Who uses the 90/90 aiming system?

M

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been learning the 90/90 aiming system that Ron Vitello teaches. Spidey has put out alot of good info about this and I would like to hear other objective opinions and ideas from other users. I ask that you keep your responses about the system and not start a flame war because this is another pivot based aiming thread.

If you don't use the system feel free to post and learn. Just keep your message on subject.
 
Mikjary said:
I have been learning the 90/90 aiming system that Ron Vitello teaches. Spidey has put out alot of good info about this and I would like to hear other objective opinions and ideas from other users. I ask that you keep your responses about the system and not start a flame war because this is another pivot based aiming thread.

If you don't use the system feel free to post and learn. Just keep your message on subject.
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In diagraming and trying 90/90 I did find a relationship that you may have already found as well.

That is that the bridge should be behind the CB 1/2 the distance between the CB and the OB.

As I understand it, one finds the point where a line from the center of the pocket enters the OB. Then one notes the distance from the edge at the equator of OB to this point. Using the same distance at the CB and on the same side to aim the cue to start.

Then one pivots the tip of the cue to the center of the CB and shoots.

Just saying and sharing.:)
 
Dave Nelson said:
I have tried it and it does not work for me so I assume I'm not doing it right.

Dave Nelson
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Dave,

I've been shooting since the 70's and learned the traditional ways of aiming and stroking like many others here on AZ. I was almost PO'ed when I heard about some of the new (or old :)) aiming systems out there that take the place of what I'd worked so hard at for so many years. Being skeptical I decided it was my duty to prove them wrong even though I had worked with guys like Gerry Kanov and Don "The Preacher" Feeney in the past and we had discussed these lunatic fringe aiming systems and their geometric possibilities. I learned the 90/90 system and much to my dismay I starting pocketing balls. :mad: Now what do I do? I'm trapped between tradition and a leap of faith. You have to make your mind up to let 90/90 work for you. Do not second guess the setup is what this paragraph is saying even though it feels wrong. Once you get past that here is a good starting place...

The nice thing about the 90/90 system is you can adjust for angle and distance without changing your bridge distance. If you change the length of the bridge your hip pivot changes. The bridge distance has to be consistent. Only on shots where the CB is very close to the OB will I shorten my bridge to feel the correct pivot.

I learned to vary my bridges for speed and accuracy on each type of shot as we all do as we advance in ability. In 90/90 you can still do this, but first get your aiming line and then adjust your english and stroke length. It's an extra step that I do because I can really concentrate on my pose since I've cinched the ball.

The easiest place to start is with shots more than 2 diamonds apart. These will be consistent when used with an edge to edge (ETE) or what is called by Ron V a '90/90' setup. This setup is for a shot less than thirty degrees (slight or thick cuts). For a shot to the left you aim left side of the CB to the left side of the OB and hip pivot. If you have a shot to the right esrever the snoitcerid. :wink:

If you aren't pocketing balls you may be too close to the CB before your pivot. I use a 12" bridge on all shots. When the ball is on the rail it gets a little tricky, but don't change your bridge length. Remember...the 90/90 setup is for shots more the 2 diamonds apart. If you are less than 2 diamonds away or the cut is more than 30 degrees a simple adjustment or aiming point is made. I would start with the 90/90 setup and then move to the adjustments after my bridge and hip pivot were comfortable.

Hope I turned on a light for you to papraphrase Spidey.

Best, Mike
 
Mike
Since you have taken the trouble to give me such a lengthy and detailed reply I will reread what I can find on this procedure and give it a better try.

Dave Nelson
 
tell me what it is, and I'll tell you if I use it. ;):) And I'll give my opinion of it anyway.:)
 
CTE and 90/90 are the same geometric system. So if you're making balls with one and not the other, you're doing one of the systems incorrectly.

Instead of aligning your body to the outermost edge in CTE, 90/90 makes OB alignment adjustments (90/90, 90/half, 90/reverse-90). It's the same thing, however. When you're excellent at each system, you can do one system and then double-check with the other and they're exactly the same.

As with CTE, 90-90's success is based on where your eyes are. If you're not in the right spot, you're seeing an illusion. I like to have the ETE line parallel to the 12:00 line in your field of vision. If one ball is farther to the left/right than the other, you're in danger of not making the ball.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
CTE and 90/90 are the same geometric system. So if you're making balls with one and not the other, you're doing one of the systems incorrectly.

Instead of aligning your body to the outermost edge in CTE, 90/90 makes OB alignment adjustments (90/90, 90/half, 90/reverse-90). It's the same thing, however. When you're excellent at each system, you can do one system and then double-check with the other and they're exactly the same.

As with CTE, 90-90's success is based on where your eyes are. If you're not in the right spot, you're seeing an illusion. I like to have the ETE line parallel to the 12:00 line in your field of vision. If one ball is farther to the left/right than the other, you're in danger of not making the ball.
Click to expand...

I use Geno's Perfect Aim when I'm sighting the ETE. I got this tip from you which COMPLETELY changes my aiming point. If I miss a shot I reset it and sure enough most of my misses are because I'm not sighting ETE correctly. I arrive there by circling in and looking across the ETE...again your fault. :)
 
Mikjary said:
I use Geno's Perfect Aim when I'm sighting the ETE. I got this tip from you which COMPLETELY changes my aiming point. If I miss a shot I reset it and sure enough most of my misses are because I'm not sighting ETE correctly. I arrive there by circling in and looking across the ETE...again your fault. :)
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I think most people don't get what I mean with that -- I'm glad you do. It's so huge.
 
All the systems go out the window when you add inside english or a large amount of any sidespin for that matter. Why don't you guys just visualize the ball going in the hole when the tip of your cue is paused at the cue ball. Also practice 6 hours a day and it will all come together for you. Aiming system DVDs are a bunch of $hit.
 
RoadAgent said:
All the systems go out the window when you add inside english or a large amount of any sidespin for that matter. Why don't you guys just visualize the ball going in the hole when the tip of your cue is paused at the cue ball. Also practice 6 hours a day and it will all come together for you. Aiming system DVDs are a bunch of $hit.
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... and those who can't...:mad: well, they never will!
 
Mikjary said:
I have been learning the 90/90 aiming system that Ron Vitello teaches. Spidey has put out alot of good info about this and I would like to hear other objective opinions and ideas from other users. I ask that you keep your responses about the system and not start a flame war because this is another pivot based aiming thread.

If you don't use the system feel free to post and learn. Just keep your message on subject.
Click to expand...

Hope you don't mind me bringing up your thread from waaay back. :)

A few days ago I was reading a post from a player that has been very successful using this system. So I thought, what the heck, I'll take a look at it. So off I went scouring the Internet looking for information on 90/90. There is not much, but their is enough to keep you looking further and practicing.

I have a home table, 4.5 x 9.0. My first time at trying this, I set an OB in the center of the table and the QB in line with the OB in the kitchen.

From a standing position I adjusted until my vision was centered on the ETE. I didn't care for doing the 1/2 ball pivot while down so I do it in the air, seems more natural to me. Pulled back the stick and shot the shot. When the OB went flying into the corner pocket you could have knocked me over with a feather. I stood their for a minute thinking WTH just happened. So I started shooting more and more shots using 90/90 from everywhere.

All I'm going to say here is, it works and works well. The only thing I would caution folks about is, make absolutely sure you have solid fundamentals and can deliver the cue in a straight line before attempting (or any system for that matter) this system.

I would like to know, how does this system work. The way I pivot into the shot is the only thing I can think of why the system works.

There is information available on YT. Cleary did a nice write-up with illustrations in PDF that is available on Dr. Dave's site.

I'm impressed. Now I have 3 aiming systems available for pocketing and banking. I need to find a bigger tool box.:)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks (This topic should probably be moved to the "Aiming" section.)

John
 
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90/90

I met Ron and Spider at SBE last year and it was a pleasure. As far as im concerned 90/90 and CTE work. If it doesnt work ,then you are probably NOT lined up properly for the shot. If i try to teach friend this system the biggest problem they have is lining up the edges of the balls.If i stand in front of then and look at where they place there hand and stick before the pivot , they are not lined up" therfore , the shot wont work and thats why many people disbelieve. For 90/90 its hard at first to make yourself look at the edge of the balls since this goes against what you are used to doing.
 
One Pocket John said:
I set an OB in the center of the table and the QB in line with the OB in the kitchen.
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In other words, a straight shot.

From a standing position I adjusted until my vision was centered on the ETE. I didn't care for doing the 1/2 ball pivot while down so I do it in the air, seems more natural to me. Pulled back the stick and shot the shot. ...the OB went flying into the corner pocket
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So starting from a line parallel with the aim line, you pivoted to... the aim line. In other words, you shifted parallel, thinking you were pivoting but subconsciously correcting to the aim line.

All I'm going to say here is, it works and works well.
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All I'm going to say is "these pivot systems all seem to be ways for players to convinced themselves that they're not aiming subconsciously".

pj
chgo
 
wvmoto186 said:
I met Ron and Spider at SBE last year and it was a pleasure. As far as im concerned 90/90 and CTE work. If it doesnt work ,then you are probably NOT lined up properly for the shot. If i try to teach friend this system the biggest problem they have is lining up the edges of the balls.If i stand in front of then and look at where they place there hand and stick before the pivot , they are not lined up" therfore , the shot wont work and thats why many people disbelieve. For 90/90 its hard at first to make yourself look at the edge of the balls since this goes against what you are used to doing.
Click to expand...

If your friend is having issues with finding ETE just have him line each ball up CTC this will result in ETE. CTC is easy to find, just have him line the balls up and himself where he can see each ball (inline) touching the surface of the table.

Yeah, if your vision center has not guided your body to a proper stance, the chances of this system working for you may not happen.

Thanks for posting.

John
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
In other words, a straight shot. No, cut shots into the corner pocket/s.


So starting from a line parallel with the aim line, you pivoted to... the aim line. In other words, you shifted parallel, thinking you were pivoting but subconsciously correcting to the aim line. No parallel. From a standing position I rotate my body onto the shot line as I'm coming down.


All I'm going to say is "these pivot systems all seem to be ways for players to convinced themselves that they're not aiming subconsciously".

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post.

John
 
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