who makes the best sneaky pete?

[pooldawg8]

Craig
Here`s Tim Scruggs tel# 410-247-1231
Maybe calling him yourself will clear things up
for ya. Hope this helps
Jeff

 

[gesan]

I heard Tim Scruggs choked an alligator with his bare hands while vacationing in Mexico.

Joey it was not an alligator but a chicken and rumor has it that tim is too sneaky to choke his own chicken - It has also been said that tim has never been to mexico but bob frey has

 

[cubswin]

I like Mason Houghlands (doubt he'll make you or anyone one though), Joey Bautista (again, don't think he's making sneaky's anymore), Bob Dzuricky, Frey, Tim Scruggs, little Al Romero, and currently playing with a joss sneaky that doesn't cost much and plays good.

New ones I'd go with www.dzcues.com, little Al, or Bob Frey

 

[snowmon34]

Here are some fine examples...If you get an opportunity to pick one of these up you will be satisfied imo..

top to bottom: Scruggs, Masonh (2), Sugartree (3), Bluegrass

 

[JB Cases]

John believe what you want, I would not want to change your mind or opinion. But, what you have outlined above is exactly what allows certain individuals stand head and shoulders above others who are equally talented. Maybe some day the clouds will clear and you will see things differently maybe not, I do not really care either way, that is something for you to figure out.

Well you do care obviously or we wouldn't be debating this topic and you wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. What allows anyone to stand head and shoulders above others is a combination of three things, the product that they make, the reputation they earn, and their ability to deliver.

They don't necessarily have to be the best in class at all of these aspects but certainly in at least one of them.

The thing is that this isn't like a race where the person who finishes first more often is the best. It's more like a beauty contest with performance being a secondary criteria. So if you go to a knife forum for example and ask the question who is the best knife maker then you will get a bunch of answers that range from the guy who make the most exotic and beautiful to the guy who is cranking out performance oriented survival knives and each person will vote SUBJECTIVELY with their own "eye of the beholder" reasoning.

So your point is VALID, for you and whichever other people hold it, BUT if the MAJORITY of people held your view then luxury goods, of which high end cues and cases are a part of, would all be made in one man shops.

Now I agree with you that there is a special prestige attached to the thing that does in fact come from a one man shop. If two things are otherwise completely equal in beauty, build and performance then I would say that the one made by one single person should be more "collectible" than the one made by multiple people. But again neither product is "better" than the other JUST because one is made by only one person and the other is made by a team of people.

John, I am originally from Missouri and I have known Paul Heubler for more than 30 years. John the cues that I posted on this forum were made by Paul, as were all the cues made in his Custom Shop. You see John, Paul believed like I do and that is why he had his Custom Shop and His production shop. All cue come from Paul's Custom Shop where engraved under the Bumper in the edge of the Butt Cap. So, I am sorry John but that was not a good Analogy to use for this subject.

So you want to go on record on this forum and say that Paul Huebler made the custom Huebler cues all by himself with zero help from anyone else in his shop. From raw wood to finished product no other person did anything along the way? I just want to clarify that this is what you are saying.


I think it's clear that James White made all or significant parts of Mottey cues. Has ANYONE ever returned a Mottey cue because James White made it?

Another Bad analogy John, recently there was one of the larger collectors here on the forum who was speaking about the above subject. He said he had ordered a cue and worked out a Design with Paul and spent his $3500. Later he found out the cue was made James White, he called Paul told him what he thought and sold the cue, to date he has never bought another Mottey Cue. However, he also said that now, many years later he kinda wished he had never done that, because today he really likes Mr. Whites work.

Again, this is one example and the reason it's a good example is because if that collector had never known that James White made the cue instead of Paul Mottey then he would have been happy with his Mottey for all of his life. Which again brings up the question of what is more important, the man or the process?

If James White learns the craft in Paul Mottey's shop and ends up doing pretty much all the work on Mottey cues then the cues are STILL Mottey cues because James White is doing them just as Paul taught him (disclaimer I am just using them as an example I have zero firsthand knowledge of the James White/Paul Mottey story).

Thanks for your opinion John, I can certainly respect the honesty of it, even if I don't agree with the principle of it.

My pleasure, it's always fun to debate these topics. I just think that we need to focus more on the results rather than the means. You and I both know that there are plenty of one-man-shops out there that put out less than acceptable work a lot of time and plenty of shops with a few employees that put out great work most of the time. This subject is never-ending and divisive and personal. For me the main thing is that I don't focus on making things that are aimed at collectors. I make things that are useful today and mean to be enjoyed for their performance first and their artistry second. As such I don't care too much about those who collect based on obtaining a list of who did what on the product. My name is on it and I am the one who answers to the customer when it's not good and the one who gets the accolades when it is.

Someday when some of my people go off on their own, which they eventually will as the nature of people is to be independent, then they will operate under their own name and I will still be responsible to make cases that befit my standards regardless of who is here and who isn't. One thing is certain, no single person comes into my shop knowing more about making cue cases than I do. When they leave they "might" know as much as I do but it's doubtful. So for that reason every case that leaves my shop is "made by John Barton" even if John Barton didn't touch a single tool in the actual construction of the case.

John Barton - Case Maker

 

[JDB]

It's his wood, his shop, his specifications, and his name on the cue...

I submit that the reason Scruggs sneaky petes have the reputation they do is primarily through Tim Scruggs' direction as to how they should be made regardless of whether he actually turned the wood on any of them.

I agree as I stated something along these lines previously in this thread. One step further that I stated is that once the apprentice leaves the shop, there is no guarantee that he will keep the same specifications, which could materially alter the cue.

 

[poolplayer2093]

which model did you see and how did it play compared to others?

it played like a fury with a predator z shaft on it. i can't find the model i saw. i think they discontinued the model.

the mezz feels more solid imo.

 

[Tbeaux]

Sixty Six posts. CANNOT believe it! The obvious answer to the title of the thread is "If I told ya it wouldn't be very Sneaky would it?":grin:

Real answer is there are some great cuemakers who post in the cuemakers section. Any number of them can make a great sneaky. Browse through the sneaky posts and pm a few whos work strikes your fancy.

Terry

 

[poolplayer2093]

Mezz builds great cues. They also design Fury cues. It's funny what relationships exist in the world. I have had folks tell me that they love one brand of cue and hate another brand and I know that both brands are made on the same line to EXACTLY the same specifications.

We usually sell out of Sneakys at shows and the just completed Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge was no exception. We sold out of all Fury Sneaky Petes in a hurry.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw them in the mix and I hoped no one would even jokingly bring up the whole imported vs. domestic thing. They are good cues at good prices. Are they the "best" sneaky petes? I think so for their price class.

are you saying they're built in the same factory? i'd believe they might have designed but i don't believe they're made in the same factory. the quality in the 2 seem too different

 

[JB Cases]

are you saying they're built in the same factory? i'd believe they might have designed but i don't believe they're made in the same factory. the quality in the 2 seem too different

No and I am sorry that it might have come across that way. Mezz cues are made in their own shop in Japan. They are however one of the founders of Fury cues - you can read the history here - http://www.fury-cues.com/story.asp

 

[dakota]

Favorite?

Here are some fine examples...If you get an opportunity to pick one of these up you will be satisfied imo..

top to bottom: Scruggs, Masonh (2), Sugartree (3), Bluegrass

snowmon34,

You have a collection of some of the best sneakies on the planet.
Which one of these sneakies is your personal favorite in terms of playability and why? I've owned a sugartree and I have a masonh on order and TS is always on the wishlist. Which one is your favorite and tell me how you would compare them?

 

[CGiuli]

Any love

I've seen a few cues by Espirtu at Vf. He had 4-5 sneakys there. I thought all of his cues were very nice with good craftsmanship. I ended up buying 6. I didn't get any sneakys though. I wish i didin hindsight.

 

[LC3]

New ones I'd go with www.dzcues.com, little Al, or Bob Frey

I second the recommendation for DZ. I had two, and they both looked and hit great. I sold them only because I upgraded to other DZs. Speaking of it, I should write Bob for another.