I wouldn't wish that pyramid scheme on my worst enemy
WHY are some cue makers so valuable and others (better in quality) NOT so valuable?
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
Yep and that sounds like something he would do. Sometimes things other than money are payment enough.
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JC
Coos Cues
No, Ponzi is just the most famous pyramid scheme, which is using new investor money to pay early investors so they think they are gettinga great return...and that isn't what went on with those cues. Selling snake oil selling works because you convince the buyers it works. Some are only convinced until you get out of town, some for life and could probably sell it themselves.You're thinking of a Ponzi scheme..................
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Very logical answer, but I was focused on the tiers of shills, it's more of a MLM than a traditional pyramid
You guys need to get your scams straight.
A ponzi is when you use the first investors $ to pay off the next investors $-in its simplest form. I’m keeping this simple.
A MLM is when you build a down line selling products/services/memberships then the 2nd customer then the 2nd customer sells the same concept to the 3rd customer then the 3rd to the 4th and so on to create a “down line or customer tree” it can go 50 customers out and by it’s nature go wide because some points will have multiple customers. So the name pyramid is attached to this form of marketing. It’s loosely called referral marketing too.
These are 2 completely different types of trade practices. A ponzi is 99% of the time illegal where as a MLM can be operated legally in some cases. They are NOT related. Ponzi is a pure crime 99.9% of the time.
I have never engaged in either of these types of businesses or scams. Then why do I know about them. I’m a marketer and you have to know what’s legal and illegal. I’ve never been in trouble. I’m a expert in this stuff.
Best
Fatboy
A ponzi is when you use the first investors $ to pay off the next investors $-in its simplest form. I’m keeping this simple.
A MLM is when you build a down line selling products/services/memberships then the 2nd customer then the 2nd customer sells the same concept to the 3rd customer then the 3rd to the 4th and so on to create a “down line or customer tree” it can go 50 customers out and by it’s nature go wide because some points will have multiple customers. So the name pyramid is attached to this form of marketing. It’s loosely called referral marketing too.
These are 2 completely different types of trade practices. A ponzi is 99% of the time illegal where as a MLM can be operated legally in some cases. They are NOT related. Ponzi is a pure crime 99.9% of the time.
I have never engaged in either of these types of businesses or scams. Then why do I know about them. I’m a marketer and you have to know what’s legal and illegal. I’ve never been in trouble. I’m a expert in this stuff.
Best
Fatboy
Exactly and if what they are referring to is what I think it is, this is no different than many producers of goods does world wide. Some things can’t be controlled.
The us government subsidizes farming to maintain control of the market. DeBeers does this in high fashion with diamonds which are by no means rare and have no good reason for their immense “value” which is nothing but inflation.
I’d rather see a craftsman have their book slammed full and have the cry babies bitch about the price and wait time (they ain’t buying anyways) than the craftsman being fucking broke and a bunch of shit heads proclaiming how good yet economically priced they are….like they at Walmart
. Sam Maloof rockers come to mind
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Walmart does not produce goods, they are part of the supply distribution chain of already fabricated goods to consumers.
producers of goods are entitled to a normal profit. As are distributors.
as far as “market manipulation” goes like the Oppenheimer family does with diamonds. That’s the right as they own the land and can release and price their commodity anyway they see fit. There are many trade laws to stifle this behavior but they are acting within the law.
Biggest scam? Oil prices.
schools out
Best
Fatboy
producers of goods are entitled to a normal profit. As are distributors.
as far as “market manipulation” goes like the Oppenheimer family does with diamonds. That’s the right as they own the land and can release and price their commodity anyway they see fit. There are many trade laws to stifle this behavior but they are acting within the law.
Biggest scam? Oil prices.
schools out
Best
Fatboy
Nah big oils got nothing pound for pound on 30$ chalk
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From your lips to Gods ears. How could I over look that!Nah big oils got nothing pound for pound on 30$ chalk
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Have a great weekend,
Fatboy
From your lips to Gods ears. How could I over look that!
Have a great weekend,
Fatboy
You too brother
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In the end, a pool cue is just a tool. Rarity/workmanship/artistic expression notwithstanding, like with guitars, a rare/fancy instrument that doesn’t sound/play good is little use to a musician. Some players stumble across an incredibly good one, and fall in love for life. Others never stop searching for that ‘holy grail’.
All true, but I ignored it because none of the 2 (3?) have an anything to do with the Jackpot thing.
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Yes, but the reasons for demand aren't always so basic. That's Prairie dog's point. What is the perceived value behind some of these cues?
I think a lot of people aren't simply looking for a good playing cue, but a certain aesthetic, perceived status of the cue maker, and maybe a sense of community (a particular cue maker might be popular in that area). Pros generally don't seem as into this, so I think it's more about recreational players who enjoy being a part of the pool world.
Demand (unless discussing required goods) is ultimately about consumer preference, which is unique. What do people want in a high end custom build and how much are they willing to pay for it? For some, it's to have a piece of billiards history. For others, it is the comfort and confidence of purchasing from prestige and lineage. Think of it as buying a purebred and having official documentation. And then for others, because it's maker has a type of feel for their cue's hit they prefer. All of these wildly affects demand in an already high priced and highly niche market.
For me personally, I'd say to not worry about it. If your preferred cue maker isn't as sought after, it just means they are more affordable and available to you. I heard the Southwest waiting list is pretty brutal and figured, if my personal demand of a Southwest cue was truly high enough, I would have one and if I ever do, I will have one. It's not like I can't afford the asking prices on the secondary market.
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It is the uniqueness of the item that adds to its appeal and that there is a limited supply of that specific brand.
But make no mistake, a carefully crafted, expertly executed cue build is not by accident or easily accomplished.
And the more precise the workmanship and final assembly, the better the outcome of the appearance and stroke.
Meticulous workmanship aside, the choice and selection of materials, as well as distribution of weight components
all constitute variables the cue maker must contemplate and make sure weight balance and consistency is achieved.
The last thing people want to consider is that the price reflects time, labor, materials, shop costs, overhead, administrative and production expenses, insurance, taxes, inventory costs, breakage during production, advertising, and markup. A exquisite custom cue involves many hours to create. Ask any widely heralded cue maker how long it takes to complete the cue. If you see the detailed progress photos on my last cue Bob Owen made for me, you’d appreciate how long it took to cut and inlay hundreds of Pau Lau Abalone in alternating dots and diamonds rings. And he had to discard almost as many as he used because the Pau Lau would crack and chip during cutting and placement. Plus the many hours of CNC programming he had to do for my design since it’s a one of a kind.
So what a man’s time worth……certainly as much as any wood craftsman would charge. And the materials expense
which is not insignificant. And how much profit should one derive on the final product. This isn’t an item you buy from
a 3rd party and flip. This is a one of a kind start to finish creation. $40/hr…..$50/hr…….$75/hr…….$100/hr……what is
the amount to charge. When you understand there is a difference in craftsman skills, you can understand why prices of
cues vary and often there is a long waiting list for new cue orders. So somebody is doing something right and buyers
appreciate the difference. What’s the wait for a new Southwest Cue? Hercek? Folks, we’re talking more than a decade.
But make no mistake, a carefully crafted, expertly executed cue build is not by accident or easily accomplished.
And the more precise the workmanship and final assembly, the better the outcome of the appearance and stroke.
Meticulous workmanship aside, the choice and selection of materials, as well as distribution of weight components
all constitute variables the cue maker must contemplate and make sure weight balance and consistency is achieved.
The last thing people want to consider is that the price reflects time, labor, materials, shop costs, overhead, administrative and production expenses, insurance, taxes, inventory costs, breakage during production, advertising, and markup. A exquisite custom cue involves many hours to create. Ask any widely heralded cue maker how long it takes to complete the cue. If you see the detailed progress photos on my last cue Bob Owen made for me, you’d appreciate how long it took to cut and inlay hundreds of Pau Lau Abalone in alternating dots and diamonds rings. And he had to discard almost as many as he used because the Pau Lau would crack and chip during cutting and placement. Plus the many hours of CNC programming he had to do for my design since it’s a one of a kind.
So what a man’s time worth……certainly as much as any wood craftsman would charge. And the materials expense
which is not insignificant. And how much profit should one derive on the final product. This isn’t an item you buy from
a 3rd party and flip. This is a one of a kind start to finish creation. $40/hr…..$50/hr…….$75/hr…….$100/hr……what is
the amount to charge. When you understand there is a difference in craftsman skills, you can understand why prices of
cues vary and often there is a long waiting list for new cue orders. So somebody is doing something right and buyers
appreciate the difference. What’s the wait for a new Southwest Cue? Hercek? Folks, we’re talking more than a decade.
middleofnowhere
Registered
Actually, you use the second investor to pay the first and so on. You are paying only dividends. The investors believe their original investment is still there and growing but it isn't. You are spending it.
You need new investors to keep coming in to maintain the fraud. It collapses when you run out of new investors and can't pay the dividends. Or your investors want to close their accounts at which time they discover it is all gone and there never were any investment's in the first place.
Walmart may not produce goods directly but they do work directly with a lot of manufacturers to produce a low end tier of products specifically to be sold through Walmart. If you see what you consider to be a premium brand there for a good price, there is a good chance it’s a reduced feature product specifically made to reach Walmart’s desired price point. Think TVs with only 2 HDMI ports instead of 4-5 so they can sell it for $10 less than Best Buy.
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Having lot of money is a burden, most people will never understand why.
Having been fortunate to meet several high profile People in their home for work.
Some their wealth made them asshats.