Why can't women play as good as men?
- Thread starter Harvywallbanger
- Start date
Something else
Something else I think you have to think about is this. A lot of the Men's tournaments don't allow women to play in them. Like the US Open.
We all know that if you play better talent, you can become better. So maybe one aspect is that the women aren't having the chance to play better players and increase their own game!
Just a thought.
Something else I think you have to think about is this. A lot of the Men's tournaments don't allow women to play in them. Like the US Open.
We all know that if you play better talent, you can become better. So maybe one aspect is that the women aren't having the chance to play better players and increase their own game!
Just a thought.
txplshrk said:
They have the chance to compete.
If there are a lot, please name more than one.
In every sport, regardless of whether you are a man or a woman, it takes a little something extra to get to the upper echelons on that sport. In sports like tennis, volleyball or basketball, being taller does convey certain advantages. In many sports, speed is a differentiating factor in being able to excel. In other sports like cycling, a higher cardiovascular capacity, stamina and endurance can make the difference.
In pool, except for the opening break, a lot of physical strength is not needed as much as in other sports. Pool games like Straight Pool and 8-ball can be considered to be more of a thinking man's game very much similar to playing chess. These games require a lot of tactics, planning and strategizing, and of course, execution.
Having a more powerful break in 8-ball can be a differentiating factor in getting to the upper echelons of the game. In the North American IPT, Reyes breaks-and-runs in about 20% of the total games he's played. Of the games that he's won, Reyes's B&R is 29%. Bustamante's B&R percentages are even higher, at 27% and 40%, respectively.
Sarah Ellerby, who made it further in this tournament than the other women, has B&R percentages that are much lower. Elllerby broke-and-ran in about 3.3% of the total games she's played. Of the games that she's won, Ellerby's B&R is 6.6%. (Many men, by the way, also posted similar percentages, so I'm not trying to single out Ellerby's performance in this tournament.)
Regardless of gender, having a superior rack-breaking ability appears to be a crucial component in getting to the upper levels of the game of 8-ball.
Breaking racks is just one aspect of playing 8-ball but it does set the tone for how the game is completed. After the rack is broken, it now comes down to superior tactical ability, strategizing and execution.
In pool, except for the opening break, a lot of physical strength is not needed as much as in other sports. Pool games like Straight Pool and 8-ball can be considered to be more of a thinking man's game very much similar to playing chess. These games require a lot of tactics, planning and strategizing, and of course, execution.
Having a more powerful break in 8-ball can be a differentiating factor in getting to the upper echelons of the game. In the North American IPT, Reyes breaks-and-runs in about 20% of the total games he's played. Of the games that he's won, Reyes's B&R is 29%. Bustamante's B&R percentages are even higher, at 27% and 40%, respectively.
Sarah Ellerby, who made it further in this tournament than the other women, has B&R percentages that are much lower. Elllerby broke-and-ran in about 3.3% of the total games she's played. Of the games that she's won, Ellerby's B&R is 6.6%. (Many men, by the way, also posted similar percentages, so I'm not trying to single out Ellerby's performance in this tournament.)
Regardless of gender, having a superior rack-breaking ability appears to be a crucial component in getting to the upper levels of the game of 8-ball.
Breaking racks is just one aspect of playing 8-ball but it does set the tone for how the game is completed. After the rack is broken, it now comes down to superior tactical ability, strategizing and execution.
In every sport, regardless of whether you are a man or a woman, it takes a little something extra to get to the upper echelons of that sport. In sports like tennis, volleyball or basketball, being taller does convey certain advantages. In many sports, speed is a differentiating factor in being able to excel. In other sports like cycling, a higher cardiovascular capacity, stamina and endurance can make the difference.
In pool, except for the opening break, a lot of physical strength is not needed as much as in other sports. Pool games like Straight Pool and 8-ball can be considered to be more of a thinking man's game very much similar to playing chess. These games require a lot of tactics, planning and strategizing, and of course, execution.
Having a more powerful break in 8-ball can be a differentiating factor in getting to the upper echelons of the game. In the North American IPT, Reyes breaks-and-runs in about 20% of the total games he's played. Of the games that he's won, Reyes's B&R is 29%. Bustamante's B&R percentages are even higher, at 27% and 40%, respectively.
Sarah Ellerby, who made it further in this tournament than the other women, has B&R percentages that are much lower. Elllerby broke-and-ran in about 3.3% of the total games she's played. Of the games that she's won, Ellerby's B&R is 6.6%. (Many men, by the way, also posted similar percentages, so I'm not trying to single out Ellerby's performance in this tournament.)
Regardless of gender, having a superior rack-breaking ability appears to be a crucial component in getting to the upper levels of the game of 8-ball.
Breaking racks is just one aspect of playing 8-ball but it does set the tone for how the game is completed. After the rack is broken, it now comes down to superior tactical ability, strategizing and execution.
In pool, except for the opening break, a lot of physical strength is not needed as much as in other sports. Pool games like Straight Pool and 8-ball can be considered to be more of a thinking man's game very much similar to playing chess. These games require a lot of tactics, planning and strategizing, and of course, execution.
Having a more powerful break in 8-ball can be a differentiating factor in getting to the upper echelons of the game. In the North American IPT, Reyes breaks-and-runs in about 20% of the total games he's played. Of the games that he's won, Reyes's B&R is 29%. Bustamante's B&R percentages are even higher, at 27% and 40%, respectively.
Sarah Ellerby, who made it further in this tournament than the other women, has B&R percentages that are much lower. Elllerby broke-and-ran in about 3.3% of the total games she's played. Of the games that she's won, Ellerby's B&R is 6.6%. (Many men, by the way, also posted similar percentages, so I'm not trying to single out Ellerby's performance in this tournament.)
Regardless of gender, having a superior rack-breaking ability appears to be a crucial component in getting to the upper levels of the game of 8-ball.
Breaking racks is just one aspect of playing 8-ball but it does set the tone for how the game is completed. After the rack is broken, it now comes down to superior tactical ability, strategizing and execution.
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The average man is better than the average woman in all sports.
The best man is better than the best woman in all sports.
I have my theories why, but I'm keeping them to myself.
Who gives a crap why anyway?
End of story.
The best man is better than the best woman in all sports.
I have my theories why, but I'm keeping them to myself.
Who gives a crap why anyway?
End of story.
it may well be hard to swallow but catscradle has hit the nail right on the head. i dont see how you can dispute that.
ledrums said:
I'm curious as to why some of you are getting a little bent out of shape for me even bringing this up? For some of you its like ignoring the big pink elephant in the middle of the room. You look more silly if you act like it isn't there. It's OK to say "Why in hell is this big pink elephant in your living room".
FACT: On average the men are playing better than the women.
Question: Why if its not a physical sport?
Some here believe that they will someday BUT why are they not NOW? I'm not one of those guys that think women are inferior to men and some of the good post on here don't believe that either. They are just answering the question with the best of there knowledge. The guy who presented the graph with all that testosterone stuff and color assembly skills and motor skills and more has made some very good points as to maybe why and you guys jump down his throat.
I for one am listeining to everyone and trying to figure this out.
For the question "Why are women NOT attracted to the game as much as men" is a good question. Are they born with something (such as low testosterone or something) that just doesn't give them that competing edge to want to pound someone in a silly game like us men do? So even if it is numbers as to why they don't play as well could it still fall back on what they are born with?
Harvywallbanger said:
I still think my answer is pretty significant, women were actively DISCOURAGED from playing pool up until about 40 years ago. The older generation of women have been told they're not welcome. The generation of women they raised think pretty much the same way. In a few more generations the stigma of women playing pool will be gone (forgotten), then one would expect much greater participation by women. This will be aided by the development of more women pool player roll models as the game becomes more common amongst women. As John said, it's a numbers game, and there are nowhere near as many women playing pool as men, because of the culture that developed. It's culture at play here, not genetics.
Dave
DaveK said:
Why can't I play like Efren? Why didn't I run a sub-4-minute mile or a 2:15 marathon? Why didn't I hit home runs like David Ortiz? Why can't I type (or keyboard in the mordern term) as fast as my female counterparts?
It must be cultural.
You may be right, but in my book there are potential genetic factors in pool, most notably hand/eye coordination and physical coordination in general. The jury is still out on whether or not the difference in male/female performance in the arena of pool is purely cultural. I doubt that in our lifetimes sufficient interest will be generated among the female population to answer this question.
DaveK said:
You could also even say that even today women are discouraged from playing sports at a young age. Young boys are always doing something that envolves eye/hand cordination and throughout childhood this skill improves. As a little girl they may not get that significant eye/hand cordination training because the parents or whomever these days are still envolving them in other activities that don't require it as much. If thats true than do men play better because our WHOLE life we have been training our eye with various bat and ball games while the women were playing with their doll babies and playing house? So even if a girl desides to play serious pool this would be her first real test for her eye/hand cordination(assuming she was raised like a girl) while us boys are envolved with this type of stuff all the time. I don't know. Just a thought.
unfortunately, i have not read all the posts here. but I wanted to add, i have recently been thinking about this subject and a couple of things came to mind.
first off, it is really no big mystery that men play better pool than women. there is an advantage to being stronger in pool, despite what some may think, and as in any sport (diving, football, soccer), this will turn out to be a huge advantage, especially when you are talking about top players when every little extra counts.
with that said, forget about pool for a second. lets talk about chess.... which i think is a great example for this particular argument because females are not physically limited in any way.
now, hopefully chess guys will chime in. but i happen to know that men dominate chess. there is like one girl and she's supposedly ok, but nothing like the top men.
anyway, i just think that settles this argument personally. it really is true, at this point in time men just play better in sports.
first off, it is really no big mystery that men play better pool than women. there is an advantage to being stronger in pool, despite what some may think, and as in any sport (diving, football, soccer), this will turn out to be a huge advantage, especially when you are talking about top players when every little extra counts.
with that said, forget about pool for a second. lets talk about chess.... which i think is a great example for this particular argument because females are not physically limited in any way.
now, hopefully chess guys will chime in. but i happen to know that men dominate chess. there is like one girl and she's supposedly ok, but nothing like the top men.
anyway, i just think that settles this argument personally. it really is true, at this point in time men just play better in sports.
gromulan said:
A regular tournament match, and that applies to Archer, Souquet, Morris or anyone else you favor.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
Cornerman said:
Um, I think Danny Basavich has breasts........and he plays good.
John
O
onepocketchump
Guest
catscradle said:
That's not true. The very best rock climber either is or was a woman during the last five years. I am sure there are other examples of where the best person alive playing or doing a particular physical activity is a woman. Additionally, many of you don't reallize that during World War II it was the women who took over the bulk of the heavy labor jobs in America. It was well documented that women not only could do the jobs but that they often did them better than the men who preceded them.
I give a crap - that's why I post. I don't subscribe to sexist and ignorant assumptions about gender roles and capabilities.
John
catscradle said:
I'm sorry Cats, I think I was answering the question "why aren't women attracted to pool", not commenting on relative levels of play.
Men are faster and stronger than women, using track and field records / average performances as the measurement. I'd like to know what the relative differences are in a sport like target shooting where eyesight, steady nerves and other influences are more significant than raw strength and speed. I do recall that when I was an electronics manufacturing engineer, studies into the optimization of production lines included performance numbers that suggested women were quicker at these tasks, an indication that their eye-hand coordination is possibly better than men (the numbers were developed by large scale sampling if I recall correctly). Regardless of all this, without similar participation numbers the comparison will always be skewed towards the greater numbers.
Dave
thanks harvey for the defense. I think people jump on other people because they think when a person says a man is better at____ or a woman is better at ___ this means one is better than the other. My posts merely state that there are differences and if anyone actually bothers to do some research on the matter and not just speculate, they will see there are differences. It's in a way somewhat ignorant to not see pure scientific data and then make a hypothesis. I see lots of people saying it's sexist to believe one is better than the other, it is, but it's not sexist to say women recognize color beter than men, or that men have denser muscle tissue. These are facts. If there was a sport that required arrangement of colors to fit a pattern then women would dominate. It also seems so many people are hung up on exceptions to rules. If we flipped things around and said "why is reyes better and all women" man that would get someone in trouble, but some don't seem to have problems saying "fisher can beat anyone in this forum" This is not even close to a fair comparison.
The only thing close to any real proof is that there are fewer women than men who play, which does have some validity but if you still took a sample of 20 women on the pro tour and 20 men on thier tour, you'd still see on the average men play slightly better... slightly. One poster said that women have better hand eye coordination, that is true, women excell in prcision tasks such as placing small peg shapes into respective holes than men do. For that reason there are jobs out there where women would excel in. However in target directing tasks (pool darts ) men excel, though only slightly. One poster said that women did most of the labor during WWII, that's true but then you have to ask, where were the men. All the able bodies were out fighting, so there you have a slight flaw in reasoning. As for them doing their jobs as good as any man, yeah they did, but they could have had jobs with skills that were just as good for men as women.
I'll state again that sport is a male construct that was designed to test men's skills against other men. Some theories like that of Socialist's views of sport state that because men create sports, women will not do well because it is designed to highlight mens talents and suppress women.
I am not a sexist in any way. I have degrees in sociology and psychology and have done many papers on sex differences mostly sociologically, and there are just so many differences in men and women that can't be accounted for sociologically. Evolutionary psychology has very promising theories on what make men and women different. I'm surprised no one has actually argued any of my examples and found research supporting otherwise. All I'm hearing so far is speculation and to some extent misplaced chivalry, but few here are actually using real evidence, research, etc. There's nothing wrong in educating the real sexists out there, but don't confuse that for genuine facts. Here's another fact, there are more male geniuses in history but there are also more male sociopaths: murderers, canabals, and other deviants.
The only thing close to any real proof is that there are fewer women than men who play, which does have some validity but if you still took a sample of 20 women on the pro tour and 20 men on thier tour, you'd still see on the average men play slightly better... slightly. One poster said that women have better hand eye coordination, that is true, women excell in prcision tasks such as placing small peg shapes into respective holes than men do. For that reason there are jobs out there where women would excel in. However in target directing tasks (pool darts ) men excel, though only slightly. One poster said that women did most of the labor during WWII, that's true but then you have to ask, where were the men. All the able bodies were out fighting, so there you have a slight flaw in reasoning. As for them doing their jobs as good as any man, yeah they did, but they could have had jobs with skills that were just as good for men as women.
I'll state again that sport is a male construct that was designed to test men's skills against other men. Some theories like that of Socialist's views of sport state that because men create sports, women will not do well because it is designed to highlight mens talents and suppress women.
I am not a sexist in any way. I have degrees in sociology and psychology and have done many papers on sex differences mostly sociologically, and there are just so many differences in men and women that can't be accounted for sociologically. Evolutionary psychology has very promising theories on what make men and women different. I'm surprised no one has actually argued any of my examples and found research supporting otherwise. All I'm hearing so far is speculation and to some extent misplaced chivalry, but few here are actually using real evidence, research, etc. There's nothing wrong in educating the real sexists out there, but don't confuse that for genuine facts. Here's another fact, there are more male geniuses in history but there are also more male sociopaths: murderers, canabals, and other deviants.