Why and How to Prevent ELBOW DROP During Your Stroke
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
I‘m glad you liked them. You're welcome.
A stroking machine can be very simple. Grip diameter sliding segment on an aim and set stand. No bandages or intubation.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Kim Davenport had the best ’text book stance’ there was. I one were writing an instructional book on pool Kim Davenport would and should have been the one pictured for proper stance.
Sorry Dr Dave, I disagree with this one completely. I think for decades instructors have been using "elbow drop" as a magic pill. Every pro moves their elbow, but instructors try to "fix that" on amateurs? Come on.
You say in your video the pros that do drop their elbow are good because they have years of practice. I think you make that up. A pro is good because they have the pool gene, plus they played non-stop for a few years when young. There is no way to prove that McCready would have been better if he had a more orthodox stroke. Or I would be worse if I had McCready's stroke.
You give the example of Fedor with the "J" stroke. Even your stop motion frame shows his elbow moves up and down, and does not follow your voiceover claiming its still.
I couldn't get past 2 minutes of this video because I couldn't believe the entire premise of it, and then the first 2 minutes are filled with bs. This whole topic is akin to players should stay on the center axis of the CB, when there is not a pro alive that is not all over the CB on nearly every single shot.
Sorry for being harsh, I like you, but I think this entire topic is made up bs. A still elbow is the most unnatural thing in pool. Its only natural on very slow shots, and even on those shots the elbow moves up and down a bit. Its like watching the women of the 90's play pool. They mostly had the still (or more still) elbow. You could tell just by looking at them it was unnatural. Today's women players move their arms like the men do. Take Siming, her stroke looks like every other male pro's, because she drops her elbow a mile! And its natural!!!!
Yikes, horrible, horrible, horrible recommendation to keep the elbow still!!!!
That's how I really feel
You say in your video the pros that do drop their elbow are good because they have years of practice. I think you make that up. A pro is good because they have the pool gene, plus they played non-stop for a few years when young. There is no way to prove that McCready would have been better if he had a more orthodox stroke. Or I would be worse if I had McCready's stroke.
You give the example of Fedor with the "J" stroke. Even your stop motion frame shows his elbow moves up and down, and does not follow your voiceover claiming its still.
I couldn't get past 2 minutes of this video because I couldn't believe the entire premise of it, and then the first 2 minutes are filled with bs. This whole topic is akin to players should stay on the center axis of the CB, when there is not a pro alive that is not all over the CB on nearly every single shot.
Sorry for being harsh, I like you, but I think this entire topic is made up bs. A still elbow is the most unnatural thing in pool. Its only natural on very slow shots, and even on those shots the elbow moves up and down a bit. Its like watching the women of the 90's play pool. They mostly had the still (or more still) elbow. You could tell just by looking at them it was unnatural. Today's women players move their arms like the men do. Take Siming, her stroke looks like every other male pro's, because she drops her elbow a mile! And its natural!!!!
Yikes, horrible, horrible, horrible recommendation to keep the elbow still!!!!
That's how I really feel
I personally think there is too much emphasis on "textbook" stance. I instead prefer to help individuals find their "personal best" stance per this video:
Sorry Dr Dave, I disagree with this one completely. I think for decades instructors have been using "elbow drop" as a magic pill. Every pro moves their elbow, but instructors try to "fix that" on amateurs? Come on.
You say in your video the pros that do drop their elbow are good because they have years of practice. I think you make that up. A pro is good because they have the pool gene, plus they played non-stop for a few years when young. There is no way to prove that McCready would have been better if he had a more orthodox stroke. Or I would be worse if I had McCready's stroke.
You give the example of Fedor with the "J" stroke. Even your stop motion frame shows his elbow moves up and down, and does not follow your voiceover claiming its still.
I couldn't get past 2 minutes of this video because I couldn't believe the entire premise of it, and then the first 2 minutes are filled with bs. This whole topic is akin to players should stay on the center axis of the CB, when there is not a pro alive that is not all over the CB on nearly every single shot.
Sorry for being harsh, I like you, but I think this entire topic is made up bs. A still elbow is the most unnatural thing in pool. Its only natural on very slow shots, and even on those shots the elbow moves up and down a bit. Its like watching the women of the 90's play pool. They mostly had the still (or more still) elbow. You could tell just by looking at them it was unnatural. Today's women players move their arms like the men do. Take Siming, her stroke looks like every other male pro's, because she drops her elbow a mile! And its natural!!!!
Yikes, horrible, horrible, horrible recommendation to keep the elbow still!!!!
That's how I really feel
Thank you for your "honest" opinions. This is more like I expected when I posted this video. I am honestly shocked that I haven't seen more posts like this on YouTube or Facebook, but yours is the first "differing opinion" I've seen. Obviously, I don't agree with your sentiments, except for the center-ball stuff ... that is a bunch of BS. I also agree that dropping the elbow is "natural." If is "unfortunate" you didn't watch the entire video because I justify and expand on many of the claims later in the video.
Your definition of "fixed elbow" might be more strict than what Dave or guys like Mark Wilson think. I shared a video of my stroke with Mark and I thought he was going to say my elbow was dropping, but he said it looked good. A little bit of movement is not the end of the world. Having said that, I find that my best shooting is with the elbow fixed as much as possible. Of course, you need the other things like a loose arm, etc to be successful.Sorry Dr Dave, I disagree with this one completely. I think for decades instructors have been using "elbow drop" as a magic pill. Every pro moves their elbow, but instructors try to "fix that" on amateurs? Come on.
You say in your video the pros that do drop their elbow are good because they have years of practice. I think you make that up. A pro is good because they have the pool gene, plus they played non-stop for a few years when young. There is no way to prove that McCready would have been better if he had a more orthodox stroke. Or I would be worse if I had McCready's stroke.
You give the example of Fedor with the "J" stroke. Even your stop motion frame shows his elbow moves up and down, and does not follow your voiceover claiming its still.
I couldn't get past 2 minutes of this video because I couldn't believe the entire premise of it, and then the first 2 minutes are filled with bs. This whole topic is akin to players should stay on the center axis of the CB, when there is not a pro alive that is not all over the CB on nearly every single shot.
Sorry for being harsh, I like you, but I think this entire topic is made up bs. A still elbow is the most unnatural thing in pool. Its only natural on very slow shots, and even on those shots the elbow moves up and down a bit. Its like watching the women of the 90's play pool. They mostly had the still (or more still) elbow. You could tell just by looking at them it was unnatural. Today's women players move their arms like the men do. Take Siming, her stroke looks like every other male pro's, because she drops her elbow a mile! And its natural!!!!
Yikes, horrible, horrible, horrible recommendation to keep the elbow still!!!!
That's how I really feel
The results are on the table. I used to completely drop or collapse my elbow on every shot and after years of play I pocketed balls well. However, I got better when I learned the fixed elbow. YMMV.
Another great video, Dave!
I wanted to share something I found very useful in my own transition from dropped elbow to fixed elbow. I believe that my long held notion of what a stroke should be was hindering my ability to fix the elbow. More specifically, we are all told to have a nice smooth stroke and a long follow through. This long follow through notion encourages elbow drop. When I realized that everything is more compact with a fixed elbow I started to groove the fixed elbow more successfully. It certainly is not a natural feeling motion. This might sound heretical, but I think it is more helpful to think of the stroke as more of a poke or stab in order to get your head out of the "long, smooth follow through" thinking that encourages the elbow drop. Don't shoot me! The motion should not be a poke or stab in reality, but something about that concept helped change my expectation of what a stroke should be and, I think, allowed me to groove the more compact fixed elbow motion. Of course, everything can still be done smoothly and deliberately as a good stroke should.
Just a thought.
I’m not going to be critical of this video or Dr Dave.
My personal opinion is elbow drop is a great topic/tool for pool instructors to use with beginners and people just starting out. My guess is it makes teaching pool easier and gives the instructor a faster path to help their students play better faster during the very early stages of learning to play pool D to C- player levels. Which is cool. Students learn faster, teachers have a easy to understand concept to teach. And a simple concept to learn. Which ain’t bad.
However grab a solid B player and try teaching them to stop dropping their elbow(if they do) and it’s a counter productive teaching idea. Which might be bad.
Forget teaching this topic to a A player who has developed their stroke.
Stance, set-up, line up can be worked on with higher level players.
I just feel this part(elbow drop) is not the best lesson plan for a established player in most cases. Sure we can all improve and our games evolve as we play and improve. I just thing ED is a early lesson in a pool players career. Not the ED you need Viagra for
It’s not a one size fits all lesson in pool. Not many things are. But especially Elbow drop.
In snooker my opinion is different. But that’s another topic.
Best
Fatboy <———elbow dropper
My personal opinion is elbow drop is a great topic/tool for pool instructors to use with beginners and people just starting out. My guess is it makes teaching pool easier and gives the instructor a faster path to help their students play better faster during the very early stages of learning to play pool D to C- player levels. Which is cool. Students learn faster, teachers have a easy to understand concept to teach. And a simple concept to learn. Which ain’t bad.
However grab a solid B player and try teaching them to stop dropping their elbow(if they do) and it’s a counter productive teaching idea. Which might be bad.
Forget teaching this topic to a A player who has developed their stroke.
Stance, set-up, line up can be worked on with higher level players.
I just feel this part(elbow drop) is not the best lesson plan for a established player in most cases. Sure we can all improve and our games evolve as we play and improve. I just thing ED is a early lesson in a pool players career. Not the ED you need Viagra for
It’s not a one size fits all lesson in pool. Not many things are. But especially Elbow drop.
In snooker my opinion is different. But that’s another topic.
Best
Fatboy <———elbow dropper
Last edited:
GolfProPoolAmateur
Member
When you know what you’re looking at, it’s pretty easy to understand why.
Mike’s stroke was something else. I really like him, dads a cool guy as well.
If I walked into a pool room and didn’t know who he was, I’d go flat broke playing him. You couldn’t convince me I couldn’t beat a guy with a stroke that looked like his. Of course he could rob me easily and that’s exactly what would happen until I went flat.
Lucky for me I never came across him and we have never played. He’s one hell of a player and undercover with that stroke.
I have the opposite problem, I look like I play better than I do.
Last I heard Mike is doing well.
Best
Fatboy
Agreed. I consider the elbow "bobbing" up and down a little during the stroke or dropping a small amount after the hit "elbow drop." To me, "elbow drop" is large motion created by moving the shoulder joint to exaggerate the follow through.
That is my experience as well.
Thanks! I knew not everybody would like this one, but I stand behind it and it certainly applies to my personal experiences.
To me, "elbow droppers" have an "exaggerated" follow through. The CB is long gone, so all there "theatrics" are not required. However, an "appropriate follow through" is very important because it is an "indicator" of a good stroke into the ball, with smooth acceleration and a complete stroke (with a non-decelerating "finish"). For more info, see stroke acceleration and follow through.
I’m not going to be critical of this video or Dr Dave.
My personal opinion is elbow drop is a great topic/tool for pool instructors to use with beginners and people just starting out. My guess is it makes teaching pool easier and gives the instructor a faster path to help their students play better faster during the very early stages of learning to play pool D to C- player levels. Which is cool. Students learn faster, teachers have a easy to understand concept to teach. And a simple concept to learn. Which ain’t bad.
However grab a solid B player and try teaching them to stop dropping their elbow(if they do) and it’s a counter productive teaching idea. Which might be bad.
Forget teaching this topic to a A player who has developed their stroke.
Stance, set-up, line up can be worked on with higher level players.
I just feel this part(elbow drop) is not the best lesson plan for a established player in most cases. Sure we can all improve and our games evolve as we play and improve. I just thing ED is a early lesson in a pool players career. Not the ED you need Viagra for
It’s not a one size fits all lesson in pool. Not many things are. But especially Elbow drop.
In snooker my opinion is different. But that’s another topic.
Best
Fatboy <———elbow dropper
Well stated. I would never tell a player (at any level) to stop dropping their elbow if they drop it straight with consistent timing, and if it doesn't cause problems with stroke or tip-contact-point accuracy and repeatability. But if I see elbow drop causing problems (for a player at any level), I am going to suggest they try to keep the elbow more still.
Any technique can be mastered with enough talent, hard work, repetition, and consistency.
Which most often occurs with less experienced players from my experience and observation. I sure would have loved to have proper coaching and help learning when I started hitting balls in 1980ish
Today's youth have no excuse to not be amazing at everything, with how much great instructional content is freely available online dealing with anything you might want to do (including billiards).
Although, that is a lot of pressure.
