onepocketchump said:
I thought Chris sharma was considered to be the world's best rock climber.
But, of course, they dont rate rock climbers.
Women are generally considered better at manufacturing jobs requiring small nimble hands, not heavy labor.
Why can't women play as good as men?
- Thread starter Harvywallbanger
- Start date
I thought Chris sharma was considered to be the world's best rock climber.
But, of course, they dont rate rock climbers.
Women are generally considered better at manufacturing jobs requiring small nimble hands, not heavy labor.
PoolSharkAllen said:
You seem to be implying the break is holding women back. The stats you posted are good for your argument, but stats can be misleading and are open to interpretation.
Are you saying her chances of winning would be greatly increased if someone with a better break were allowed to do it for her? Who knows, with a wide open table every time, it might even shake her up to know when the game is over she won't be able to call upon her weak break as a reason for losing. And I'm not saying she used the excuse, but you did that for her.
Tell you what, let Efren break the balls for her - and let her break for Efren - I think it'll end up the same way. Just using Efren as an example. Let's even this thing out and quit the griping once and for all. People with weak breaks should be allowed to have a substitute break for them, just like they have the substitute runner in baseball.
Come to think of it, if the break is really all that important (not disputing), why not turn a weak break into a strength by playing some kind of safety on the break? Personally, I like the way some of the women break, the ones that don't try to imitate the men. I don't like the way a lot of guys turn the cue ball loose.
Tommy Joe
Tommy Joe said:
Preach it brotha!
AMEN!
CAn't we all just get along? I actually enjoy watching women sports. They seem so more organized than men. They seem to try very very hard and that is why they have my respect as a competitor to every sport. I have seen a teenaged girl throw a softball underhanded 95 mph. Get u some of that!!
onepocketchump said:
I'd hardly call rock climbing a competitive sport though it certainly is athletic, but that's beside the point.
My point is that regardless of why, men's athletic superiority in pool and elsewhere is readily apparent and can be documented. Time will prove the reason for this is either cultural or physiological. It doesn't really matter why.
My point is that this topic comes up over and over again, you make the same arguments and others make the same arguments and resolution is never reached. The reason concensus is never reached is because it is not reachable. It is equally ridiculous to say the difference in male/female performance is or is not attributable to genetic reasons.
It certainly could be as the difference between being x-y and x-x alone has a huge impact on how we develop. But there is also insufficient evidence to say that is the reason.
My personal belief is that there is a combined effect, cultural issues keep women from being a lot better than the are, but that there is also a physiological factor. I don't know if you ever raised children, but I did and I raised in a very politically correct time and location. When I first walked on sports fields with my children the difference where immediately apparent. The teams were mixed gender of more or less equal distribution, the boys were clearly athletically superior to the girls. Yeah, there were one off girls that were better, but the weren't better than the best boys. This is pre-school age I'm talking about, culture has not affected there abilities yet. From there the gap widened and that may be somewhat cultural, but not completely cultural.
John, I'm a pragmatist. Males are better in athletic things and will remain so throughout at least my life time, probably yours, and probalby my adult children's. I was in my 20's in the '60s when they said given the chance woman would be athletically equal, well it's been 40 years, 2 generations of chances and things have not changed that much. In other endeavors, namely intellectual, women have equaled and quite possibly surpassed men, but not in athletics.
JMHO. (but it's right of course)
onepocketchump said:
You are correct, my comments were out of line, a basic reaction to the all too many reponses I've seen into this and other arguments concerning male performance in sport vs that of women.
The general consensus seems to be that since there are less women than men in pool they will naturally produce less good players. I can understand that. But there will always be less women playing pool. Why is that? Because we're animals, John. Do you read me, ANIMALS!!!!
Most sports are subsitutes for the ancient arena. The ancient arena was itself a substitute for the rigors of war dating back to who knows when. So, you and others can crow all you want about women not dominating because there aren't as many playing - and you have a good point - but there never will be, because the ones who do play are exceptions to the rule. And that's the way it's going to stay. Until we see more women on skid row and death row we're not going to see as many of them playing pool.
Yes, my comments were emotional and I don't blame you for getting pissed. I'm simply reacting, as I have in similar discussions in the comedy newsgroup, to those who take one side and think that simply by taking it they are somehow more 'open-minded' than the other side. There is nothing wrong with someone asking why women are not as good as men at pool, although I must admit I think he cares less about the actual answer then the reactions his question inspires. I knew I should have stayed out of this topic.
I haven't played regularly since 1978, but played a bit in the mid 80s. I'm nothing special, but I had potential and there were times I felt like I could compete on a high level. Sure, talk is cheap, but that's what we're doing right now. Maybe if I played for a few months I'd be willing to engage your female player for a few bucks at straight pool. Then again, maybe not. I mean, afterall, she plays more than me. But that doesn't mean anything, does it? ....... Anyway, I'm not talking about myself alone. And I wasn't talking about the player you named. I was talking about Jeanette Lee. As far as I'm concerned she's on the level of a male B player and is very fortunate to have a female league to play in. Deep in her heart I'm sure she knows that. ........ And now please allow me to bow gracefully out of this nerve shredding discussion.
Tommy Joe (you win)
jimmyg said:
This is one of several "physical" reasons that again seems to go to the side. Forget about talking about an "unpopular observation." It shouldn't be unpopular. Every woman has a certain amount of testosterone. There have been plenty of studies that show that women who excel in sports and competition have a higher level than the average female. IMO, that speaks to drive and competitive nature, which keeps those females in the game, rather than dropping away from it.
Males of course have a higher level than women, on average, so the competitive nature and all that goes with it is going to be naturally higher in males (furthering the numbers game).
Fred
Cameron Smith said:
That's a nice high run, 150. I saw 9 ball players who didn't even know how to play straight pool run 80s and 90s on sheer shot-making and position play alone, guys with very little knowledge of straight pool. Lee played daily, so she says, with Gene Nagy. I'm sure he taught her a lot. But there are guys who would be considered B players who have run over a hundred. All we hear about are the disadvantages the women have, but what about the many anonymous men who are good but not quite good enough to compete with the top men? Can they play with the women on their tour? Why not?
Tommy Joe
cdavis9771... I actually enjoy watching women sports....[/QUOTE said:
Then by proxy you are capable of playing at Earl Strickland's level at times, because Earl was knocked out by a woman in the IPT. I believe Karen beat Jonny Archer too. I'm not saying Earl and Jonny are better or worse than their female opponents. I'm saying the girls can beat the guys. Could you?
I don't think this was addressed to me, but ...ledrums said:
I'll say I MIGHT beat Karen IF both her hands were in casts and she played without her glasses. However, isn't this thread about men and women in general and not particular one offs?
I don't think I would go as far to say Jenette Lee is a B player. Sure she might play B speed on any given day but on average she would fall into A catagory. I'm a B player and if I catch a gear I can play A speed and I don't think I would want any action with her.
We all know the answer to this question. I don't understand why everyone is beating around the bush about it.
Practice is the issue here. Let's say we have a girls age 15 and a boy age 15 both just starting to play pool. The girl is already at a 4 to 7 year disadvantage. That young lad has been practicing stroking for at least that long. He's getting the repetitive rhythm and timing down and toning those muscles. We aren't talking about just occasionally either. This is nearly constant. You just can't expect a girl to play pool better than a guy after this kind of training.
Practice is the issue here. Let's say we have a girls age 15 and a boy age 15 both just starting to play pool. The girl is already at a 4 to 7 year disadvantage. That young lad has been practicing stroking for at least that long. He's getting the repetitive rhythm and timing down and toning those muscles. We aren't talking about just occasionally either. This is nearly constant. You just can't expect a girl to play pool better than a guy after this kind of training.
CaptainJR said:
THE CASE CRACKER!!! ...and it was right there all the time staring us in the face. The debate is over. Can't argue with logic.
Tommy Joe said:
Tommy Joe: You really need to less reactive and emotional, and try to improve your reasoning. For someone like yourself who hasn't played much in 25 years, your points are mostly incoherent.
I presented those statistics on break-and-runs as these types of detailed player statistics are rarely compiled and can be quite informative. While statistics are certainly open to interpretation, they can show certain patterns and trends from which one can try to draw conclusions.
Nowhere in my posting did I say that someone else should be allowed to break for a woman. If indeed Efren were to break the rack open for a women as you suggest, there's no reason to think that a player like Jeanette Lee or Allison Fisher or Sarah Ellerby couldn't run out a wide-open table.
In another posting you stated that Jeanette Lee is a B-player, which is another indication that you really don't know what you're talking about.
Jimmy M. said:I don't know, Jay. It better happen pretty quick because there's this 16 year old girl who plays golf pretty sporty.(I know she has yet to make the cut in a men's event but I wonder how many of the male pro's played her speed when they were 16 or made cuts in PGA events when they were her age).
Michelle Wie is a great young talent, but so far she keeps doggin' it in the final round. She has yet to win a Women's tournament, let alone a Men's event.
