hemicudas said:
After what Sigel said about Hall it is really hard for me to think anyone was better then him when he was in his prime.
For those who do not know the refference he said something like "Buddy is the only guy I ever shot my best against and still lost". That is paraphrasing but the meaning is pretty clear and who it comes from is really the shocker. For Sigel to admit even his best was sometimes not good enough against Hall... well I just wish I could have seen that guy back in the day.
recoveryjones said:
You argue against Earl because for all the skills (and I do believe he is the most naturally gifted pool player I have ever laid my eyes on) he has a crap mental game. His sky high skills mask a VERY weak mental game. Sigel was almost the opposite. Sure he has skills, but a far cry from Strickalnds level. Where Sigel more then made up the difference was in his mental game, he is simply a killer when the chips are on the table and knows how to bare down and win like noone I have witnessed.
Take Strickland's physical skills and talent, merge that with Sigel's metal prowess and drive/ability to win, and you dont have a great pool player, you would have THE god of billiards and every tournament all the other guys would be playing for second.
Celtic said:
I wish I had seen Sigel play more before he "resigned". Luckily, we all get the chance again. I read a quote from him where he said that when he really stares down a long cut shot, he can't remember the last time he missed one. I think he was talking about spot shot varieties, not hair-thin ones. I can't wait for the IPT show!
beetle said:
He was awesome. There are a few videos of him in his slightly later years before he quit from Accustats. You can get a good idea of his game there. Plus one video of him is supposedly against local AZBilliard member Mark Tad so you get to see Sigel AND Tad.
Celtic said:
On the other hand I have seen Strickland beat Buddy on sheer firepower when Buddy was playing perfect, at least in one set. I think there are different criteria that one can use when deciding who's the greatest nine-ball player of all time. I have a hard time believing that anyone has more firepower or can string racks together better than Strickland at his best, but then we also know the legend of how Buddy played for that stretch in the early seventies down in LA, and as far as being at the top for the longest and having the most titles I think Sigel is unrivaled.
Celtic said:
I have to disagree. I think that Earl's mental game is most definitely suspect as far as consistency is concerned--you just don't know sometimes which Earl will show up. But he is fierce and as focused as can be at times in the biggest possible arenas--the U.S. Open and the World Championship. You don't win that many major titles without being strong mentally, which to me means playing at the top of your game when the major title is on the line.
earl
Yes, I too think earl strickland is the best nine ball player in the planet. But everytime I think he's the best because of his power, his duels with efren reyes(Color of Money I and II) makes his credentials as being the best go down. But still, theoretically, in a forum's perspective, he's the best in the world. I'll add francisco bustamante to the list also by the way.
Yes, I too think earl strickland is the best nine ball player in the planet. But everytime I think he's the best because of his power, his duels with efren reyes(Color of Money I and II) makes his credentials as being the best go down. But still, theoretically, in a forum's perspective, he's the best in the world. I'll add francisco bustamante to the list also by the way.
I'll add Efren's mental game and creativity, Sigel's drive to winning, Bustamante's break, and Earl's physical skills and you got the God of Pool, no matter what kind of pool game you'd play...not sure about snooker though as only efren had played snooker before against top players.Celtic said:
PoolBum said:
I really disagree. Sure he shows up on occasion, but his success in pool is based on his talent and not on his mental fortitude. He is a powerful front runner, when he is feeling good and winning he steamrolls people. But when things dont go his way he collapses. He is VERY mentally weak if things are not going well for him. He is ruthless against a weak opponent or one off their game. When he gets shot back at though he falters. The same cannot be said for Sigel, no matter how well someone shot against him he turned it up another notch because no matter how well that person was shooting Mike always thought he was the better player and was supposed to win.
Earl has won all those events because he is the biggest talent in the sport. His natural talent is quite alot higher then any other pro's IMO. His mental game is what held him back from being the most dominate player of the last 20 years. He could have been the next Mosconi and people like Archer and Reyes would have been playing for second if Earl had ever had a powerful mental game.
That being said I think Earl had a far better mental game in the past when he won most of those titles as well. If you watch old footage of Earl(late 80's early 90's) and compare it to new footage of Earl (late 90's+) you see a VERY different mental approach. You see a change from a young guy who was fearless to a guy who is scared to lose. Even in his youth though he was never near the mental fortitude of Sigel. Anyone who knows Sigel and the way he played I dont think could disagree.
it is really hard if not impossible to say who is the best ever coz all top players can beat each other at any given time. all these top players could string racks that you only see in your dreams. there is no clear cut player who rises above the rest like what tiger woods or michael schumacher did for their respective sport few years ago. (but if this poll was about the best player in one-pocket or rotation, the gap between the best and second best can clearly be seen).
I agree. Picking a "best ever" in 9ball is just too difficult, or even a top three list, because of the nature of the game. Not only is there too much luck in the game, the game is very streaky. If you can't pick someone that has dominated 9ball the past 5 years, then you can't single out who the best of all time is. Like royuco77 said, you can definitely say who is dominating one-pocket and rotation today, because luck is less of a factor in these games. It's a true testament to Efren's skill if he's still considered by many of you as one of the best 9ball players ever, and he himself considers 9ball his WORST game.royuco77 said:
BUT...if I was forced to pick a top 5, I'd have to go with Hall, Sigel, Strickland, Reyes, and Pagulayan.
i agree...9 ball = >70% luck.jsp said:
Here are my views:
Best 9 ball player ever: Earl Strickland(if he's on his game) followed by Mike Sigel, Johnny Archer, Francisco Bustamante
Best tournament player ever: Mike Sigel
Best "all-around" player ever (tournament/gambling): Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: Efren Reyes (followed by Ronnie Allen in his hey day)
Best straight pool: Ralph Greenleaf followed by Mosconi
Best bank pool player ever: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box player ever: Keith McCready
Best 8 ball player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 15 ball rotation player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 9 ball player ever: Earl Strickland(if he's on his game) followed by Mike Sigel, Johnny Archer, Francisco Bustamante
Best tournament player ever: Mike Sigel
Best "all-around" player ever (tournament/gambling): Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: Efren Reyes (followed by Ronnie Allen in his hey day)
Best straight pool: Ralph Greenleaf followed by Mosconi
Best bank pool player ever: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box player ever: Keith McCready
Best 8 ball player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 15 ball rotation player ever: Efren Reyes
Best players
Here are my views:
Best 9 ball player ever: Earl Strickland(if he's on his game) followed by Mike Sigel, Johnny Archer, Francisco Bustamante
Best tournament player ever: Mike Sigel
Best "all-around" player ever (tournament/gambling): Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: Efren Reyes (followed by Ronnie Allen in his hey day)
Best straight pool: Ralph Greenleaf followed by Mosconi
Best bank pool player ever: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box player ever: Keith McCready
Best 8 ball player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 15 ball rotation player ever: Efren Reyes
Here are my views:
Best 9 ball player ever: Earl Strickland(if he's on his game) followed by Mike Sigel, Johnny Archer, Francisco Bustamante
Best tournament player ever: Mike Sigel
Best "all-around" player ever (tournament/gambling): Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: Efren Reyes (followed by Ronnie Allen in his hey day)
Best straight pool: Ralph Greenleaf followed by Mosconi
Best bank pool player ever: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box player ever: Keith McCready
Best 8 ball player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 15 ball rotation player ever: Efren Reyes
Whimpy..Without a doubt..