Who is this masked man ?

hustlers

please dont get me wrong i dont beleive in walking into your rooms and being disrespectful to you or your room. i think players like that are POOL SCUM. you dont ever lie cheat or steal to get an edge.slow playing isnt any of the above. and i would never be involved with a player that would do any of that. and for all of you that know me you know thats the way it is.
 
I would have no problem if you walked into my pool hall and asked me to play for a nominal amount. I have the option then to agree or disagree. If I play you and I lose, then you offer weight, no problem.

I think that it's hard to hustle an honest man. If someone were to come up to me and I really thought they couldn't play, I wouldn't play them for money. I have an acquaintance who likes to drink and when he does he likes to gamble playing pool. He's asked me to play for money many times and I could have made hundreds off this guy but won't play him when he's drunk. Once when he was sober, I played him some cheap and beat him 7 games in a row and he's never asked me to play when drunk or sober since.



bignasty said:
so if i walk into your room and ask you to play then beat you and you quit then i offer you weight and beat you again is that a hustle or is that "lagit"
becouse if i dont have to show my true speed to win. and i give you weight till the game is evan then ive done my job by givving till its fair.correct?
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i watch shane play all the time

he's no hustler... he has about as much hustle as a square has roll.

he is however, a world beater... no bones.

and when you are that good, you go after the cash... grab it with both hands and make a run... if he was down there for a hit and run, his trip wouldn't be topping 1mo in the same area... by now everyone has seen him play, and they come back for more... its the same everywhere, big winners take big beats because they get superman complexes... thinking they havent been beat 100 sets straight, they must just be having an off roll...

then they pop off for everything they can scratch

i really dont think shane or mike care if people know who they are, i dont think they are hidding there intentions... they have cash, they want to put it on the table and take who's ever wants to put up to play. thats not hustle... thats mad game... and balls like bulls
 
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Rickw said:
Gambling is not the issue. The issue is cutting up you backer or representing something you're not. If you walk into a pool hall with your playing cue and you let people know that you play a good game and you want to match up, no problem in my book. However, if you walk in and let on that you don't know which end of the cue to play with just to sucker someone in, that's not okay in my book.
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Rick, cutting up your backer and using a little camouglage are two different things. I agree that cutting up your backer is a really nasty road to go down. That doesn't and never sat well with me either. But ever since the caveman touched down on earth and got hungry as hell and couldn't find a grocery or convenience store, he figured out that he had to go out and hunt for prey. We don't have to do that any more, but the hunting part and sport of it is still an instinct to a certain degree. Now, it's more sport and a game than anything. For many, it's just fun.

A hunter in the woods wears camouflage in order that the prey will come closer to him. Is that so bad? Should he be standing out there banging a drum and clashing cymbals to alert whatever it is that he's hunting? I don't think so.

I see the problem moreso on the "prey" than the hunter in camouflage within the pool room. Mainly because the "prey" thinks that HE is really the hunter and HE just happened to stumble on some weak prey, not recognizing or realizing that it's the other way around.

In your case, you said that you refuse to play someone for money that you deem a worse player than yourself. That may be considered admirable, but I don't think it's the norm. Even though guys that frequent a particular room don't go outside of it to seek out fresh prey, that doesn't make them any better than somebody coming in with bib overalls and a piece of hay in their mouth that sounds like his last year of school was the 6th grade. If those regular players think that they have a real numbnuts amongst them they can choose NOT to play so that he's not taken advantage of...or play and laugh about how they got this dumb ass farmer that came wandering in and hooked him for a fast $100. Most choose to go after the numbnuts, or what they think is the numbnuts, and they have it coming to them if they get nailed.

Hey...it's no worse than going to a casino in Vegas, Atlantic City, or some Indian Gaming Reservation. Each game is camouflaged to make you think you might have a chance of winning. It's our choice to play or not play. Based on casino receipts and profits, the prey thinks that they're really the hunter and they're going to bag the big one. New and used car dealers are deceiving everyone that walks through the door all across the world every minute of every day. So what....so goes the life of prey and hunter.
 
Let me set a few things straight!

POOL HUSTELING FACTS:
#1 - I no longer Hustle Pool or have to, Thank God!
#2 - The TRUE Art of Pool Hustling - "IS TOTALLY DEAD"
#3 - The last year that I hustled pool was a year that a TOP PRO had dominated ALL the Tourneys for three years running. We sat and had a good talk. His net income for the past 3 years was about $85K, after taxes & expenses. He almost lived "On The Road" for the entire 3 years & His personal life was suffering. He was totally "Burned Out" on pool in general.
#4 - In those exact same 3 years - I ACCUMULATED/SAVED $285K - After everything. I enjoyed the entire experience and only quit when I found the perfect woman to settle down with & start a family. I went from hustling pool on the road to playing Hi$ Gin Rummy (at a local health club). This was even more profitable then Pool because (In Gin - They Don't See The Train A Commin"! Gin suckers ALWAYS Think they were beaten by LUCK!
#5 - When I hustled pool - I NEVER went in acting like I didn't know which end of the cue to use. THAT'S STUPID! I simply was trying to convince players that I played about the 7 or last three under the way I could really play.
#6 - I NEVER went after someone that I didn't have information on. Before I went in- I knew the Where, When and figured out the How. This wasn't always by a local but sometimes by another hustler who screwed up a previous hustle and told me what he should have done & I did it. A lot of times - I made the Mark come to me because he played too good on his own table (we called these players a Home Grown Sucker).
#7 - Someone mentioned in a previous posting that all this was dishonest. Well, I'll tell you'all something – In my entire Pool Hustling carrier,
“I NEVER HUSTLED AN HONEST MAN”!

TY & GL
 
Drivermaker,

That was a very well thought out post. Well Done! I disagree on a point or two but your argument is persuasive. However, no one likes to feel cheated.

For thirteen years, I did business with my local Acura dealer. I went in. Sat down. Chose the options I wanted. Paid the price requested. Got my free mats and splash guards. I was happy. Did I save money? I never checked. Each vehicle I bought went way over 100k miles. I felt I got my moneys worth. For most people, buying a car is the second most stressful purchase. They research, they argue, they lie, the dealer lies. In the end, most people still feel they left money on the table (got cheated). It appears to be part of the American way.

Misrepresenting yourself to another pool player is no different. As you mentioned, most of the players that were suckered in, thought they had the easy pickings. Its called greed. For the players that think they have an easy mark only to find they have been taken, I have no sympathy!
 
OldHasBeen said:
Someone mentioned in a previous posting that all this was dishonest. Well, I'll tell you'all something – In my entire Pool Hustling carrier, “I NEVER HUSTLED AN HONEST MAN”!
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OHB,

Like people who really believe they can beat Vegas over the long run, most players and backers who lose to roadies are just plain greedy. There is a sucker born every day! ;)
 
I understand how the game is played and I am just one that does not prefer to play that way and that's probably why I don't gamble. I never ask someone to play for money. If someone approaches me and wants to play for a token amount, fine, I can do that. I work hard for my money and don't want to give it away. I also do not want to take someone else's hard-earned money, and I don't need it because I make enough to live comfortably. Maybe if I was down and out and needed to, I might try it, who knows?

Two guys walk into a pool room, Player A goes up to the counter and says, "I play a pretty good game of pool and I'd like to challenge your best player for some money." Player B walks in, goes to the counter and sits there nursing a cup of coffee and clocks everyone in the room. He spots someone he knows he can beat and then talks the guy into a money game feeling pretty confident that he's going to win some cash. Which guy would you rather be? I would rather be Player A not Player B. That's just me though, that's just my way of thinking and I'm not trying to impose it on you I'm just trying to say that if the first scenario was the norm, I think pool would be elevated a notch or two.
 
Obviously Player B would be the norm. Hardley anyone wants to go into an unknown place, and donate their money just to get a strong game. Of course you are going to do some scouting to make a decision whether you want to play or not.

I am a believer that GREED is the factor in all this. If someone is willing to play an unknown stranger who comes up and asks you to play for money, then they are responsible for putting themself in action. Last time I checked, noone is forced to gamble.

If someone approaches another player and asks for a money game and does not know them at all, a smart man should understand that he probably is not as good a player as the person asking before they play. Good players can outrun this advantage sometimes, but its greed that brings the game.

Not every player looking for a game is a hustler, but you can bet that if they are asking to play for money that they can play, and in this world, they can play BETTER than they claim. Hence the common line heard amongst friends or random players: "Oh, I havent been playing at all!"
 
Rickw said:
Two guys walk into a pool room, Player A goes up to the counter and says, "I play a pretty good game of pool and I'd like to challenge your best player for some money." Player B walks in, goes to the counter and sits there nursing a cup of coffee and clocks everyone in the room. He spots someone he knows he can beat and then talks the guy into a money game feeling pretty confident that he's going to win some cash. Which guy would you rather be? I would rather be Player A not Player B. That's just me though, that's just my way of thinking and I'm not trying to impose it on you I'm just trying to say that if the first scenario was the norm, I think pool would be elevated a notch or two.
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And I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference. They're just two different ways of drumming up business. It still always boils down to the individual who was approached...not the one that did the approaching. You said "He spots someone he knows he can beat and then TALKS the guy into a money game".

You can't talk anyone into something that they didn't want to be talked into to begin with!!

If you feel that strongly about it, you should start a national campaign or lobby against every law enforcement agency in the country. They use those SAME acts of subterfuge to entrap individuals every single day. Is it immoral for a pool player to do that, yet totally moral, honest, and legal for law enforcement to do even worse?

Case in point: A guy approaches me dressed either in a suit and tie, or plain golf clothes and says he has a couple of deals for me to make money. I can either buy some drugs from him dirt cheap for my personal use, or sell it and make a hell of a profit based on the going rate. Or, if I can score some drugs at a reasonable price, he'll buy everything that I can muster up. And let's say he's REALLY persuasive in trying to "talk" me into it. Let me tell you what's going to happen, I don't care what he has to say and offer, I'm going to tell him to hit the road and go f*#k himself! Yet, that same DEA agent or narc can go right around the corner and ask someone else and get a hit. Whose fault is it...the agent or the mark?

Case #2: A guy works about 3/4 of a mile from his home in the city. Rather than pay parking fees he walks back and forth to work but has to go through about a block and a half of regular street hookers soliciting business. Mixed in with them are some absolutely knock out chicks with 5 miles of leg, beautiful faces, perfect bodies, and short skirts just covering their ass cheeks that happen to be undercover police women. If he loves his wife, his kids, and the life that he has going for him, it might be a hell of a temptation and a fantasy but he WON'T be TALKED INTO IT come hell or high water. Who will? The guy that WANTS to get some action. If he gets the cuffs slapped on him, who is the immoral one...he or the cops? According to the legal system...he.

In you example I don't think Player A or Player B should be condemned or condoned. They're just doing it one way or another, it still boils down to the person accepting, rejecting, or totally ignoring all of it.

Now, I agree that senior citizens being taken advantage of by telemarketing swindlers are a different story. They may have lost some mental acuity and are vulnerable and those making the calls should be nailed to the wall. But if a person is hanging out in a pool room, I don't think that applies. We're not talking about a senior geriatric club for the infirm.
 
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Gambleing Facts -

TRUELY HONEST PEOPLE DON'T GAMBLE!
TRUELY HONEST PEOPLE ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN!

MOST GOOD HUSTLERS ARE GENERIOUS TO A FAULT - TO OTHER HUSTLERS!

"I Have Never Hustled a Honest Man" Because IF he didn't have some degree of LARCENY he wouldn't even be interested in playing me. Or me him.

My Brother is a Principal of a large Investment Brokerage Firm.
He is very Successful, Wealthy, and Trusted & Respected in his business world.

HE IS ALSO VERY "HONEST"!

Do you know what he says about Gambling? - "I don't have the desire or time to gamble, even if I could win every bet every time".

TY & GL
 
OHB,

I'm just waiting on your book to come out. I bet it would be great!!! (Just don't quote Fats too much ;) )

Back on the subject...

I see more of two strong players "gambling" than someone trying to hustle. If I go to a room for gambling, I'm looking for the cash. If I want to play someone stronger than me, I'll enter a large tournament. Pool, like golf or any other sport for that matter, has it's different types of players. Golf has it's tournament players like Tiger and its gamblers like Chi Chi. To each his own I guess.

Jim
 
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