Well i've never seen the table myself so I can't swear to it, but a good friend of mine did see it and attested that they were samller than buckets but a little bigger than 2 balls width (4 1/2"). I believe Jay Helfert has posted on here awhile back that he's seen the table and they were 4 3/4".
who wins
- Thread starter tony semona
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Well i've never seen the table myself so I can't swear to it, but a good friend of mine did see it and attested that they were samller than buckets but a little bigger than 2 balls width (4 1/2"). I believe Jay Helfert has posted on here awhile back that he's seen the table and they were 4 3/4".
I couldn't tell you the measurements on that table, even though I was in that poolroom in the 60's. Sport Kings were a standard table being used in poolrooms all over the midwest back then. Mostly the oversized 8' model which probably had pocket openings smaller than 5". Whatever was standard for Brunswick tables of that era. I had a 9' Sport King table in my home for years and the pockets weren't that soft. Many good players played on, and were challenged by that table.
I think it's fruitless to continually rehash this old story. No question Mosconi ran 526 balls that day without missing. Over thirty witnesses signed off on the document attesting to that. Regardless of what table he did it on or what size the pockets were, it was an amazing feat. This record is etched in history just like Babe Ruth's 60 home runs. It may never be broken unless there is a revitalization of Straight Pool. In Mosconi's era, all the major tournaments were Straight Pool and consequently all the top players excelled at the game.
Here is what I do know. The wikipedia article boldly says 5-1/2" pockets and the player that I know that played on the table the day after the 526 run said it was the biggest bucket he ever played on. He said that it made the Olhausen Champion Pros we had look like a snooker table and the OCP's had 4-3/4" pockets..... Compare that to todays equipment, say a Diamond Pro-Am, that isn't even comparable. Why not give Schmidt, Hohman, Engert, Harriman, etc. a fair shot under the same conditions?
Some guy told you he played on the same table THE NEXT DAY! How old is that guy? Ask him to tell you the name of the poolroom (that's not too hard), what street it was on and what it looks like on the outside and the inside. I was in there there about ten years after Mosconi's run and I do remember the place. Ask your friend if he remembers who was working there when he went in. There was a fairly well known pool player who was the counter man.
Regardless
of what Mosconi set the record on, it is still the record to beat, and noone has mentioned the 15 World 14.1 titles that he won, which is most impressive too. I saw Mosconi in exhibition in San Diego in late 60's, and he was all about center pocket on every shot.
But, to put things in context, I believe that today's players have an edge over players of yesteryear because the cloth is faster, the rails are livelier, and the pockets are smaller usually. This makes a great deal of difference, especially for 1 pocket games.
I would have to go with Alex against Eddie Taylor (and I have seen Eddie Taylor play down in Houston years ago).
of what Mosconi set the record on, it is still the record to beat, and noone has mentioned the 15 World 14.1 titles that he won, which is most impressive too. I saw Mosconi in exhibition in San Diego in late 60's, and he was all about center pocket on every shot.
But, to put things in context, I believe that today's players have an edge over players of yesteryear because the cloth is faster, the rails are livelier, and the pockets are smaller usually. This makes a great deal of difference, especially for 1 pocket games.
I would have to go with Alex against Eddie Taylor (and I have seen Eddie Taylor play down in Houston years ago).
Buckets
I played on that table but i can't remember the pocket size.
I didn't play too smart when i was a kid but i thought anything
but a carom table leaked.
Speaking of carom tables,i walked into the old Pickwick back in Dayton.
Everett and his wife managed it for Russ.The 4 rails of the carom table
were lying on the floor(the mechanic had gone for supplies).
Everett dead-panned me and said"I don't know who he was but he
had the strongest stroke i ever SAW."
I played on that table but i can't remember the pocket size.
I didn't play too smart when i was a kid but i thought anything
but a carom table leaked.
Speaking of carom tables,i walked into the old Pickwick back in Dayton.
Everett and his wife managed it for Russ.The 4 rails of the carom table
were lying on the floor(the mechanic had gone for supplies).
Everett dead-panned me and said"I don't know who he was but he
had the strongest stroke i ever SAW."
He is now late 70's-early 80's and I haven't seen him out since I started playing again. Johnny Jacket (Jackowisz, IIRC) is his name. He was a good player in his day, Howard Vickery among others played in a weekly ring game with him and Johnny usually got the money (Howard told me that himself). So Given his age and the fact that he was a good player, I have no doubt what he said was true.
How did the person that wrote the Wiki article come up with 5-1/2" pockets?
Here is a snippet of the onepocket.org interview with George Rood and I think that you know that George knows what he is talking about when it comes to that room and that table....
1P: When you said Springfield, Ohio, I thought that sounded familiar. So that was where he ran 526?
GR: That's right. That was in the room that I owned, but I didn't own it then; I bought it later. It was the same room where we had played our exhibition, but it was after that, at another exhibition, when he ran all those balls.
1P: Was that same table where he had that run still there when you bought the room?
GR: Yes it was.
1P: I'm told that was a four by eight table?
GR: You're right. Now, we had played on a four and a half by nine, but it was a four by eight that he played on, with another fellow, on the night he had that high run.
1P: George, do you remember how tight the pockets were on that table?
GR: They were large.
He is now late 70's-early 80's and I haven't seen him out since I started playing again. Johnny Jacket (Jackowisz, IIRC) is his name. He was a good player in his day, Howard Vickery among others played in a weekly ring game with him and Johnny usually got the money (Howard told me that himself). So Given his age and the fact that he was a good player, I have no doubt what he said was true.
How did the person that wrote the Wiki article come up with 5-1/2" pockets?
Here is a snippet of the onepocket.org interview with George Rood and I think that you know that George knows what he is talking about when it comes to that room and that table....
1P: When you said Springfield, Ohio, I thought that sounded familiar. So that was where he ran 526?
GR: That's right. That was in the room that I owned, but I didn't own it then; I bought it later. It was the same room where we had played our exhibition, but it was after that, at another exhibition, when he ran all those balls.
1P: Was that same table where he had that run still there when you bought the room?
GR: Yes it was.
1P: I'm told that was a four by eight table?
GR: You're right. Now, we had played on a four and a half by nine, but it was a four by eight that he played on, with another fellow, on the night he had that high run.
1P: George, do you remember how tight the pockets were on that table?
GR: They were large.
Well anyone can write anything on Wikipedia, it's not a reliable source of information.
As to George Rood saying the pockets were big, well it's a matter of perspective. I remember when Ray Martin came to Amsterdam Billiards years ago and he played on the feature table which at the time had 4 5/8" pockets (they later switched it to a bucket table) and he commented that the pockets were big.
This debate will never end either way, 526 was the highest exhibition run but Mosconi ran 589 and 608 in practice. Eufemia ran 625, most pros that I've asked who knew him say they have no doubt he really ran it, he was a ball running machine. Even if Eufemia ran it on 5 1/2 pockets it's still an insane run! Not to mention these guys never had an incentive to make these runs. They weren't gunning for it. I get the impression that big runs weren't a big deal back then. Now you have guys like Schmidt and others talking about how great it would be to have everyone put up money for a prize fund to anyone who can beat 526, it's become a big goal. Where was Mosconi's incentive? He may have run 800 balls if he had a reason to. We all know what happens when you give a player or athlete a goal - they put up $1 million to anyone who can run 10 racks of 9 ball and Strickland does it the very first event!
He is now late 70's-early 80's and I haven't seen him out since I started playing again. Johnny Jacket (Jackowisz, IIRC) is his name. He was a good player in his day, Howard Vickery among others played in a weekly ring game with him and Johnny usually got the money (Howard told me that himself). So Given his age and the fact that he was a good player, I have no doubt what he said was true.
How did the person that wrote the Wiki article come up with 5-1/2" pockets?
Here is a snippet of the onepocket.org interview with George Rood and I think that you know that George knows what he is talking about when it comes to that room and that table....
1P: When you said Springfield, Ohio, I thought that sounded familiar. So that was where he ran 526?
GR: That's right. That was in the room that I owned, but I didn't own it then; I bought it later. It was the same room where we had played our exhibition, but it was after that, at another exhibition, when he ran all those balls.
1P: Was that same table where he had that run still there when you bought the room?
GR: Yes it was.
1P: I'm told that was a four by eight table?
GR: You're right. Now, we had played on a four and a half by nine, but it was a four by eight that he played on, with another fellow, on the night he had that high run.
1P: George, do you remember how tight the pockets were on that table?
GR: They were large.
ALL pockets looked big to George, who wasn't that big a fan of Willie's anyway. I used to watch George practice almost every day at the Cue and Bridge in Dayton on the front table, a GC1 with very tight pockets, probably 4.5" or even slightly less. So a table with 4.75" or 5" pockets would seem like buckets to him. George would run a hundred or more nearly every day, and then just quit in the middle of the run and start practicing 9-Ball.
I watched him dispose of Joey Spaeth, Johnny Dollar (Overton), the Jockey, Bill Stigell, Teddie Elias and a young Ed Kelly on that table. Johnny Ervolino refused to play him when he was in town, unless they played One Pocket. I never saw George play that game. He also beat his friend Eddie Taylor in a friendly exhibition match. Then they played some Banks and Eddie poured it on to get even. He was making five, six or more banks EVERY turn! I swear he ran some nines and tens too. He was trying to bank the whole rack every turn.
Fats stopped by more than once back then and they were buddies also. Fats would be jawing away with the crowd, but he showed a lot of respect for George, telling everyone what a champion he was. That's also the first place I saw Don Willis, another good friend of George's. He'd come in and visit once in a while and never pick up a cue. He didn't want anyone to see his speed. Lassiter was another visitor who came to Dayton maybe once a year. George was buddies with all these guys, and he'd made some good money in his life away from pool. I think they also respected him for that.
I consider myself fortunate, that I happened to hang out and later work at, a poolroom that George Rood was involved with. He was the magnet that attracted all these famous players and hustlers too. I really had no idea at that time how strong a player George was. I knew he played good, but I didn't know back then he was one of the best in the country.
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The longest run of all has been left out imo was Arthur "Babe" Cranfield. I know my grandfather always credited him with running the most balls Mr.Cranfield stated that he ran over 700 balls (768 is in my head for some reason) My grandfather knew about everyone in the pool world even if they didn't know him (that was his job to know them better then they knew him) and he considered Babe a good guy and a true champion. My grandfather said if Art says he ran that many balls then he ran that many balls. He was the head honcho at a straight pool mecca for a very very long time.
Because everyone knows that what is written in Wikipedia is always true
I know that Wiki is open source and anyone can contribute but why would someone specifically state 5-1/2" pockets.....
People say a lot of things that aren't true, things get exaggerated over time. I've heard people tell stories about matches that I've seen personally and the numbers (spots, amount wagered, balls ran etc) in the stories are much different than what I know to be true.
Yeah I knew about Babe's 768, the only reason I left that one out was because I thought he ran the first 400 or so one night and then stopped and continued the next day, I'm not sure that really counts as one run.