\BPG24 said:
Mine too...and, the case was delivered promptly as per our phone conversations. Jack even called me...making another suggestion.
No surprises, no delays, and excellent craftsmanship.
http://www.justiscases.net/
Who make the finest pool cue case
- Thread starter TooManyCues
- Start date
Mine too...and, the case was delivered promptly as per our phone conversations. Jack even called me...making another suggestion.
No surprises, no delays, and excellent craftsmanship.
http://www.justiscases.net/
Poolplaya9 said:
I totally respect your opinion but I have to disagree.
While Jim certainly has a nice assortment of designs he has not yet explored every avenue of cue case making.
I think latitude of creativity and best assortment of design goes to the case maker who shows the most ability and willingness to make any style of case, from the inside out.
I would like to think that I come close with the body of work we have put out in the last year. And if you include Jiasen Cue Cases (with whom I work very closely) in the mix I think that you would agree that this is a LOT of variation on design coupled with fanatical protection.
JB Cases - www.jbcases.com/forsale.html
Jiasen Cue Cases - http://www.jbcases.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2602
I respect Jim and his work tremendously. I feel that he brought cue case making back to life in a way by being a breath of fresh air in the genre. I understand that he has fans who are fanatical. And he has created some true masterpieces. So don't get me wrong when I respectfully disagree that no one else comes close because as good as Jim is, in fact, several others do.
JB Cases said:
me thinks you have automatically excluded yourself from the list by this post.
If you truly did have the best cases (and I know nothing about your cases, so they very well could be the best cases on the planet), then I would think you'd let your cases and your customers speak for themselves in this thread rather than tooting your own horn.
Da Bank said:
You are pretty much right. Notice though that I did not say that we have the best cases.
The point I addressed wasn't which case is the best. I addressed the point of who has more breadth of variety. Someone said that no one is close to Jim - in all capital letters. I disagreed, in small letters with a link to the stuff we do.
I am proud of what we do and I don't need to depend on my customers to "speak up for me". I have plenty of experience standing up for myself.
I also don't think that we make the "best" cases on Earth. "Best" is incredibly subjective depending on a lot of factors. I think I put everything I have learned in 17 years of doing this into each case we make and try my best to protect the cue from all sorts of damage.
For toughness and durability in a leather cue case Chas Clements builds the absolute best I have ever seen.
Whitten, for example, in my opinion, is the ABSOLUTE BEST at what they do. They make simply elegant cases that are pretty much perfect in execution. The Jaguar of cases is how I would describe them. They do one thing and do it to perfection. However they do not deviate much from their established pattern so either you want it the way they build it or you don't get a Whitten.
Jack Justis is the best in the world at the Jay Flowers/Swift style cases. He has developed his own look in that genre that is clean and classy.
Ooops, I suppose I should say that Swift is the best in the world at the "Swift" style cases
His are traditional and built like tanks.Jim Murnak is one of the case makers who, like me, will try just about any style. That is why I praise his work and often go to his website to see the new things he is doing. In addition to borrowing elements from other case makers he developed his own unique pockets that brought cue case making to a new level. I am still not brave enough to try to make his style of pocket because he makes holsters for guns and arrows as well
Garth Bair at ON Q Cases is probably the BEST in the world at matching a case to a cue. Although Whitten is right up there - and they probably switch spots on a case by case basis. Jim did a very very very sporty matching case to a Gina Cue that showed off his depth as well.
Anyway, the point is that there is no BEST case maker. All of us do things differently, some better, some worse. It's all opinion with the exception of certain facts like protectiveness and breadth of work. If you want to say that so and so's case is "more protective" then you need to prove HOW it is more protective. It's not enough to just think it is. And if you want to say that so and so has the most choice then that should be a true statement because it automatically denigrates all others in that criteria.
Best to you.
John
You do realize that you resurrected a 9 month old thread to toot your own horn, right? :grin:JB Cases said:
I still stand by my statement. For "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design," NOBODY ELSE EVEN COMES CLOSE to Jim Murnak. With all due respect John, those two categories have in fact actually been your biggest weaknesses over the years. Every case you make looks like an Instroke with different decoration. It's like painting a Toyota Camry a different color and saying it's a new model. Even if you airbrush a fancy mural on the hood, it's still a Toyota Camry.
When you announced the formation of JB Cases, and that you were going to be very innovative and do new and totally different things, I had high hopes. In fact I was wanting to purchase one from you if I liked the designs and it was true, but alas, I was let down. The "new, totally different, innovative" JB Cases ended up being Instroke copies with different decoration and very very slight modifications.
Don't get me wrong, you were very innovative and pioneered new things eons ago when you came up with the great Instroke style, you just never really did anything new or different since then. Although I do give you credit that finally, just in the last couple of months, you have done a couple of new things. Of course they weren't completely new ideas, just borrowed from others, like the Justis lid style, the Fellini knock offs etc, but still good to see you doing something different for a change.
Murnak came out of the gate with truly new and unique ideas and designs, and lots of them too, and he is still keeping them coming. If you want to do something truly different John, I would say to try the idea you were recently involved in the discussion of, which was a case with a removable interior that is easily cleanable/replaceable. Whatever you do though, please, please, please don't make it look like another Instroke too, and preferably not a copy of someone else's design either. You better hurry though before Murnak innovates this first too...
None of this is in any way a knock on the general quality and protection that your cases have offered, as they are among the best. I am not "fanatical" about Murnaks, I just tell it like it is, and in fact I really like Instroke cases and own several of them. I think they are at the very top in terms of protection and the overall design is pretty good. I would have to assume that your JB Cases are as good, if not better, in regards to the protection. I would have even given you the edge in protection, because I much prefer the padded tubes, but I have never seen any actual evidence whatsoever that any problems can be caused by a cue rattling slightly in a lined tube (it still bugs me a bit though).
TooManyCues said:
I am a CASE NUT, and have owned many, and will reply on LEATHER ONLY.
Jack Justis, Dan Whitten, Dennis Swift, Ron Thomas, and Brian Bonner aka Rangercap (Nittany Leather). Have only all.
John Barton HANDS DOWN, as if you can DREAM it John can Create it.
Brain Bonner, Jack Justis and Dennis Swift
All are Tube Cases. Dan Whitten, Dennis Swift, and Brian Bonner aka Rangercap (Nittany Leather)
John Barton
Dennis Swift
I own a bunch of Cases, and Each one has it +'s, and -'s.:wink:
Last edited:
What is "have only all" supposed to mean?CocoboloCowboy said:
Poolplaya9 said:
Well I said that I was going to start with the design that I ended with. And I did to get "back on the horse" so to speak. As you mentioned though we have been very innovative with some of the full custom cases that people have ordered. As for people ordering the Instroke style - I can't help that - it's what they want. But I think you can easily see where I have been making modifications to that style.
You say Jim came out of the gate with innovation but that's not entirely true. Look closely at the patterns, pockets, handles, lids and so on and you will see that Jim borrowed liberally from those that came before him.
As he should as well, because, to use your car analogy, all cars have wheels and so if you are designing a car you need them.
But since you bring up innovation here it is, I have invented a better interior. Seriously, I have invented a more protective form of padded interior and solved the cue parts height problem as well. Not only that but I have substantially improved the "Instroke" style tube interior.
I will be more than happy to demonstrate how to break a cue in a non-padded case. I have done it dozens of times over the years. Consider yourself lucky that you never dropped a case and had a cue develop a "buzz" at the A-Joint because it sustained a hairline fracture from the clatter when teh case hit the floor and the cue bounced off the walls of the tube. Most people wouldn't even connect the reason why the cue developed the buzz.
If you will recall I showed off the Jiasen cases as well, which were over a year in the making. Please show me anyone else doing carving like that on cases. I have only seen very few examples.
But I apologize if I stepped on your toes. In light of when you made the comment I can agree that at that time Jim was in fact the case maker who had the most diverse offerings. Now however I hope you will agree that this statement doesn't stand.
As for the case that opens at both ends - well I did that a year and a half ago. Anyone who wants one can order any case from me and request that it open at both ends and I will happily make it for them.
In fact - I could show you pictures of prototypes I invented - yes invented - of cases where the "skin" is removable and the everything is interchangeable. I debuted a version of it at Valley Forge this year and while it's not completely ready for market it's definitely been done.
Best to you.
Beep Beep!
Cuemaster Cases in Taiwan.They all done by hand and the creativie is top notch.JB and GTF and Cuemaster are the BEST from Asia for low Dollars.
Ralf
Ralf
I have owned my fair share of cases and a lot of really good ones, but my favorite is my Murnak case.
TooManyCues said:
I'd like to see everyone who owns cases state which case they have and give it a 1-10 rating with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best.
I think that this would go a lot farther to help people when deciding on a case.
I will start with two case I owned before I started making cases.
Mcdermott Soft Case - 1987ish.
User friendly. 8 - pocket too small.
Quality workmanship. 10 - case was well made
Sturdiness of the case. - 5 - was a soft case but well padded.
Protection for cues. - 6 for a soft case it was nicely padded.
Joe Porper - vintage 1989 bought it new.
User friendly. - 10
Quality workmanship. - 9 only because of the foam top
Latitude of creativity. - 10 at the time super innovative.
Sturdiness of the case. - 8 felt indestructable (now I know better)
Protection for cues. - 8 - cues didn't move which was good - cues got stuck which was not good.
Jay Flowers - 1990ish
User friendly. - 7 - had to tip case to get cues out.
Quality workmanship. - 7 - the case was a little flimsy feeling.
Latitude of creativity. - 9 - at the time there were very few of this style around.
Sturdiness of the case. - 6 - you could make the tubes move around.
Protection for cues. - 6 - my cue fell out of the case and was broken - which led to the creation of Instroke Cases.
Oh what the hell I am on a roll - Instroke 1994-2000
User friendly. 10
Quality workmanship. 7 - latch issues, handles and straps not properly reinforced.
Latitude of creativity. 7 - the designs were new at the time (cowboy style) but they never changed as poolplaya pointed out.
Sturdiness of the case. 8 - when the latches or handles didn't break the case was rock solid.
Protection for cues. 10 - even after 10 years of use most Instroke interiors are still protecting the cues as well as they did on day 1. What that means is that liners and padding has not worn out.
JB Cases
Not going there - ask someone who has one.
No toes stepped on here. I have no vested interest in any case manufacturer. This site is here in good part for the free exchange of ideas and opinions, I just had to bust your chops a bit for resurrecting a 9 month old thread. :wink:JB Cases said:Well I said that I was going to start with the design that I ended with. And I did to get "back on the horse" so to speak. As you mentioned though we have been very innovative with some of the full custom cases that people have ordered. As for people ordering the Instroke style - I can't help that - it's what they want. But I think you can easily see where I have been making modifications to that style.
You say Jim came out of the gate with innovation but that's not entirely true. Look closely at the patterns, pockets, handles, lids and so on and you will see that Jim borrowed liberally from those that came before him.
As he should as well, because, to use your car analogy, all cars have wheels and so if you are designing a car you need them.
But since you bring up innovation here it is, I have invented a better interior. Seriously, I have invented a more protective form of padded interior and solved the cue parts height problem as well. Not only that but I have substantially improved the "Instroke" style tube interior.
I will be more than happy to demonstrate how to break a cue in a non-padded case. I have done it dozens of times over the years. Consider yourself lucky that you never dropped a case and had a cue develop a "buzz" at the A-Joint because it sustained a hairline fracture from the clatter when teh case hit the floor and the cue bounced off the walls of the tube. Most people wouldn't even connect the reason why the cue developed the buzz.
If you will recall I showed off the Jiasen cases as well, which were over a year in the making. Please show me anyone else doing carving like that on cases. I have only seen very few examples.
But I apologize if I stepped on your toes. In light of when you made the comment I can agree that at that time Jim was in fact the case maker who had the most diverse offerings. Now however I hope you will agree that this statement doesn't stand.
As for the case that opens at both ends - well I did that a year and a half ago. Anyone who wants one can order any case from me and request that it open at both ends and I will happily make it for them.
In fact - I could show you pictures of prototypes I invented - yes invented - of cases where the "skin" is removable and the everything is interchangeable. I debuted a version of it at Valley Forge this year and while it's not completely ready for market it's definitely been done.
Best to you.
Beep Beep!
After reconsidering I will give the Instroke style cases the slight edge in protection, but the instances where it would be superior are so rare that they are still more or less equal. The basic design and look to your cases never changed much over the years (even problems like the bottom that crumples or can fall out, or the lid latch that took way too many years to correct).
We were talking about "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design," and until the last couple of months you only offered one basic case style for several decades. Hardly assorted or creative after the initial offering. Your better position is in arguing that you offer the best protection by a hair, because you still aren't even close in assorted designs or creativity. Different tooling does not equate to variation in design, and it's hard to argue for creativity when basic designs never change.
Although Murnak has borrowed some things, he is at least willing to incorporate better designs ideas regardless of where they come from to make for a better case (if he pad's those tubes it will be difficult for anyone to ever surpass him). He has also done many new things that nobody had ever done before him, and is still coming up with new ideas. He has also been willing to offer a wide assortment of case styles that are of different designs, and with very different looks. Instroke style cases are near the top, but when strictly talking "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design," everyone else including Instroke and JB Cases has a ton of catching up to do to be anywhere close to Murnak.
Poolplaya9 said:
By a hair? You think that the difference in protection is that slight?
I am not gonna go into detail but it's far more protection than that.
Jim offers pretty much anything. So do I. I have not confined anyone to any particular style.
I offer everything and anything someone can dream of so what does that mean to you? Of the 30 cases now on display 15 or so are customer orders meaning they ordered what they wanted not what I told them to get. A year ago I made a case for Shorty. He wanted a lightweight case in the envelope style with a long pocket. Here it is, Shorty's Flycase - a case NO ONE ever made before as far as I know. It took me three versions to get it right. He loves it.
Look closely at the case for Bob Olson. You will see that the lines of tooling which are hand stamped, not rolled in a press, follow the lines of the pockets, or vice-versa. The pockets themselves are different heights. The lid is custom designed. You have no idea what went into it to make this case. And of course the interior is my new invention which is WAAAAYYY more protective than just about any similar style case out there.
Doc's Oni's - custom art, custom pockets, custom lid, custom handle and strap parts.
The Rolls Royce - this one is something no other case maker has ever done as far as I can tell. Look closely at how the case is made. The circle is closed in the front and the pockets are hand sewn on. This was done last year. As a result it is much requested.
You can also knock the Cowboy style if you want to but there is a reason people WANT it - it's a good design. This is easily the top selling leather case in the world and has been knocked off in more variations than any other. It's also difficult to do if you don't want to invest in a clicker die press and dies or a laser cutter. If you want to do it by hand then you need to have a very good 1/2 inch punch. We have all three, clicker die, laser, and some custom made, razor sharp punches.
You also made mention previously about me doing stuff that copies older styles. I did take on Fellini and Centennial and Jay Flowers style cases. The reason is because I respect those styles and want to prove that I can do them and prove that I can improve them. It's my goal to master all styles of case making, from the inside out. To me doing that proves that we offer a greater latitude of styles.
Jim's stuff has his unique look. That belongs to him and will always be his. The Cowboy style will always be mine. The Fellini style will always be Bob Hempel's. The classy lines will always be Jack Justis's. It would be easy for me to copy Jim's look and the technical build of the cases is no challenge. If someone were to ask me to copy a case of his then I would refuse. If they were to ask me to design a pocket with the same functionality that some of Jim's has then I would as I expect him to be willing to take whatever functionality is good on our cases and provide it to his customers.
I get your points and Jim does great work and does have stuff that definitely shows off his own style. As a I said before Jim was a breath of fresh air in the industry. In fact I give him credit for inspiring me to get back into it. I just don't think that your comment that Jim is far above everyone else is completely accurate. But I understand that it's your opinion and you expressed it and defined your reasoning for holding it.
Mine is different and since this is a forum for discussion I felt it appropriate to discuss our differences of opinion. Because you see in my view, when you make such a statement without rebuttal then you can influence the people who are inexperienced. By disagreeing with you and providing links I give those people choice and allow them to make up their own minds based on presentation of goods. Even though the thread was 9 months old it was still new to me and new to anyone else who reads it for the first time.
I do the same thing on my website, www.jbcases.com where if you scroll down on the home page you will find a link to Jim Murnak's website and a nice recommendation.
Thomas cases are great.---Smitty
Yes. The difference in protection would only be apparent in extreme and very rare circumstances, so it offers little advantage when you consider how often it comes up. I've already said that I prefer the padded tubes though.JB Cases said:
This one doesn't look like an Instroke for a change. Nice case, new and unique in design with a different look. I like it.JB Cases said:
Looks like an Instroke with slight variations and some unique decoration.JB Cases said:
Looks like an Instroke with slight variations and some unique decoration.JB Cases said:
Looks like an Instroke with slight variations and some unique decoration.JB Cases said:
I never knocked it. It's a great overall design (although it had some flaws that mysteriously took forever to fix and some that were never fixed). I carry one myself often, and often recommend them to others as well. At or near the top in protection and functionality.JB Cases said:
I'm not knocking you for copying anyone else. We were debating "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design," and I'm just saying you can't really claim creativity with copies of other people's work, that's all. It doesn't mean that they aren't great cases though.JB Cases said:
His stuff has quite a few different unique looks, which is a big difference, and is what we were discussing. Until the last few months, you only had one look. Now that you are branching out with truly new designs in the last few months, you may IMO soon be up there in "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design."JB Cases said:
I was never attacking you or your cases in any way. I think they are great, and overall are among the best. I own several, and would own another. We were only discussing one part of cases, which was the "latitude of creativity" and "best assortment of variation of design," and as of the last few months you have been expanding in that regard. I wish you continued success.
I've got a Justis 3x6 that I like a lot but wish I had gotten the 2x4. I used to carry an Instroke Buffalo 2x4 that I passed down to my wife. I really liked that case too. I had a Whitten 1x2 many years ago, left it in my car one summer afternoon, and when I returned the tubes inside the case had actually softened and bent out of shape. I had to cut my cues out of that case. I'm not in the habit of leaving my cues in the car but there are times when it's unavoidable and a case that melts on you is not such a good thing.
MULLY
MULLY
tikkler said:
Tap Tap Tap No reason to explain and nobody has to have a reason to like what they like.
As for me... I can't make my mind up. :groucho: I pretty much love'm all, or at least lots of them.
I'd love to have JB design a case for me. I'd love to buy a Nittany and a Thomas. I have most of the others that I like and some customs as well.
:thumbup: :groucho: