Whos the best Nine ball player EVER???

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my 2 cents

Best 9 ball player ever: Buddy Hall for his position play (he almost never has to shoot a hard shot) Followed by Reyes than a big gap and then you name 'em

Best tournament player ever: Strickland and Archer
Best "all-around" player ever: Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: no vote
Best straight pool: Mosconi, Ortman, Mizerak

New categories:

Most entertaining to watch: Keith, Sigel
Most spectacular to watch: Alle the Pinoy's for the style and heart

:-)
Markus
 
Mostly

bobson_215 said:
Here are my views:

Best 9 ball player ever: Earl Strickland(if he's on his game) followed by Mike Sigel, Johnny Archer, Francisco Bustamante
Best tournament player ever: Mike Sigel
Best "all-around" player ever (tournament/gambling): Efren Reyes
Best One Pocket ever: Efren Reyes (followed by Ronnie Allen in his hey day)
Best straight pool: Ralph Greenleaf followed by Mosconi
Best bank pool player ever: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box player ever: Keith McCready
Best 8 ball player ever: Efren Reyes
Best 15 ball rotation player ever: Efren Reyes
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On 9 ball, the candidates would be Earl, Sigel, Lassiter, Archer, Buddy, Reyes, IMO. I can not decide on just one, they all have had their runs.
tournament: Sigel, Archer, Buddy
(People seem to forget that Buddy Hall was rated in top 5 players over
20 years in a row.)
all around: Efren, without a doubt
One Pocket: Efren
Straight Pool: Mosconi, then Greenleaf for me
(Mosconi has always been one of my idols... can't rate him 2nd, are you
crazy ... lol)
Best Bank: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box: Keith has time in rank, but David Matlock is pretty close.
(By the way, Buddy Hall was helll on wheels on a bar box too)
Best 8 ball: Undecided, Efren or Sigel, fuzzy on that one
Best rotation: Efren, would anyone even challenge him?
 
Maybe the best way to ask is to say if you emptied your bank account and had to give it to a player to gamble with, who would it be? or better yet, ask all the pros who had to play all the best, see what they think? ...G
 
Celtic said:
I really disagree. Sure he shows up on occasion, but his success in pool is based on his talent and not on his mental fortitude. He is a powerful front runner, when he is feeling good and winning he steamrolls people. But when things dont go his way he collapses. He is VERY mentally weak if things are not going well for him. He is ruthless against a weak opponent or one off their game. When he gets shot back at though he falters. The same cannot be said for Sigel, no matter how well someone shot against him he turned it up another notch because no matter how well that person was shooting Mike always thought he was the better player and was supposed to win.

Earl has won all those events because he is the biggest talent in the sport. His natural talent is quite alot higher then any other pro's IMO. His mental game is what held him back from being the most dominate player of the last 20 years. He could have been the next Mosconi and people like Archer and Reyes would have been playing for second if Earl had ever had a powerful mental game.

That being said I think Earl had a far better mental game in the past when he won most of those titles as well. If you watch old footage of Earl(late 80's early 90's) and compare it to new footage of Earl (late 90's+) you see a VERY different mental approach. You see a change from a young guy who was fearless to a guy who is scared to lose. Even in his youth though he was never near the mental fortitude of Sigel. Anyone who knows Sigel and the way he played I dont think could disagree.
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Yes, Earl is a powerful frontrunner, but he has also made many very strong comebacks against the best players. Some of these performances are on Accu-Stats. He was down 12-8 to Archer in a race to 13 and stormed back to win the last 5 games and take the match in a Sands tourny. He was down 9-5 to Buddy Hall with Hall playing perfect and strung 5 racks together and then won the last game to take the match 11-9. Buddy played an almost perfect set in that one. Earl has had many comeback wins, and also has many close wins in title matches against great players. His win over Bustamante in the world's a few years ago required great mental focus, as Bustamante was ahead almost the entire second half of the match until Earl won the last four games to win the match and the title 17-15. I also have some older tapes showing the same mental focus in close matches against top competition. A 1988 tape of the finals of the Tara Open in Atlanta between Efren and Earl has both players at the absolute peak of their game (the first mistake in that match of any kind comes in the 13th or 14th game, and it's a push-out by Efren that gives Earl a shot and he runs out). Efren led most of the match and was playing almost flawlessly and got to the hill first, but Earl took control in the last 2 or 3 games to win 15-14.

I agree that Earl has major problems with the consistency of his mental focus, but I don't agree that he has no mental focus and only wins on pure talent, and I think these examples show that. You simply cannot overcome the greatest players in the world when they are on their game and in extremely close matches or matches you are behind in unless you can put it together mentally at that moment and play your best game.
 
best nine ball player ever

Samy Strokes said:
Luther Lassiter. My father played in the same room as him in the early 80's. I believe it was the Golden Cue ( the jersy one) He told me that he was playing lassiter to "warm him up" for a tournament one time, and Luther proceeded to break and run 17 racks on him. He gave his scouts honor that the number was correct, and my fathers a pretty honest guy. I've never heard of anyone doing that, the closest I can come to is Feijen running 15 I think it was a couple years back while practicing. All the hall of famer's that I've ever heard way in on it concur that Lassiter was far and away the best at 9-ball.

Samy
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While I agree with your pick of Luther Lassiter at the top, may I share with you that Johhny Archer once ran 17 consecutive racks playing against Bustamante for an $8,000.00 stakehorse match. Bustamante's backer is a Las Vegas Casino owner. I am uncertain of Archer's backer? After Johhny completed his incredible run of 17 racks to win the match 17 - 0, Bustamante asked him if he wanted to play another match for $16,000.00. I do not know the outcome or whether Johnny accepted Bustamante's challenge? If anyone can validate this story and provide the ending, I for one would like to know and would appreciate it.

Cross Side Larry
 
For 9-ball it's easily Earl. His US Open and World Championship track record speak for itself.
 
Celtic said:
You argue against Earl because for all the skills (and I do believe he is the most naturally gifted pool player I have ever laid my eyes on) he has a crap mental game. His sky high skills mask a VERY weak mental game. Sigel was almost the opposite. Sure he has skills, but a far cry from Strickalnds level. Where Sigel more then made up the difference was in his mental game, he is simply a killer when the chips are on the table and knows how to bare down and win like noone I have witnessed.

Take Strickland's physical skills and talent, merge that with Sigel's metal prowess and drive/ability to win, and you dont have a great pool player, you would have THE god of billiards and every tournament all the other guys would be playing for second.
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Ya I agree that earl is an expert at sharking himself from time to time.Having said that
you don't win over ten MAJOR tournaments and countless other events possessing weak mental skills. JMO, RJ
 
bobson_215 said:
Yes, I too think earl strickland is the best nine ball player in the planet. But everytime I think he's the best because of his power, his duels with efren reyes(Color of Money I and II) makes his credentials as being the best go down. But still, theoretically, in a forum's perspective, he's the best in the world. I'll add francisco bustamante to the list also by the way.
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I've got "The Color of Money" complete match that Efren won 120-117. Yes he won that match, however, winning 120-117 isn't exactly kicking someones ass.That thing was God-awful close.One match(this freakin close) doesn't decide who'sthe best.

Efren has been quoted as saying there was only one player that he ever feared and that player was respectfully Earl Strickland.Furthermore Buddy Hall has said" When Earls on his game, no-one can touch him."
RJ
 
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recoveryjones said:
I've got "The Color of Money" complete match that Efren won 120-117. Yes he won that match, however, winning 120-117 isn't exactly kicking someones ass.That thing was God-awful close.One match(this freakin close) doesn't decide who'sthe best.

Efren has been quoted as saying there was only one player that he ever feared and that player was respectfully Earl Strickland.Furthermore Buddy Hall has said" When Earls on his game, no-one can touch him."
RJ
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the top pros have respect for each other and these quotes support the idea that when Earl is on his game, he is hard to beat. About the Color of Money Match, Earl stumbled in the end. That match was not about kicking someone's ass but the point of the match was Earl had such an almost insurmountable lead yet Reyes still won.
 
CrossSideLarry said:
While I agree with your pick of Luther Lassiter at the top, may I share with you that Johhny Archer once ran 17 consecutive racks playing against Bustamante for an $8,000.00 stakehorse match. Bustamante's backer is a Las Vegas Casino owner. I am uncertain of Archer's backer? After Johhny completed his incredible run of 17 racks to win the match 17 - 0, Bustamante asked him if he wanted to play another match for $16,000.00. I do not know the outcome or whether Johnny accepted Bustamante's challenge? If anyone can validate this story and provide the ending, I for one would like to know and would appreciate it.

Cross Side Larry
Click to expand...

I think you heard an exaggerated version of the story. I have heard it many times but it was always 13 or 14 racks-never 17.
 
Snapshot9 said:
On 9 ball, the candidates would be Earl, Sigel, Lassiter, Archer, Buddy, Reyes, IMO. I can not decide on just one, they all have had their runs.
tournament: Sigel, Archer, Buddy
(People seem to forget that Buddy Hall was rated in top 5 players over
20 years in a row.)
all around: Efren, without a doubt
One Pocket: Efren
Straight Pool: Mosconi, then Greenleaf for me
(Mosconi has always been one of my idols... can't rate him 2nd, are you
crazy ... lol)
Best Bank: Eddie Taylor
Best Bar Box: Keith has time in rank, but David Matlock is pretty close.
(By the way, Buddy Hall was helll on wheels on a bar box too)
Best 8 ball: Undecided, Efren or Sigel, fuzzy on that one
Best rotation: Efren, would anyone even challenge him?
Click to expand...


In case nobody heard about it, somebody beat Keith in his own game, barbox game.

The dude that beat him?.... Edwin Montal in Reno 2 or 3 years ago.

Keith challenged Edwin to a match, Edwin got to the hill first, Keith caught up and promptly challenged him to double the bet and start a new set. Edwin said yes and Keith never knew what hit him. Edwin switched gears and Keith just couldn't keep up.

Color of Money controversy: Efren could have won it on the second day easily but was held back.

And now you know........ See yah!!!
 
What do You mean held back?

A little delayed but just wandering..?
 
For my money, heres the list...

Tournament players....
1. Earl Strickland
2. Mike Sigel
3. Efren Reyes
4. Johnny Archer
Money Players.....
1. Buddy Hall
2. Wimpy Lassiter
3. Bud Hypes

Chuck
 
TheOne said:
IMO you have to look at the majors to rank somebody the greatest and given that Earl certainly stands out. However you also have to take into account Efren because he beat Earl for top dollars over a huge race when they where both in their prime. Also Efren has won the WPC and also I find his 4 US Open finals in a row and also his DCC results astonishing. SO not much to choose from between them both.

I think also it won't be long before we might be saying that young Alex is THE greatest ever. US Open AND WPC Winner and Runner UP in the last few years is an amazing acheivmet, not to mention all his other tounry wins.

As for the old timers I don't really know much about them so can't say.
Click to expand...

I watched the entire Earl/Efren Hong Kong Challenge match (on CD) and I am a big fan of both Efren and Earl (well, his game at least). It was a race to 120. Personally, I think it's the best match and the best 9 ball I've ever been played. However, Earl had a distinct edge for most of the match. His offensive firepower was something to behold. Efren's smarts kept him in the match. I think Earl is better at 9ball than Efren, but Efren is better at long, grueling matches and strategy. Toward the end, after days of play, Earl just made a few mistakes and Efren became god-like. There is no other way to describe it.

Efren has tons and tons of heart - that's why he won.

Chris
 
In their prime, my list, in this order:

Earl
Johnny Archer
Efren
Mike Sigel
Jimmy Rempe (yes, Jim Rempe!)

Honorable mention: Buddy Hall.

These are the top echelon champions who are a cut above all the rest and dominated the game in their primes.

After this royalty, pick a name any name, but these guys were dominant front runner favorites to win any tournament they entered in their prime.

I don't think that the old pool players would have had any chance at all against these guys, no more than any of the athletes in the 1940's could compete with today's professionals.

Chris
 
1. Luther
2. Buddy Hall
3. Strickland 11 US Opens and World Championships
4. Worst/Don Willis never even seen a tape of these guys but heard stories...
5. Varner (won 11 out of 22 pro events in 89)
6. Sigel
7. Archer (ran 11 or 13, not 17 racks. Bet was only 2500-5000)
8. Efren
9. Parica - needs more major wins but for $$ was as good as anyone

10. Another guy I've only heard stories about "Big Train" Stevens. Supposed to play unbelievable when he got his mixture right. Would stay up for weeks and turn into a sloppy mess but if the stories are true, he just didn't miss ANYTHING when he was on a good roll.
 
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