from AZ seller. Not expensive item. Let's say $100.00 or so.

Seller ships item to buyer, using least expensive shipping, because of low cost of item sold.

Buyer does not receive item.

Seller has not requested premium shipping, insurance, or item tracking, due to minimal value of item transacted.

Buyer never receives item. Seller swears that item has been shipped.

Who is responsible to do what?

BTW: both buyer and seller have STELLAR iTrade ratings, so we will assume that both are telling the truth. i.e.; Buyer has really NOT received the item and Seller has really shipped the item as described.


Ya, Ya, Ya ..... I know: Nothing is listed for sale in this thread!

IMO if you ship something without insurance or tracking then your asking for trouble eventually. I have shipped hundreds of items ranging from $20 to $2,000 but not everything I ship is insured. I would list item as being shipped with a tracking number and insurance is optional at buyers cost, if buyer does not ask for insurance and you ship it out with a tracking number and it shows item was sent to the address but the buyer says they did not get it then its the buyers problem then. I know I get packages left on my door all the time and someone could easily walk by and take them, would not be the sellers problem if that happened.

 

[JB Cases]

IMO if you ship something without insurance or tracking then your asking for trouble eventually. I have shipped hundreds of items ranging from $20 to $2,000 but not everything I ship is insured. I would list item as being shipped with a tracking number and insurance is optional at buyers cost, if buyer does not ask for insurance and you ship it out with a tracking number and it shows item was sent to the address but the buyer says they did not get it then its the buyers problem then. I know I get packages left on my door all the time and someone could easily walk by and take them, would not be the sellers problem if that happened.

I hate to disagree with you Lenny.

What if you and I had a deal and you agreed to bring it to my house and give me the item? You come to my house but no one is home and you leave it on my porch. Some door to door salesman happens by right after you left and sees the package and takes it. I get home 15min later and no package.

Why I am I then responsible when you left it in an unsecured location?

Delivery companies allow their drivers to leave packages on the porch because they know that in the vast majority of times there will be no problem. But when there is then it's the shipping company that takes the hit because they did not put the package in a secure location. The shipping companies have already worked out the acceptable percentages of loss through disappearing packages vs. the extra cost of re-deliveries. That coupled with the fact that insurance on packages is actually a profitable part of their business in that they take in more on insurance fees than they pay out in claims it's just not important for them to make sure the package ends up in the receiver's hands every time.

Since the shipper is your agent, i.e. you hired them to deliver your product then it's on you to make sure that your agent does their job and gets the product into the buyer's hands.

If the buyer says to ship it on their account. They send you a label and tell you to put it on the box THEN it's on them as they have chosen an agent to pick up the package and deliver it to them. At the moment you hand the package to the agent your responsibility is done.

Now, none of this has anything to do with fraud where the shipper ships an empty box or the buyer claims the box was empty. At that point it's a civil/criminal matter.

But if you hire a shipping company to do you delivery then you are responsible for their performance.

IMO. And yes I should be doing your case instead of writing this

 

[Fast Lenny]

I hate to disagree with you Lenny.

What if you and I had a deal and you agreed to bring it to my house and give me the item? You come to my house but no one is home and you leave it on my porch. Some door to door salesman happens by right after you left and sees the package and takes it. I get home 15min later and no package.

Why I am I then responsible when you left it in an unsecured location?

Delivery companies allow their drivers to leave packages on the porch because they know that in the vast majority of times there will be no problem. But when there is then it's the shipping company that takes the hit because they did not put the package in a secure location. The shipping companies have already worked out the acceptable percentages of loss through disappearing packages vs. the extra cost of re-deliveries. That coupled with the fact that insurance on packages is actually a profitable part of their business in that they take in more on insurance fees than they pay out in claims it's just not important for them to make sure the package ends up in the receiver's hands every time.

Since the shipper is your agent, i.e. you hired them to deliver your product then it's on you to make sure that your agent does their job and gets the product into the buyer's hands.

If the buyer says to ship it on their account. They send you a label and tell you to put it on the box THEN it's on them as they have chosen an agent to pick up the package and deliver it to them. At the moment you hand the package to the agent your responsibility is done.

Now, none of this has anything to do with fraud where the shipper ships an empty box or the buyer claims the box was empty. At that point it's a civil/criminal matter.

But if you hire a shipping company to do you delivery then you are responsible for their performance.

IMO. And yes I should be doing your case instead of writing this

Haha, John cant wait to get my case, we can talk about shipping then too. :grin: I have not really had a problem with shipping items, they get there most of the time especially if they are insured or have a tracking number, if you insure it most likely they will ask someone to sign for it if its over $100.

I insure any item over $100 regardless but do not insure items like shirts and DVDs as they can be easily and cheaply replaced. I shipped a DVD to China, the shipping was expensive for a DVD but we had no way to track it or insure it through USPS because it was a cheap product and would have been expensive to track/insure and it did not get there right away so we refunded the money and then a month later we get a message it finally arrived.

I just do not think I could hold someone responsible for shipping me something if I do not ask for insurance and they did not offer it but it was shown that it was delivered to me via tracking number, I would be looking for a thief neighbor.

 

[skor]

No such problems with delivery guys over here, both post and fedex call before and schedule the drop. If I can't meet them I just ask to leave the package at their dispatch and I go to pick it up when I'm free.

 

[Fast Lenny]

No such problems with delivery guys over here, both post and fedex call before and schedule the drop. If I can't meet them I just ask to leave the package at their dispatch and I go to pick it up when I'm free.

That is a good idea and should be done but it busy areas I am not sure how well it would work.