Who wants a batch of Perry's 3/8 10 pins?
- Thread starter JC
- Start date
Sorry, I hate to be the voice of REASON here and with no disrespect to Perry, He is in another country and trying to selling something that is defectively made, and we can already buy it here in the USA for basically the same price, and it is made correctly the first time, why buy over seas??? It is literally cheaper to buy here. I fail to see the advantage or the lure... Not to mention that if there's a problem it's very expensive to return. Anyone buying these are basically being the guinea pig while Perry's contractors figure out how to do it right after multiple try's. meanwhile you paid the same price you would if you bought it thru the well known source that doesn't make bad ones... and keeps America running.......
And if there's a problem He takes care of it right away, no extra cost.
I can see trying to keep costs in check, but really???? Is it worth the aggravation?
I think not!
Dave
.
And if there's a problem He takes care of it right away, no extra cost.
I can see trying to keep costs in check, but really???? Is it worth the aggravation?
I think not!
Dave
.
I must correct it...
I'm not a liar or play a trick to sell defective parts as you said, it's just stupid. if you saw my reply above, I didn't notice that this new pin won't fit tight tool, and JC also mentioned, it will fit good to wood with different min dia.
I don't think the origin is an issue, for someone maybe. people just know what they want, iphone or android. why just let the market talk.
I'm trying to make things right, but not in a mess. nobody will benefit from it, either buyer or seller.
hope it's the end of this discussion.
Thanks
Perry
JC, get 3 drill dits the same size or a thread wire set, any drill or wire that fits into the thread form and sits on the thread taper sides, ie does not sit too low into the thread form, and not too high that it is on the crest. Then you can use it as a comparator with the existing thread form you have that works. This will compare the effective thread pitch.
To hold the pins in place, just use white grease or vasaline or Oring grease. They all work well to hold the pins in position while measuring them with a mic. The difference in size with and without grease is less than 2 tenths total.
There is a formula they give you in the thread wire set to be able to calculate the effective thread diameter from any given set of wire diameters and thread angle.
I use thread wires and thread mics quite a bit. But just look up the table values or else it is just using them as a comparator against a known master.
Just another tool to figure out what is happening.
Here is a link to a pdf at Little machineshop on 3 wire method. They also sell the Peedee thread wire sets.
https://littlemachineshop.com/instructions/ThreeWireMethod.pdf
this should be close,
.308 effective pitch diameter 3/8-10 depending on thread class. some are 0.002 bigger and some are 0.002 smaller-looser class.
.055 wire constant = 0.0784
E + constant = Measurement
0.308+.0784= Ø 0.386 with 0.055 wires. This is the size to look for with 0.055 wires. There are calculations if the wires are not 0.055 diameter.
Neil
To hold the pins in place, just use white grease or vasaline or Oring grease. They all work well to hold the pins in position while measuring them with a mic. The difference in size with and without grease is less than 2 tenths total.
There is a formula they give you in the thread wire set to be able to calculate the effective thread diameter from any given set of wire diameters and thread angle.
I use thread wires and thread mics quite a bit. But just look up the table values or else it is just using them as a comparator against a known master.
Just another tool to figure out what is happening.
Here is a link to a pdf at Little machineshop on 3 wire method. They also sell the Peedee thread wire sets.
https://littlemachineshop.com/instructions/ThreeWireMethod.pdf
this should be close,
.308 effective pitch diameter 3/8-10 depending on thread class. some are 0.002 bigger and some are 0.002 smaller-looser class.
.055 wire constant = 0.0784
E + constant = Measurement
0.308+.0784= Ø 0.386 with 0.055 wires. This is the size to look for with 0.055 wires. There are calculations if the wires are not 0.055 diameter.
Neil
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Pin
JC said the bottom threads of the pin thread into his tools...
The top threads are EXACT same as bottom threads..
This starting of the thread issue can be solved in two shakes of a lambs tail...
I've got several 3/8-10 shafts for tips or repair, I lightly feel the end of the pin with a file or sand paper and the pins thread in to all I can screw them into..
I'm hunting down my metal female arbor..
If you'd like I can give you a call and help you through this issue.
The shafts are all from well known cue makers.
Rob.M
JC said the bottom threads of the pin thread into his tools...
The top threads are EXACT same as bottom threads..
This starting of the thread issue can be solved in two shakes of a lambs tail...
I've got several 3/8-10 shafts for tips or repair, I lightly feel the end of the pin with a file or sand paper and the pins thread in to all I can screw them into..
I'm hunting down my metal female arbor..
If you'd like I can give you a call and help you through this issue.
The shafts are all from well known cue makers.
Rob.M
JC
Coos Cues
JC said the bottom threads of the pin thread into his tools...
The top threads are EXACT same as bottom threads..
This starting of the thread issue can be solved in two shakes of a lambs tail...
I've got several 3/8-10 shafts for tips or repair, I lightly feel the end of the pin with a file or sand paper and the pins thread in to all I can screw them into..
I'm hunting down my metal female arbor..
If you'd like I can give you a call and help you through this issue.
The shafts are all from well known cue makers.
Rob.M
Thanks Rob,
I understand what you are doing and appreciate the help. And I do see what the trouble is with them. I don't have the time or the inclination to screw with them though. A lambs tail shake here, a lambs tail shake there and pretty soon you've used up a fair amount of valuable time. Time better used for something else. Not to mention the cosmetics of It which takes even more time to correct once you grind on it.
Perry has graciously taken them back for a full refund, and that's all I can ask for.
JC
I never have understood why cuemakers seem incapable of learning this lesson, well known in business and first expressed more than 150 years ago:
"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.” [John Ruskin]
TW
Pin
Once this sillyness of the end of the pin is dealt with the pin is one of the best fitting pins available.
U guys nit pick the littlest things... You guys act like this is a serious issue... The issue has been identified and addressed and a step has been taken to correct this issue... Everytime the restaurant puts ketchup and mustard on your burger when you ordered it plane do you go on silly rants on the web about minimum wage labor... Chit!! Please let it rest guys and gals.
Case open and closed'
Rob.M
Once this sillyness of the end of the pin is dealt with the pin is one of the best fitting pins available.
U guys nit pick the littlest things... You guys act like this is a serious issue... The issue has been identified and addressed and a step has been taken to correct this issue... Everytime the restaurant puts ketchup and mustard on your burger when you ordered it plane do you go on silly rants on the web about minimum wage labor... Chit!! Please let it rest guys and gals.
Case open and closed'
Rob.M
RBC
Deceased
Rob
Well, I certainly don't think I've been nit picking anything. I'm just trying to help a couple of guys solve a problem.
Now, from my perspective, JC understands what you're talking about, and has looked to see if that was his problem. He doesn't think so. He's already said that the pins fit threaded holes and other shafts. His issue is that they don't fit his carbide sanding mandrels, and he's not willing to buy another set just to use these pins. I don't blame him.
For me, I don't see any advantages to these pins. As a matter of fact, I only see disadvantages. The price is way too high if we're talking about non-concentric pins, which is what these are. I think the seller wants people to think they offer the same advantages as the already proven concentric pins, but the truth is that they don't. These pins don't use a truncated or flat bottomed thread that is held to a very high dimensional standard. This one little feature is the main reason I use the concentric pins like these.
http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?ITEM_ID=5766&DEPARTMENT_ID=95
I use this pin, with the carbide sanding mandrels made to fit it, and I'm very happy.
Apparently, you are happy with these pins, and that's fine too.
I just think that JC's problem was a little different than what you thought it was.
Royce
thanks for root for me, Rob.
but the thing should be, when customer pay the parts, just take & then use it, should not have to re-work on it. if they're willing to rework, it's their kindness. if they don't want to, it's not their problem, but us.
if the thread is wrong, then it's function defect, more serious than any other factors. it need MAKE SURE and make correct. the things is, whatever it can run how perfect with 3/8-10 thread on wood, the pin won't fit JC's sanding mandrel, then it's not perfect, and need improve. that's what should focus to revise.
I think it's not make sense to discuss more on this post. hope it's the end.
but the thing should be, when customer pay the parts, just take & then use it, should not have to re-work on it. if they're willing to rework, it's their kindness. if they don't want to, it's not their problem, but us.
if the thread is wrong, then it's function defect, more serious than any other factors. it need MAKE SURE and make correct. the things is, whatever it can run how perfect with 3/8-10 thread on wood, the pin won't fit JC's sanding mandrel, then it's not perfect, and need improve. that's what should focus to revise.
I think it's not make sense to discuss more on this post. hope it's the end.
JC
Coos Cues
Well since I assume you are addressing me I will reply.
As a beginning cue maker I am learning the intricacies and working the bugs out building very simple cues for now. These cues have a local market among my friends and league players at this time and haven't much retail value. I own and operate a pretty successful business that is not pool related and building cues is just a serious hobby. I have no illusions of ever making a living at it. Zero. I'm keeping my day job.
Secondly with all due respect, it isn't 150 years ago anymore. China is capable of producing things every bit as good as what we make here at a fraction of the cost. In fact my guess is Perry is cutting a pretty fat hog at the prices he's asking in his own economy. Shipping is probably his biggest expense. Having an Asian wife and having travelled to that area of the world I have a respect for anyone like him trying to make a go of it so I decided to try his pins. You realize after traveling how un poor our poor really are. And lazy too for that matter.
I am not a cheapskate but I have long since noticed there isn't necessarily a correlation between price and quality of a lot of stuff. There is such a thing as a less expensive alternative being a better value. Personally I object to paying three times the actual shipping cost to receive small parts. This seems to be the norm with domestic suppliers I've noticed. It's just a few bucks but it's a pet peeve of mine. Just build it into the price of the parts for god sakes. I run my own business this way.
Which ever pin out there is the "best" at one time appeared from nowhere. Some one took a chance and built it and someone else took a chance and tried it. Just because Perry's pins turned out to have issues doesn't mean it was a foregone conclusion ahead of time. Where was the computer you used to post your big ass font scold manufactured? Not in Iowa that's for sure and if it had been you probably wouldn't have bought it due to price. BTW I shrunk them fonts down for the purpose of readability.
Again say what you like about this guy but he made it right, no quibbles. And I will buy from him again if he improves his products. Unlike some crooked home grown legends in the cue building community are willing to do. I learned that lesson too and it was way more expensive.
JC
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That would be an incorrect assumption. If I was addressing YOU I would have made that clear by quoting your post, or by, um... addressing you [by "name"].
That said, you clearly miss the point of the Ruskin quote. Allow me to help you with that by adding emphasis at a couple of points in the very first sentence, and then we can see if you are able to understand it more clearly:
"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little."
If a product works for the job - even if cheaply and imprecisely made in China - then it does not meet the "TOO" modifier. That value must be weighed against the value one puts on one's time to correct the flaws necessary to make the item functional.
I value my time more highly than some others (I assume) and would rather pay a little more to get exactly what I want and/or need. Oddly, sometimes buying cheap imported crap as a way of "saving money" is actually more expensive in the long run due to the time required to make it work properly - and in reality this might be more accurately described as "paying too much".
TW
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I don't like messing around my joint screws.
I need that pilot to indicate to less than half a thou.
It better fit the mandrels.
I need that pilot to indicate to less than half a thou.
It better fit the mandrels.
JC
Coos Cues
I understood the quote just fine. Your citation of it was not the first time I have heard it and in general it's sound advice. One doesn't know for sure whether he is paying too much or too little until he tries however. Obviously these pins are a perfect example of what you're talking about but was that obvious before I mentioned it here? If you have the "cheap imported crap" good ol boy mindset then sure, but in reality their place of origin had zero to do with it.
I bought a moderately expensive hand made by an American machine and it was a POS built by a man with no integrity. So there you go.
JC