Who's the best cueist..?

[Samiel]

If I recall the match between Torbjorn and Reyes, I think Efren was actually leading in 3C at one point. I think 3C and 9-ball weren't good games to pick. Maybe 3C and 1P would have been better. Straight Rail and 9-ball would have been a better match as well.

Although Cuelemans has been surpassed in 3C by Torbjorn, I have heard the Cuelemans is still better at the smaller games like Straight Rail and Balkline.

These comparisons don't accomplish a lot now, do they?

 

[fan-tum]

Why isn't Schmidt included? His shotmaking is peerless. That being said I'd have to pick O'sullivan from the list.

 

[Bob Jewett]

If I recall the match between Torbjorn and Reyes, I think Efren was actually leading in 3C at one point. I think 3C and 9-ball weren't good games to pick. Maybe 3C and 1P would have been better. Straight Rail and 9-ball would have been a better match as well.

Although Ceulemans has been surpassed in 3C by Torbjorn, I have heard the Ceulemans is still better at the smaller games like Straight Rail and Balkline.
...

The all-around champ at carom these days seems to be that other C-Belgian, Frederic Caudron. While his winning averages at 3-C seem to be 0.2 or so below Jaspers and Blomdahl, he is the present world balkline champion and nearly won the 1-cushion.

Blomdahl is only beginning to learn one pocket -- even I can win a game against him from time to time. His 14.1 is better than his one pocket.

It's too bad that we can't arrange an all-around event.

As for straight rail, it is no longer a suitable game for competition at the top level. Many games to 400 end in one inning. Fortunately, the second player gets a chance to tie if the first runs out from the break. Maybe balkline.

 

[jay helfert]

here's my personal litmus test,

If your life was on the line, and you had to pick one player to shoot a life or death match in a discipline other than his own, who would it be?

Good question. I'd have to take Efren in that situation. He can play all games at a very high level.

 

[jay helfert]

Ceulemans himself has said that Torbjorn is the best HE has ever seen. his game is something to behold He also plays runout 9ball. I have seen a video somewhere maybe youtube where he plays efren 3cushion and 9ball. IIRC he defeats Efren in both games. Not that 1 match settles anything.


found it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3r1_DIyTg

Raymond is a very humble man. And he won far more championships as well. I saw both play in their primes. Blomdahl is an amazingly talented player. Ceulemans remains a GENIUS! His precision and touch were uncanny, as if the balls were on rails and he was guiding them by remote control. And I guess he was.

 

[TheOne]

The only way to answer this question is first answer who's the best on each table and then compare those.

Efren is a million miles ahead of anyone on a pool table when you consider 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, straight pool, rotation, banks etc. No player would even play Efren all these games if it was his ass on the line.

Ronnie is the greatest Snooker cueist ever, if anyone doubts this watch his demolition of Hendry tonight, from 4:1 down he win's 17 of the next 19 racks!

I don't know enough about 3 cushion to comment.

O'Sullivan or Efren, very tough call - if I had to I'd pick Ronnie just because he's so far ahead of the rest in a much more competitive field (eg much more cash on the line so thousands more players dedicating their lives to take his crown).

Efren is still a legend though.

 

[PoolBum]

Among pool players at least the best current cueist from this list would be between Shane and Ralf.

IMO Ralf is not mentioned nearly often enough as being among the very best players in the world today.

Blomdahl and O'Sullivan are also incredibly talented with a cue, but I don't keep up with 3C or snooker as much as pool.

 

[PoolBum]

Raymond is a very humble man. And he won far more championships as well. I saw both play in their primes. Blomdahl is an amazingly talented player. Ceulemans remains a GENIUS! His precision and touch were uncanny, as if the balls were on rails and he was guiding them by remote control. And I guess he was.

Ceulemans had the most solid bridge I ever saw. The man had a bridge of stone.

 

[PoolBum]

Put 15 balls on the table and someone has to run it out for your life, who'd you pick?
I'll take Efren.

If they're snooker balls on a snooker table I'll take Ronnie.

If they're billiard balls on a billiard table I'm in trouble.

 

[jsp]

I'm dumbfounded as to why people would consider Shane as the best "cueist" today?

Doesn't the term "cueist" imply versatility, not only in the different games of one cueing discipline, but in all cueing disciplines?

Granted, Shane is probably the best 9-ball/10-ball player on the planet, but is he even the most versatile pool player today? Has he ever made top-5 in the DCC all around? Has ever competed in a straight pool tournament? Not to mention if he ever dabbled in snooker or 3C.

There are only four people on the list I would even consider as being one of the best "cueists"...Efren, Blomdahl, Ronnie, and Drago. If you consider all cue games, only Efren and Blomdahl stands out. But I still voted for Efren.

 

[Celtic]

Among pool players at least the best current cueist from this list would be between Shane and Ralf.

You omit Yang, Wu, Orcollo, Alcano, Kou, and others from Taiwan and the Philipines in place of Shane? I cannot agree with that at all. Shane has dominated pool in the USA for the last while now but he has not proven himself on the world stage as yet when the best players from the powerhouse nations show up. He has yet to do it in the WPC when all the big boys show up, and some names year after year in that tournament show up pretty high while so called greats get knocked out of their opening brackets before the elimination round even begins.

I admit Shane is a good player, but to come out with a statement that the best cueist is between only him and Ralf?

Maybe it is time for the TAR to get a Shane vs Yang match going, Yang being the guy that beat Orcollo when noone else wanted any of him in a match meant to find out the best of the best money players at the time. If Shane plays Yang in a long (race to 50 or more) set of 10 ball on a diamond I will take action on Yang.

 

[Celtic]

Granted, Shane is probably the best 9-ball/10-ball player on the planet

Seriously, what has he done to prove that? He could get played all day long by alot of people from the Phillipines and Taiwan, he has done great on the USA scene and is likely the best player on this continent atm but this continent is not the place where the game is played at it's highest level anymore.

 

[JB Cases]

here's my personal litmus test,

If your life was on the line, and you had to pick one player to shoot a life or death match in a discipline other than his own, who would it be?

Torbjorn Blohmdahl. Efren Reyes and then Ronnie O'Sullivan.

 

[jay helfert]

Ceulemans had the most solid bridge I ever saw. The man had a bridge of stone.

His entire stance was STONE. He looked like a tank at the table.

 

[jay helfert]

Cmon you guys, give me some votes. I want to win this thing so I can play on the next IPT Shootout! I'll play anyone on the list for $2,500! YES, you heard me right! ANYONE!!!




i didn't say i would win did i

 

[Stones]

Torbjorn Blohmdahl. Efren Reyes and then Ronnie O'Sullivan.

I have to agree with that.

But, I want a chromosome check on all three to prove they're human. LOL

Stones

 

[PoolBum]

You omit Yang, Wu, Orcollo, Alcano, Kou, and others from Taiwan and the Philipines in place of Shane? I cannot agree with that at all.

Those are all great players who would definitely be on my short list. Just show me where they are on this poll and I'll include them:

Earl Strickland
Efren Reyes
Jay Helfert
Niels Feijen
Ralf Souquet
Ronnie O'Sullivan
Shane Van Boening
Tony Drago
Torbjorn Blomdahl
I like to watch 'American Idol'

 

[hilla_hilla]

All around: Efren
Currently: SVB
Years of experience: Jay Helfert

 

[worriedbeef]

I'm dumbfounded as to why people would consider Shane as the best "cueist" today?

Doesn't the term "cueist" imply versatility, not only in the different games of one cueing discipline, but in all cueing disciplines?

Granted, Shane is probably the best 9-ball/10-ball player on the planet, but is he even the most versatile pool player today? Has he ever made top-5 in the DCC all around? Has ever competed in a straight pool tournament? Not to mention if he ever dabbled in snooker or 3C.

There are only four people on the list I would even consider as being one of the best "cueists"...Efren, Blomdahl, Ronnie, and Drago. If you consider all cue games, only Efren and Blomdahl stands out. But I still voted for Efren.

don't forget people the emphasis for this poll is their cueing ability, not nessecarilly the winningest player.

as for shane being included, he spears long shots in 100mph better than anybody i have ever seen, including hendry from snooker. if that isn't a justification for being on the above list then i don't know what is.

personally i don't see how you can include drago on the list. good player though he is, greatest cueist ever?

 

[JB Cases]

Seriously, what has he done to prove that? He could get played all day long by alot of people from the Philippines and Taiwan, he has done great on the USA scene and is likely the best player on this continent atm but this continent is not the place where the game is played at it's highest level anymore.

I agree with this. Although I think Shane could easily hang with the best players in Asia. I think on any given day in any given race it's a tossup. I mean he has already beaten Orcullo and Alcano in high profile events. He won most of his action match-ups in the Philippines last year.

And Shane didn't HAVE the advantage of being in the company of bonafide WORLD BEATERS all the time as the players in the Philippines and Taiwan have. He had to go on the road and EARN the experience the hard way. Not to say it's not tough in Asia but if you have that many stone cold killers in your immediate area you will either become one of them or get killed.

THAT is part of the problem in American pool at the moment. Players who want to get good are pretty much on their own for the most part.

Sure, there are lots of local tournament but WORLD BEATERS on par with those in the Philippines and Taiwan are scarce and spread out. And the ones that are here are not keen on being bothered by those looking to replace them IMO.

In the Philippines there are two avenues to getting better, gambling and organized training. And these two methods intermix as well.

In Taiwan the training and gambling are also available. The thing is that in both of these countries there is much more support for up and coming players than in the USA. In the USA it's the Self-Support program consisting of scuffling around and hustling and matching up unfairly (to the opponent) in order to continue to make enough money to fund the Self Development route.

In the Philippines one can play champions for small money with no need to hustle or try and con people. This is a great way to separate the champions from those who can't cut it.

So back to who the best cueist is?

Well, in my opinion it's the person who exhibits the most control over the cueball and can do this in all games. Torbjorn Blohmdahl gets my vote here as I firmly believe that he has the capability to easily LEARN the MOVES in all games and the fact that he already has shown that he can play world class level pocket billiards makes him the candidate for best cueist in the world.

However, with billiards (both pocket and pocketless) being played in more variations than just about any other sport or game, this topic is likely to have no clear agreement ever. There are just too many variables.