Who will Prevail/Fail in 8ball?

jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now that it seems EVERYONE will be playing 8ball because of the IPT tour, who among the pro 9ball players will thrive...and likewise, who will falter? Since 9ball relies more on shot-making and 8ball more on strategy, there is probably little correlation between success/failure in 9ball and success/failure in 8ball.

I think the more cerebral and creative pro players will rise to the top. Examples are Efren, Parica, Deuel, and any of the good one-pocket players who still have excellent potting abilities. As for players that may falter? I wouldn't be surprised to see Strickland, Hohmann, and Owen not making a significant impact on the tour (at least at first). I'll probably get flamed for my choices, but some of the 150 have to be in the middle/bottom of the pack.
 
Egads ....

"Flame on' ... Just because these guys play 9 ball tournaemts
doesn't mean they haven't spent thousands of hours playing
8 ball.... Most have, especially pros. I know for sure that Gabe
has because I have known him ever since he was 16. And he just
won the Carolinas Open 1 pocket tournament. Pros know how to
play ANY Pool game where they can make money. Now, I have
seen players better at 9, than 8 ball, not a real big difference, but
some. Don't worry, Earl knows how to play good 8 ball.
I agree that the more mentally minded players will rise to the top,
because they deal with the complexities of the game better, but,
Pool is all about making 'good choices', and just because you thought
of all of the best options doesn't guarantee that you will choose
the best one, and then you have to execute it flawlessly.
I think your fast shooting 9 ballers though will end up making
mistakes they can not get out of, and might cause them to lose
a match. Rodney Morris shoots pretty fast, I hope he slows down
a little for 8 ball.
 
jsp said:
I think the more cerebral and creative pro players will rise to the top. Examples are Efren, Parica, Deuel, and any of the good one-pocket players who still have excellent potting abilities. As for players that may falter? I wouldn't be surprised to see Strickland, Hohmann, and Owen not making a significant impact on the tour (at least at first).
Click to expand...

Wow!!! I think you got it ALL wrong as far as Hohmann and Owen. Both are master 8 ballers from what I hear. Further, Hohmann's favorite game is straight pool and Gabe is an excellent One Pocket & bar box player so...

As a matter of fact, it'd be easy to tell even by their 9 ball game that they'd do well in 8 ball. Simply because Gabe and Hohmann both play some of the most intelligent patterns in the game.

That being said, Efren's got 5 World 8 Ball titles. And Mike Sigel from what I hear couldn't be beat playing 8 ball. Just have to see whether they can keep up with the young guns.

I'll tell you who I think may not dominate as much: Johnny Archer. Which isn't to say that he'll fall off the charts. But I guess we'll have to see...
 
I think that the guys who play good straight pool will do will in 8 ball. As we all know 8 ball and straight pool cause for bumping of the rack in order to get the balls out you need.
 
In the Netherlands we have also 8 ball in our competition and in our grand prix. The Dutch pro's have to play it! Also we have the European Championships 8-ball every year with all the great European players.

The Asian players play a lot of rotation wich gives them great 8-ball skills.

My guess is that Nick van den Berg and Niels Feijen will do great for Europe and they will battle with the Pinoy's.

Only thing is the cloth and table wich can make things very different. People will like it and other hate it!
 
Ralf Souquet will be hard to beat. He has won a lot of big 8-ball titles. He's also been in the final of the German 8-ball championships the last 12 years straight. Among a field of tough players numbering 30-60+ as is my understanding. That is phenomenal!
 
Will prevail and secure their spots on the 2007 tour:

Aaron Czetli
Shawn Putnam
Corey Deuel
Tony Robles
Niels Feijen
Efren Reyes
Ralf Souquet
Thorsten Hohmann
Earl Strickland
 
No one is brave enough to mention who they think might fail (maybe not fail, but not stand out from the crowd). Getting flamed wasn't too bad. :cool:
 
50 players that will drop out of IPT

jsp said:
No one is brave enough to mention who they think might fail (maybe not fail, but not stand out from the crowd). Getting flamed wasn't too bad. :cool:
Click to expand...

I've taken 50 names out of the original 150 that I believe will be droped at the end of 2006. I guess this list will be at least 75 percent accurate (37 players out of the 50 will surely drop). Some of the names are recognized players, therefore, at least 13 of these might possibly stay).

I'm trying to be objective, therefore, I'm not trying to start any controversy.

1. Alvarez, Frank - USA
2. Blyzes, Brian - USA
3. Brienza, Paul - USA
4. Broadhurst, Jackie - USA
5. Butera, Lou - USA
6. Butera, Sal - USA
7. Carte,r Linda - USA
8. Catledge, Wayne - USA
9. Cemero, Michael - USA
10. Corr, Karen - USA
11. Crane, Wade - USA
12. Czetli, Aaron - USA
13. Di Liberto, Dany - USA
14. Di Toro, John - USA
15. Dodson, Robin - USA
16. Ellerby, Sarah - USA
17. Fisher, Kelly - USA
18. Friend, Bernie - USA
19. Fusco, Jimmy - USA
20. Fusco, Pete - USA
21. Gay, Leil - USA
22. Gulyassy, Mike - USA
23. Hofstatter, Gerda - USA
24. Incardona, William - USA
25. Jones, Loree Jon - USA
26. Jones, Sammy - USA
27. Jones, Tammy - USA
28. Kenniston, Mary - USA
29. Laurance, Ewa - USA
30. LeBron, Mike - USA
31. Massey, Mike - USA
32. Mathews, Grady - USA
33. Murphy, Austin - USA
34. Raney, Jim - USA
35. Roberts, James - USA
36. Runnels, Ike - USA
37. Thornfeldt, Helena - USA
38. Webb, Monica - USA
39. Amine, Ouahbi - France
40. Appleton, Darren - UK
41. Beaufils, Yannick - France
42. Gonzalez, Rafael - Venezuela
43. Minici, Joe - Australia
44. Montal, Edwin - Canada
45. Potier, Paul - Canada
46. Raybone, Neil - UK
47. Reljic, David - Australia
48. Thung, Denny - Indonesia
49. Wims, John - Australia
50. Younger, Johl - Australia
 
Last edited:
juegabillar said:
I've taken 50 names out of the original 150 that I believe will be droped at the end of 2006. I guess this list will be at least 75 percent accurate (37 players out of the 50 will surely drop).
Click to expand...

Do you know Edwin Montal? The ONLY way he wont keep his card would be if he does not play in the events. Alot of your list I agree with but you really missed the ball on that pick and I assume it is just because you dont really know Edwin and how strong he shoots.
 
This thread is pointless. People only mention their favorite players, or players from their own country.
 
lewdo26 said:
Wow!!! I think you got it ALL wrong as far as Hohmann and Owen. Both are master 8 ballers from what I hear. Further, Hohmann's favorite game is straight pool and Gabe is an excellent One Pocket & bar box player so...

As a matter of fact, it'd be easy to tell even by their 9 ball game that they'd do well in 8 ball. Simply because Gabe and Hohmann both play some of the most intelligent patterns in the game.

That being said, Efren's got 5 World 8 Ball titles. And Mike Sigel from what I hear couldn't be beat playing 8 ball. Just have to see whether they can keep up with the young guns.

I'll tell you who I think may not dominate as much: Johnny Archer. Which isn't to say that he'll fall off the charts. But I guess we'll have to see...
Click to expand...


In Germany, 8-Ball is played professionally in the Bundesliga (the National League). Ralf Souquet used to dominate the German and European championships in 8-ball. 8-Ball is treated as a masterclass discipline there and the players learn it's nuances alongside 9-ball and 14.1. I think you will see that all of the pro players will adapt to 8-ball just fine. It's not that much different than any other game. You will see open tables that a player should run out, you will see clusters that need to be solved, you will see safety battles and you will see some incredible shotmaking. All the pros will rise to the occassion and as always, the cream will rise to the top.

John
 
Celtic said:
Do you know Edwin Montal? The ONLY way he wont keep his card would be if he does not play in the events. Alot of your list I agree with but you really missed the ball on that pick and I assume it is just because you dont really know Edwin and how strong he shoots.
Click to expand...

Truly. A LOT of those player on the list are WORLD CLASS players that are almost even money to BEAT any pro they come across in any given set. Just because they aren't in the limelight doesn't mean that they can't play. I think this tour will show the "pool world" that there are plenty of people who deserve to be there who aren't so well known.

What I am interested in is how the next 50 will be determined? It seems as though there is some weird overlap that I am missing. If a player finishes in the bottom 50 at the end of 2006 does that mean that they are out for 2007 while a fresh 50 get to play or is there a continuous cycle of qualifiers that allows for players to keep playing? Personally I like the WPBA model as it pretty much guarantees a full field each time even though it's sort of rigged a bit.

I guess I should go to the IPT website and see what will happen. I am interested in trying to qualify.

John
 
5ballcharlie said:
I think that the guys who play good straight pool will do will in 8 ball. As we all know 8 ball and straight pool cause for bumping of the rack in order to get the balls out you need.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Unlike the bar table game there is an occasional difficult shot that needs to be made, though mostly it's about picking a pattern and staying with it. Straight pool players are the best at this as the pattern generally includes some soft bumping as you stated to unravel tied up balls. The Germans are well adapt at this.

I would imagine there will be lots of breaks and runs regardless of the slower nap. Sigel is a has-been and even in his hay-day would find it difficult to compete with today's players. I could be wrong, but there is too much strong competition for him to dominate. He did use to be top 14.1 player which is to his benefit.
 
pete lafond said:
Exactly. Unlike the bar table game there is an occasional difficult shot that needs to be made, though mostly it's about picking a pattern and staying with it. Straight pool players are the best at this as the pattern generally includes some soft bumping as you stated to unravel tied up balls. The Germans are well adapt at this.

I would imagine there will be lots of breaks and runs regardless of the slower nap. Sigel is a has-been and even in his hay-day would find it difficult to compete with today's players. I could be wrong, but there is too much strong competition for him to dominate. He did use to be top 14.1 player which is to his benefit.
Click to expand...


Pete,

Do you even play pool? When Sigel was competing he would RUN OVER today's players. Players from Sigel's era are STILL competing and still a threat to win anything they enter. Parica, Reyes, Hall, Rempe, Strickland, McCready, to name a few. Sigel quit of his own volition and that takes a lot to step away from the game you love and excel at, to take a stand.

I would like you to find ANY young player that considers ANY of the players I mentioned above to be a soft draw in a tournament. Just one quote from any of them and you get your props. Ryan McCreesh, do you consider any of the above players to be a soft draw in a professional tournament? How about you Shane Van Boeing, are any of the above guys considered a soft draw by you?

Comments like this are just nuts. I don't care WHO Sigel plays they are going to have to bring it because he is going to. At the IPT opener he ran out many, many racks from the break. So, what you say? The other pros are going to do the same thing. That's right - and who has been in more final matches than all of them, doing the same thing, Mr. Finals.

In fact, I think it's very telling that when Buddy Hall and Mike Sigel were splitting all the tournaments Reyes never made a blip on at the tournaments but since they left the scene, Sigel retired, and Buddy put on so much weight that it became difficult to play, Reyes has come to the front and began winning tournaments. Who is to say what the landscape might have looked like in the "rankings" had Sigel not quit and Buddy retained his health?

Be a student of history Pete before you call Sigel a has-been.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
In fact, I think it's very telling that when Buddy Hall and Mike Sigel were splitting all the tournaments Reyes never made a blip on at the tournaments but since they left the scene, Sigel retired, and Buddy put on so much weight that it became difficult to play, Reyes has come to the front and began winning tournaments. Who is to say what the landscape might have looked like in the "rankings" had Sigel not quit and Buddy retained his health?

John
Click to expand...


Wow, I agree with that but thems fightin words to alot of the Reyes fan club of AZBilliards.
 
Celtic said:
Do you know Edwin Montal? The ONLY way he wont keep his card would be if he does not play in the events. Alot of your list I agree with but you really missed the ball on that pick and I assume it is just because you dont really know Edwin and how strong he shoots.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you responded to my post before it was edited. A few minutes after my original post it was changed to read like this:

"I've taken 50 names out of the original 150 that I believe will be droped at the end of 2006. I guess this list will be at least 75 percent accurate (37 players out of the 50 will surely drop). Some of the names are recognized players, therefore, at least 13 of these might possibly stay).

I'm trying to be objective, therefore, I'm not trying to start any controversy."
Click to expand...

I don't know Edwin Montal. He could prove me wrong as well as the others I listed. We would just have to wait and see.
 
juegabillar said:
I don't know if you responded to my post before it was edited. A few minutes after my original post it was changed to read like this:



I don't know Edwin Montal. He could prove me wrong as well as the others I listed. We would just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
he plays some good eightball
 
onepocketchump said:
Pete,

Do you even play pool? When Sigel was competing he would RUN OVER today's players. Players from Sigel's era are STILL competing and still a threat to win anything they enter. Parica, Reyes, Hall, Rempe, Strickland, McCready, to name a few. Sigel quit of his own volition and that takes a lot to step away from the game you love and excel at, to take a stand.

I would like you to find ANY young player that considers ANY of the players I mentioned above to be a soft draw in a tournament. Just one quote from any of them and you get your props. Ryan McCreesh, do you consider any of the above players to be a soft draw in a professional tournament? How about you Shane Van Boeing, are any of the above guys considered a soft draw by you?

Comments like this are just nuts. I don't care WHO Sigel plays they are going to have to bring it because he is going to. At the IPT opener he ran out many, many racks from the break. So, what you say? The other pros are going to do the same thing. That's right - and who has been in more final matches than all of them, doing the same thing, Mr. Finals.

In fact, I think it's very telling that when Buddy Hall and Mike Sigel were splitting all the tournaments Reyes never made a blip on at the tournaments but since they left the scene, Sigel retired, and Buddy put on so much weight that it became difficult to play, Reyes has come to the front and began winning tournaments. Who is to say what the landscape might have looked like in the "rankings" had Sigel not quit and Buddy retained his health?

Be a student of history Pete before you call Sigel a has-been.

John
Click to expand...
I don't think it is fair to conclude that when Sigel and Hall left, Reyes started to win... It is by very nature a coincidence as Efren told himself that he just needed a win, just one win so that he could start winning easily.
I agree though that Mike Sigel is not a has-been.
 
Isn't Sigel

about 50 or 51? I know a few years ago, when
Billiards Digest had an article about him and his
cuemaking business, it said he was 46 then.
 
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