Who wants a batch of Perry's 3/8 10 pins?

[JC]

I must just be stupid but I cannot see exactly what the problem is with these. The minor and major doesn't measure too large that I can see but none of these will screw into my sanding mandrel or my lathe drivers so I just can't use them. Only the butt end of his new pins will fit so that is obviously cut different than the rest of them. I have not found a 3/8 10 pin that won't go into my tools prior to now.

There is 25 of his first rough batch and 25 of his new improved ones in SS and 15 brass ones as pictured. Total of 65 pins. $150 shipped to you if anyone wants to try them.



JC

 

[JoeyInCali]

How does it look with the thread gauge? If the minor and major are right, I'd check the pitch.

 

[JC]

How does it look with the thread gauge? If the minor and major are right, I'd check the pitch.

I'm not saying the minor and major is "right" but in comparing these pins to a rounded nose pin from Atlas that screws right into my sanding mandrel I'm not seeing where the gross interference is coming from. The atlas screw has an od of the threads of .366 and screws in kind of loose. Perry's has an od of .362 so it's not the size difference there. The Atlas has a minor of .261 and Perry's .275 so obviously the problem must lie there right? But my mandrel has an id of the threads of .310 so I would not expect a problem there, especially since the Atlas fits loose. I also have a couple other cues here with .305 minor pins that screw right in. The 3/8 10 pitch seems to match each other well so maybe it's the pitch of the thread itself is too steep making it too fat for the thread groove? I can't even get it started in the mandrel before it binds and I don't want to mess with the threads in my tools so if anyone wants these pins, make offer.

JC

 

[ideologist]

I'm not saying the minor and major is "right" but in comparing these pins to a rounded nose pin from Atlas that screws right into my sanding mandrel I'm not seeing where the gross interference is coming from. The atlas screw has an od of the threads of .366 and screws in kind of loose. Perry's has an od of .362 so it's not the size difference there. The Atlas has a minor of .261 and Perry's .275 so obviously the problem must lie there right? But my mandrel has an id of the threads of .310 so I would not expect a problem there, especially since the Atlas fits loose. I also have a couple other cues here with .305 minor pins that screw right in. The 3/8 10 pitch seems to match each other well so maybe it's the pitch of the thread itself is too steep making it too fat for the thread groove? I can't even get it started in the mandrel before it binds and I don't want to mess with the threads in my tools so if anyone wants these pins, make offer.

JC

Check with a pitch gage, they may be some weird metric that is as close to 3/8x10 as possible

 

[JC]

Check with a pitch gage, they may be some weird metric that is as close to 3/8x10 as possible

I don't have a pitch gauge. But you may be right. Or as I said in the first post, I may just be stupid.

JC

 

[JoeyInCali]

3/8 10 is a very forgiving screw when it comes to minor and major.
But, half a thread less or more per inch, will throw it off.
I bet it's the pitch.

 

[metalware10]

I can't give any suggestions now. coz' this 3/8-10 pins I have sold to around 30 ppl on ebay and AZB here, each ppl may have different tools. abt the not fit issue, I got 2 case. 1 case is because the arbor min dia is 0.23" smaller than pin min dia, and this is the 2nd.

anybody who take those pins from me before, kindly advise how you feel of the thread performance.


Edit:
add photo checked the new pin by 10tpi gauge.

I feel bad which I gave to JC can't satisfy request. but I hope someone can use those pins, the price JC offered are indeed cheap.

 

[JC]

I can't give any suggestions now. coz' this 3/8-10 pins I have sold to around 30 ppl on ebay and AZB here, each ppl may have different tools. abt the not fit issue, I got 2 case. 1 case is because the arbor min dia is 0.23" smaller than pin min dia, and this is the 2nd.

anybody who take those pins from me before, kindly advise how you feel of the thread performance.

Better yet anyone who got those pins and liked them, buy mine for reduced price.

My tools are faulty so I can't use them. I have no intention of building a cue without using my sanding mandrels and the pins just don't go in, so what can I do?

For someone else these will probably be just fine.

JC

 

[Dave38]

Better yet anyone who got those pins and liked them, buy mine for reduced price.

My tools are faulty so I can't use them. I have no intention of building a cue without using my sanding mandrels and the pins just don't go in, so what can I do?

For someone else these will probably be just fine.

JC

My suggestion, with no offence meant to anyone, based on following these pins since advertised here awhile ago, is that the person selling them should offer a full refund. 3/8x10 is a pretty standard deal in the cue building world. If they don't fit the normal tooling, it's not your fault, it's the suppliers problem and therefore a full refund should be done. Selling them here without a tap that fits this apparently slightly different thread won't do anybody any favors. Perry should just give your money back in exchange for the return of the pins.

Dave (that's why I buy USA made 3/8x10)

 

[metalware10]

Better yet anyone who got those pins and liked them, buy mine for reduced price.

My tools are faulty so I can't use them. I have no intention of building a cue without using my sanding mandrels and the pins just don't go in, so what can I do?

For someone else these will probably be just fine.

JC

JC,

I'm trying to solve it. I consult one who have my pin. coz' the first pitch in photo below are sharp & few have very slight burrs. just slight touch with rough sandpaper on the red circle below and polish up nicely with finish grade sand paper. Take very little time or effort. he said he have same issue you mentioned with few pins, he work it out by this way. you can see that the pin thread is fine & fit with tap

kindly check using this method. I don't hope loss your trust to me. if it still don't work with your sanding mandrel, you just return those pins, I will full refund.

hope it's good to you

B.Rgds
Perry

 

[JoeyInCali]

The pitch looks off. More like 9 TPI.

 

[ideologist]

The pitch looks off. More like 9 TPI.

I was thinking it was like 9.5, it's really close, but the gage is off a bit.

I am pretty sure these are a metric conversion to 10tpi.

Perry, find a shop with tooling for Imperial threading.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I was thinking it was like 9.5, it's really close, but the gage is off a bit.

I am pretty sure these are a metric conversion to 10tpi.

Perry, find a shop with tooling for Imperial threading.

It's gonna be an in-betweener if the maker is using metric gears.
I don't see why he'd do that.
Switching back gears isn't all that hard on those imported lathes.
These screws should really be made by a CNC machine imo.

 

[RBC]

I'm sure they are all made by CNC, so the gears and any conversions should really be a factor.

I would think that the issue is the pitch diameter. When I look at his pins, they look to me like they are cut with a traditional 60° included angle tool that comes to the normal point.

For pins like Migliore makes, the tool must be flattened or "tipped" so that it can essentially cut the threads the same, but leave the flat bottom.

I think on these pins, he's pulling back on the depth to get a little of the flattened bottom, and then coming back and turning the OD down to our normal size. What this does is makes each thread "thicker" than what it would normally be if it was cut to the proper depth. It's been a long time, but I think the pitch diameter is measured half way from the tip of the threads to the root of the threads. If he's cutting them the way it looks to me, then the cut depth is shallower and will have a larger pitch diameter.

I think this website may answer some of the questions.

http://www.threadcheck.com/the-three-wire-method-of-measuring-pitch-diameter/technicalinfo/

In any case, the seller should buy back all the pins he's sold, and go back to the drawing board. If he plans to continue with this, he needs to perfect his product before he starts selling them, especially internationally. If I'm not mistaken, this is the same guy who was selling "radial" taps there didn't even have a radial thread profile to them.


Royce

 

[ROB.M]

Post

The 10 TPI gauge fits as a 10 TPI should. The 2.5 mm is a 9-1/2 TPI but clocks to 10 on a gauge.
These pins fit the arbors and mandrels once you feel the top shoulder with sand paper lightly.

For those of you that have these pins, screw the non center drilled end in to your mandrel or arbors, most likely the pin will screw with ease.
The pin fits any 3/8-10 I throw at it.




Rob.M

 

[JC]

Rob I don't get what you're saying to do. On the brass ones and the first batch of SS no end will screw into my tools. On the latest SS pins with the glue relief slot, the rear end will screw in but the front binds at the very first thread although they do screw into test holes I have drilled and tapped in wood with various minor dimensions so I know it's not the pitch that's the issue.

John

Edit: I sanded on that end until my wrists were numb. Then I tried a file. Then I sanded some more. It still won't thread in my tools.

I think Royce is right, I should just ask for a refund but in comes the problem with buying from China. It's a large pain in the ass to ship back and expensive. I don't have the arrangement that the Chinese vendors seem to get with the shippers.

Anyone want these for $100? They screw into 3/8 10 test holes I've cut ok with various minor dimensions. Actually they feel pretty good in wood. So if you're not using a sanding mandrel they should work for you.

JC

 

[ROB.M]

Pin

Rob I don't get what you're saying to do. On the brass ones and the first batch of SS no end will screw into my tools. On the latest SS pins with the glue relief slot, the rear end will screw in but the front binds at the very first thread although they do screw into test holes I have drilled and tapped in wood with various minor dimensions so I know it's not the pitch that's the issue.

John

Edit: I sanded on that end until my wrists were numb. Then I tried a file. Then I sanded some more. It still won't thread in my tools.

I think Royce is right, I should just ask for a refund but in comes the problem with buying from China. It's a large pain in the ass to ship back and expensive. I don't have the arrangement that the Chinese vendors seem to get with the shippers.

Anyone want these for $100? They screw into 3/8 10 test holes I've cut ok with various minor dimensions. Actually they feel pretty good in wood. So if you're not using a sanding mandrel they should work for you.

JC

-

I went WAY overboard with this operation but I think you will understand the process of the operation now that it's obvious where I sanded.
NOTE: you don't need to cone shape, only light touch protruding barrel will do the trick but like I said.. I went overboard to show the tight area.
If the short end thread fit than the long end will to with little sanding.

The process to sand,grind or cut the issue area only took me moments and was very little effort.





Rob.M

 

[Dave38]

Should be able to do that in a lathe, chuck up on the barrel and then use a carbide cutter to cut an angle onto the tip. If it works, its cheaper than shipping back.
Dave

 

[ROB.M]

Pin

I want to say this will work, the bottom of the pin TPI is same as top.
The flank of the thread is true from the crest to the root 3/8-10.

The best fitting pins I've come across once I touch up the shoulder of the barrel.

I can think of 4 or 5 ways I could have done the process in the shop. For the guys who don't own a shop full of tools and gadgets I'll suggest a simple way this can be done if you don't have a powerful or adequate lathe- use a grinding or sanding wheel in chuck/ hold part in hand and rotate to lightly touch the area then chuck up the pin and lightly face/sand/polish/buff to like new....you'll soon start thinking like a tool maker in which every guy who builds or services cues should.


Some of the best tooling is homemade single purpose tools.




Rob.M

 

[JC]

I want to say this will work, the bottom of the pin TPI is same as top.
The flank of the thread is true from the crest to the root 3/8-10.

The best fitting pins I've come across once I touch up the shoulder of the barrel.

I can think of 4 or 5 ways I could have done the process in the shop. For the guys who don't own a shop full of tools and gadgets I'll suggest a simple way this can be done if you don't have a powerful or adequate lathe- use a grinding or sanding wheel in chuck/ hold part in hand and rotate to lightly touch the area then chuck up the pin and lightly face/sand/polish/buff to like new....you'll soon start thinking like a tool maker in which every guy who builds or services cues should.


Some of the best tooling is homemade single purpose tools.




Rob.M

I understand exactly what you're saying Rob.

On the other hand

Some thing as simple as a screw should operate as designed without intervention from MacGyver.

JC