Why are phillipino's the best poolplayers in the world?

8ballEinstein said:
Realize that well into the 70's pool was almost exclusively an American game. Pool tables found in other countries were located mostly in American military bases. It's no wonder the top players were Americans.

As far as the Phillipines go, they didn't have a ton of great players before Efren Reyes (none that I know of anyway). This was likely because under president Ferdinand Marcos there was hardly any pool/billiard halls in the country - just one in Manila according to John Grissim, author of Billiards, Hustlers and Heroes, Legends and Lies and the Search for Higher Truth on the Green Felt.
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I've never heard this. I mean, the Philippines was a U.S. Territory in the 40's. They had pool tables. This is the biggest reason why the Philippines had a big jump on other 3rd world countries as being a pool power house: they had pool tables due to the American influence. If it wasn't pool, it would have been something else that they would latch onto in reference to the OP's post.

My father and uncles played pool here and there, so they musn't have been uncommon. I don't see how it follows that Ferdinand Marcos would somehow ban or be the reason for the removal of pool and pool tables. Even though he was a dictator, he still liked fun.

Maybe Grissim had trouble finding one when he was there, similar to when it was tough finding one here in 1982.

And there were a bunch of good players from the Philippines before Efren. Jose' was just the first that America ever witnessed playing. Jose' obviously had to learn somewhere.

Fred
 
I agree that u constantly see them playing each other and helping one another out. I think they all want to help each other improve and get to the top of their game while over here its way to competitive. Have to disagree on one thing though. I honestly think Corey Deuel has all the ability in the world to be the best player on the planet. If he could get his mind and focus completely on pool i think everyone would see him take control of the pool world.
 
thefifteen said:
Pool is a living and a very good one for hundreds, possibly thousands of players in the Philippines. The standard wage here is between 250 and 350 pesos a day in the more developed cities. That equates to probably $5-7.

There are action games in every pool hall every night for generally 500-1000 dollars. The players normally have a sponsor and receive between 20 and 30% if they win.

Many grade b players make 20 times the average wage just playing pool. In the UK and US only the very top players can make a full time living, and even then in a good year minus expenses they might make twice average income.

Pool players here are relatively very rich.
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Many good posts on this thread, but this one is particularly appropriate. This is a vastly overpopulated country (over 90 mil), with a huge unemployment rate (probably close to 25-30%). People work doing anything to make a few dollars a day. A good job pays 1$ an hour, and a worker in a typical fast food outlet or small store works a 10-11 hour shift six days a week. To get one of these jobs is highly competitive and you are easily replaced if you show up late for work ONCE!

To work in a bank or department store or other high level employ, you need a college degree. Then you could earn as much as $2 and hour for a ten hour shift. Every worker regardless of position is expected to be wearing a clean and neat uniform at all times. And you must remain focused on your job, which is taking care of customers. Always in a friendly and cordial manner I might add. I don't care what store or shop you enter, you will be greeted IMMEDIATELY by a smiling face or two or three, and asked "Can I help you sir?"

Contrast the above with being a professional pool player in the Philippines. Pool over here is definitely major league, with all tournaments reported alongside other major sports news in all the daily papers. The pool champions (like Efren and Alex and Ronnie) are national sports figures here, and everyone knows who they are, from the store clerks to the cab drivers. Remember the pay scale now, where the average annual wage may be $2,500-3,000 a year and an excellent job pays 5K a year. A pool player goes abroad and wins a major tournament and comes home with say $40,000. That's nearly two million pesos or 8-15 years the annual salary.

Who wouldn't want to be a pool player over here? To be a successful pool player is like a young kid becoming a successful pro golfer or tennis player in the USA. That's why there are literally tens of thousands of young kids in all the provinces practicing pool ALL day long! It's a way out of wrenching poverty. And one of the few avenues for an uneducated kid to make it big over here. Similar to what we see with all the kids in the black ghettos who practice basketball with the big dream of making it as a pro.

And like someone else said, if you have so many trying to excel and pushing each other, it is no wonder that a few great ones will emerge. Yes, there are many great players coming out of Taiwan. They are disciplined and hard working. But they will never match the hunger and fervor of the filipinos.
 
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The gane of choice in the USA is 9-Ball. 9-Ball is like driving on a USA freeway. As long as you do 55 and you're on your lane, you're ok. But when someone slams on the brakes, you see a pile-up.

Rotation on the other hand is like driving in Manila. There are potholes, children and animals running across the streets, everyone beating the red light, and vehicles cutting your lane from both sides.

Having to perform a jaw-dropping shot is actually ordinary in rotation, with15 balls on the table to deal with. In 9-ball, as long as you're on the good side of a leave, you can run out. But the "freeway drivers" get stumped when a specialty shot is required. Many non-Filipinos would rather postpone the degree of difficulty, convert, and settle for the next long and thin cut shot leave. The Filipino will avoid the potholes and cut lanes to get to an acceptable leave. I think that an average rotation player will know twice the number of shot applications that an average 9-ball player knows. Playing rotation is like going to an ivy league school of billiards.

Also, in rotation, spots are extremely adjustable that club B players can actually win money games even against Efren. Playing Efren in 9-Balls is like handing him over your money, no matter what the spot is. This "challenge-anyone" factor in rotation makes the learning curve easier for an ambitious Filipino player. It makes him tougher too.

Next week, there will be a one on one Efren vs Alcano... the King and the Prince of rotation, televised and I think it will have live streaming in their sponsor's website. You will see how much harder the game is and for sure, you will see fantastic shots.
 
Cornerman said:
I've never heard this. I mean, the Philippines was a U.S. Territory in the 40's. They had pool tables. This is the biggest reason why the Philippines had a big jump on other 3rd world countries as being a pool power house: they had pool tables due to the American influence. If it wasn't pool, it would have been something else that they would latch onto in reference to the OP's post.

My father and uncles played pool here and there, so they musn't have been uncommon. I don't see how it follows that Ferdinand Marcos would somehow ban or be the reason for the removal of pool and pool tables. Even though he was a dictator, he still liked fun.

Maybe Grissim had trouble finding one when he was there, similar to when it was tough finding one here in 1982.

And there were a bunch of good players from the Philippines before Efren. Jose' was just the first that America ever witnessed playing. Jose' obviously had to learn somewhere.

Fred
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Here's what Grissim wrote in his book -

A few weeks after visiting Borneo I went to the Phillipines for a brief stay, spending most of time in and around Manila. The temperatures and humidity were brutal but not enough to discourage me from spending a sweaty afternoon crusing Rizal Avenue in the seedier section of downtown Manila looking for a large poolroom. This turned out to be no easy task since President Marcos had closed down all but one or two of the big rooms after he established martial law in 1972.

I finally found one, the Manila Billiard Center, by the simple expedient of looking for open second story windows and flourescent ceiling lights and listening for the unmistakable crack of the break shot ...
 
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stroke is impt

taiwanese hav similar strokes
americans not so similar, comin from different states
filipinos quite similar
europeans similar stroke, germans, british, dutch
somehow feel tat svb has most effective stroke
 
sputnik said:
The gane of choice in the USA is 9-Ball. 9-Ball is like driving on a USA freeway. As long as you do 55 and you're on your lane, you're ok. But when someone slams on the brakes, you see a pile-up.

Rotation on the other hand is like driving in Manila. There are potholes, children and animals running across the streets, everyone beating the red light, and vehicles cutting your lane from both sides.

Having to perform a jaw-dropping shot is actually ordinary in rotation, with15 balls on the table to deal with. In 9-ball, as long as you're on the good side of a leave, you can run out. But the "freeway drivers" get stumped when a specialty shot is required. Many non-Filipinos would rather postpone the degree of difficulty, convert, and settle for the next long and thin cut shot leave. The Filipino will avoid the potholes and cut lanes to get to an acceptable leave. I think that an average rotation player will know twice the number of shot applications that an average 9-ball player knows. Playing rotation is like going to an ivy league school of billiards.

Also, in rotation, spots are extremely adjustable that club B players can actually win money games even against Efren. Playing Efren in 9-Balls is like handing him over your money, no matter what the spot is. This "challenge-anyone" factor in rotation makes the learning curve easier for an ambitious Filipino player. It makes him tougher too.

Next week, there will be a one on one Efren vs Alcano... the King and the Prince of rotation, televised and I think it will have live streaming in their sponsor's website. You will see how much harder the game is and for sure, you will see fantastic shots.
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A lot of great replies in this thread, but especially this and Jay Helfert's post hit the nail.

I am really looking forward for the Efren vs Alcano match
 
Pool Players in the Phillipines are like NASCAR Drives in the USA, or other Major League Sports Stars. They are the people idles. Pool must be very big there, and I think a large percentage of the popularion is playing pool. also it seem from what Jay H. Writes it is also backed by man compainies in the Phillipines. He in the USA we got NFL, Hockey, MLB, NASCAR, NBA, WWWE, and none of there sports are in the islands. So maybe that is why there are so many great plyers there.
 
We Call Them Tirador "Slingshot"

One thing also Filipinos trained so hard...we can survived in a long game situation..early morning til midnight playing money games,or even an empty stomach without sleeping ..pool halls are also everywhere...lots of kids,students dont even go to school or skip classes just to play pool..standbys gamblers are everywhere looking for money just to feed their families...playing pool here in Philippines sometimes even end up in a homicide...mostly our PROS have different dilemmas in their life and it sad to knows how they manage their struggles...That's why their very humble at their best.
 
Jayson said:
I agree that u constantly see them playing each other and helping one another out. I think they all want to help each other improve and get to the top of their game while over here its way to competitive. Have to disagree on one thing though. I honestly think Corey Deuel has all the ability in the world to be the best player on the planet. If he could get his mind and focus completely on pool i think everyone would see him take control of the pool world.
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I've always thought the same thing about Corey, When he had that dominant year in 2001 I thought he'd be the next Earl winning lot's of majors. He could still do it if he gets serious again.
 
In the Phillippines humidity makes the game more difficult. It requires a better stroke to move the cue ball, and better accuracy to pocket balls.

This helps them develope better abilties from the start.
 
It is very simple the best are the people who want the most and put in the table time. That is what I love about this sport you do not have to be 7 foot tall or be the fastest runner you just need to l have the desire and put the time in on the table and have the mental toughness.
 
they have hunger and desire to make a better life for themselves,

but i think the english are the best players the more that take up the game there when it gets more serious you will see many of them becoming world class players especially with snooker on the decline watch out the english are coming.
 
lee brett said:
they have hunger and desire to make a better life for themselves,

but i think the english are the best players the more that take up the game there when it gets more serious you will see many of them becoming world class players especially with snooker on the decline watch out the english are coming.
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Being the best is a result of environment, desire and opportunity. What on earth makes you believe that these factors can produce better players from UK than anywhere else?

Or are there some variables british guys are born with, that makes the difference? If yes, please let us know:D
 
lee brett said:
they have hunger and desire to make a better life for themselves,

but i think the english are the best players the more that take up the game there when it gets more serious you will see many of them becoming world class players especially with snooker on the decline watch out the english are coming.
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They've already arrived; Appleton, Boyes, Peach, Hundal, Hill, etc.
 
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sputnik said:
The gane of choice in the USA is 9-Ball. 9-Ball is like driving on a USA freeway. As long as you do 55 and you're on your lane, you're ok. But when someone slams on the brakes, you see a pile-up.

Rotation on the other hand is like driving in Manila. There are potholes, children and animals running across the streets, everyone beating the red light, and vehicles cutting your lane from both sides.

Having to perform a jaw-dropping shot is actually ordinary in rotation, with15 balls on the table to deal with. In 9-ball, as long as you're on the good side of a leave, you can run out. But the "freeway drivers" get stumped when a specialty shot is required. Many non-Filipinos would rather postpone the degree of difficulty, convert, and settle for the next long and thin cut shot leave. The Filipino will avoid the potholes and cut lanes to get to an acceptable leave. I think that an average rotation player will know twice the number of shot applications that an average 9-ball player knows. Playing rotation is like going to an ivy league school of billiards.

Also, in rotation, spots are extremely adjustable that club B players can actually win money games even against Efren. Playing Efren in 9-Balls is like handing him over your money, no matter what the spot is. This "challenge-anyone" factor in rotation makes the learning curve easier for an ambitious Filipino player. It makes him tougher too.

Next week, there will be a one on one Efren vs Alcano... the King and the Prince of rotation, televised and I think it will have live streaming in their sponsor's website. You will see how much harder the game is and for sure, you will see fantastic shots.
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I love this comparison. Every moment on the streets of Manila is an adventure and an escape. Playing safe is not an option.

Regret having to miss this match to return home on the 24th. I was asked to do the TV commentary and would have loved doing it. The Scotch Doubles on the 25th should be a doozy too, with Alex, Dennis, Warren and Gandy going at it. The filipino national television network (ABS-CBN) embraces pool and gives it excellent coverage. In a country of just over 90 million, they can expect to have 5 million+ viewers for matches featuring these top players. That's huge!
 
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