Why CTE is silly

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GetMeThere said:
So Dr. Dave is RESPONSIBLE to explain exactly what CTE is, Dave says he has posted everything he can FIND, YOU say you KNOW what "basic CTE" is, but you "don't have to explain anything."
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Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. You obviously took your helmet off long enough to let the blood flow to your brain.

I don't have a page dedicated to CTE. I don't have multiple versions of it trying to muddy the waters of information.

If he understood it why isn't there just one version? Do I really have to ask that over and over again??
 
eezbank said:
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. You obviously took your helmet off long enough to let the blood flow to your brain.

I don't have a page dedicated to CTE. I don't have multiple versions of it trying to muddy the waters of information.

If he understood it why isn't there just one version? Do I really have to ask that over and over again??
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Well, OK, fine. Now at least we know where you stand (somewhere in a different galaxy, apparently).

I guess I'll give it one last try: Can you link to a site that has a SINGLE, SIMPLE, BASIC version, so that I and others can learn about CTE without being confused by Dr. Dave's "multiple versions?"

I mean, Dr. Dave HAS gotten most of his information "from the internet." So, when you tell him to go to the "source," I suppose you're referring to someplace on the internet. Where is it?
 
GetMeThere said:
I certainly don't see how you can claim that. You mean you think Dr. Dave should go get a lesson from, say, Stan Shuffet, and then completely and in all detail present and explain all that on his pool FAQ site?

I don't think that's what Stan would want. If Stan WANTED all his stuff completely and thoroughly explained and presented he would have DONE SO--either here, or even just on his own website. Instead, he's selling a DVD for forty bucks about which his buddy and seeming promoter JoeyA says: "if I had not taken the lesson I can candidly tell you that I would have had some "issues" with the video by itself."

You're living in a fantasy world. NOBODY has come out with a full explanation of CTE "in all it's glory." All that have come out are bits a pieces here and there--but, in fact, even those are enough to COMPLETELY DISMISS IT as an aiming "system."
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Well, I've always been accused of having a keen grasp of the obvious, so here goes. After Stan's video is released and is viewed by thousands of players all over the planet, will Cte still be a secret? No, I dun thin so, Luusay. We can all emerge from our shelters and caves and bask in the sunlight knowing we won't be persecuted for our relig...oops! I mean for actually taking the time to learn Cte.

Some of us spent a few shekels to get it, some learned from friends. Some figured it out and muddled through the process by reading these threads. The commonality is simply we all made an effort. Cte will be out there and despite the best efforts of the Cte Cosa Nostra (no dis intended) our ranks will be infiltrated and finally broken by the infidels. I knew this day would come and all my cryptic Cte posts would fall on deaf ears.

On the bright side we can actually discuss pivot systems without shouting matches although the world will still be flat in some edges (pun intended).
When the dvd is released it will be considered to be in bad taste to post in these threads again without putting out an effort to learn these systems. And I don't mean just look at them because your comments will be analyzed by the rennaissance of Cte users. You will be summarily dismissed, discredited by your peers and escorted from the octagon by the Cte police. :outtahere:

Best,
Mike
 
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I guess I'll give it one last try: Can you link to a site that has a SINGLE, SIMPLE, BASIC version, so that I and others can learn about CTE without being confused by Dr. Dave's "multiple versions?"

I mean, Dr. Dave HAS gotten most of his information "from the internet." So, when you tell him to go to the "source," I suppose you're referring to someplace on the internet. Where is it?[/QUOTE]

THIS is a fact and good post
 
peteypooldude said:
It is not personal, We just dont like you
FYI I no longer have anything but sarcasm for Dr Dave either
After his quoting and posting of BREAKNRUNS post on his website
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Hey...it is BRKNRUN...I just want to make sure you have the right one since there are a few versions.
 
Mikjary said:
...After Stan's video is released...will Cte still be a secret?
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Well, I don't know. Apparently, lots of people have taken a course from Stan (or Randy, or Scott Lee)--and haven't seen fit to post an exact explanation. Will a DVD really make things that different? Why?

Or will the vagueness still continue, as exemplified by JoeyA's review: He plays "MUCH better"....but then again he'll let us know if it "really improves his play" and whether or not he "decides to go back to his old aiming methods."

Which, btw, is pretty much the SAME THING he said in his review from a similar lesson he took in MAY (except for that one, he was playing WORSE, but...."expected to get better.")

I don't think there IS an exact explanation. I know what I think the CTE system is: make this line and whoop-dee-doo, turn around and pivot and,....then try to make the shot...

...or, as Stan Shuffett has said: " A key factor in CTE is that the shooter learns to largely disengage his conscious mind from the aiming process." " I’d want my subconscious mind and body to take over."

No wonder we don't hear any details...
 
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For those that are using gb and contact points to aim ,
There is an adjustment period, Anytime you learn something new
it takes as much as a couple weeks to reap the benefits
of new material. Less for some and more for others.
And one legit question GMT . What is your high run
in 9b or 8b . 1 rack or 2 etc... Not poking just asking
 
peteypooldude said:
Post 2306 in this thread
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I dont get your point???

When I made that post...I thought it fit perfectly with what was being posted about CTE.

It was (I thought) very obvious humor. Honestly I still think it is funny.:)

I personally don't care either way if Dave chooses to leave it up...or take it down....I can see the humor intent side....and I can also see how it does not really fit within the overall site mood.

I can't be considered a CTE basher since I use a form of CTE on a specific shot and I also use a "roll" method (kind of a hybrid CTE) on another....

I will not disclose the "roll" method...and I have chosen to stop disclosing any methods that I use...from here forward my only participation will be reference to a book, video, or instructor that may help whoever with thier specific theory about pool.....and of course I will post stupid humor..:wink:

Not that anyone cared or benefited anyway....but I am done trying to share pool theory with others that "might not know"

I thought that part of the intent of this board was for pool players everywhere to meet and share theory about pool...but apparantly it has changed...or I was mistaken.

I did not ask to have that post added to the end of that section....But...If it make CTErs feel better....I can come up with a Ghost Ball parody for Dave to post at the end of the Ghost Ball aiming section.......It would be pretty easy...I could call it the "Holy Ghost Ball"....or feel free to do one of you own....I like humor...and I am humble enough of a man to laugh at myself from time to time....:)
 
eezbank said:
GetMeThere said:
So Dr. Dave is RESPONSIBLE to explain exactly what CTE is ... YOU say you KNOW what "basic CTE" is, but you "don't have to explain anything."
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If he understood it why isn't there just one version?
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CTE is an align-and-pivot "aiming system" (and/or "pre-shot routine") that uses the cue-ball-Center-To-object-ball-outside-Edge (CTE) line as a reference. That's probably as simple and accurate an explanation as possible; although, it lacks detail that is necessary to actually use a "system."

There are many versions and variations of CTE. The ones we have seen mentioned, described, and/or demonstrated so far are (although, there might be others I don't know about):

1.) The version you presented in the helpful video posted on Youtube, but later removed. I think this was the first time a person who actually uses CTE attempted to openly describe and demonstrate the system (or at least one version of it) in detail. I applaud you for that. At the time, you claimed it was the version of CTE taught to you by Hal Houle.

2.) The version described on Spidey's blog, which he claimed he also learned from Hal. This seems to be the currently-recognized "official version" of CTE, but I'm not sure.

3.) SAME-AIM - The version that Randy and Scott recently started advertising. We don't have a clue what this version is, because absolutely nothing has been shared about it. Also, it sounds like their students are required to take an "oath of secrecy" to not share with others anything they learn.

4.) Pro-One - Stan' Shuffett's version that we have also heard very little about (of substance anyway). However, after the DVD is released, which is expected to happen soon, we will know what Pro-One is; and we might even learn how and why it works.

5.) Ron's 90/90 system, which some people claim is a variation (or at least "distant cousin") of CTE.

6.) The CTCP (center-to-contact-point) variations described by coloartist and LAMas. Of all of the versions I've seen and heard about to date, these actually make the most sense to me, but they are not accepted as "official versions of CTE" by any CTE proponent, as far as I know.

Which version do you think is the "one version" ???

FYI, I've added some qualifications to my CTE resource page for the two versions I have quoted to try to make it clear what I think is the current "official version." Version 1 (quoted from you) is now identified as: "an early and simplified version of CTE." And Version 2 (quoted from Spidey's blog) is now identified as: "the currently-accepted official version of CTE." I might be wrong on this, but at least it is now more clear what I personally consider the "official" version (not that it should matter).

Regardless, it is clear that there are many versions of CTE out there. There certainly ain't just "one." Also, I still think the illustrations, observations, and explanations in my CTE resource page apply to all of the versions, even the ones we haven't heard about yet; although, I can't be sure until we actually hear about them.

Regards,
Dave
 
BRKNRUN said:
When I made that post...I thought it fit perfectly with what was being posted about CTE.

It was (I thought) very obvious humor. Honestly I still think it is funny.:)

I personally don't care either way if Dave chooses to leave it up...or take it down....I can see the humor intent side....and I can also see how it does not really fit within the overall site mood.
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Not many quotes on my site are humorous, but yours certainly is. I still think it is appropriate, given all of the historical "drama" and "baggage" associated with CTE.

BRKNRUN said:
I did not ask to have that post added to the end of that section....But...If it make CTErs feel better....I can come up with a Ghost Ball parody for Dave to post at the end of the Ghost Ball aiming section
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I would be happy to add this to my site, especially if it is as creative, funny, and memorable as your allegorical CTE parody.

Regards,
Dave
 
eezbank said:
dr_dave said:
There are many versions and variations of CTE.
...
Which version do you think is the "one version" ???
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The one that you would post from your own personal experience. That would be the "ONE" version I am referring to. Sorry, I thought I made that clear. I must not have.
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Sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

Of all of the versions and variations of CTE I have tried over the years, I don't really personally identify with, or favor, any "one" over any other. To be honest, none of them were very effective for me personally; although, I know I probably could have improved my ability to adjust over a wide range of shots with more practice. Nevertheless, I did understand and appreciate how CTE could help some people.

The goal of my CTE resource page isn't just to post my own "personal experience" (if so, I would call it a "blog" instead). The goal of all of my FAQ pages is to provide useful information and resources (articles, videos, illustrations, explanations) from myself and from as many other good sources as I can find.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

Of all of the versions and variations of CTE I have tried over the years, I don't really personally identify with, or favor, any "one" over any other. To be honest, none of them were very effective for me personally; although, I know I probably could have improved my ability to adjust over a wide range of shots with more practice. Nevertheless, I did understand and appreciate how CTE could help some people.

The goal of my CTE resource page isn't just to post my own "personal experience" (if so, I would call it a "blog" instead). The goal of all of my FAQ pages is to provide useful information and resources (articles, videos, illustrations, explanations) from myself and from as many other good sources as I can find.

Regards,
Dave
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Can you please link to a description of the actual versions of CTE that you have "tried" and learned?

When reading your page I missed your personal testimonial in there?

I didn't see who you learned from or any details.

Nor did a see any instructions from you on how to do any of the "flavors" of CTE you say you have tried?

This whole idea that CTE is like Baskin Robbins with 31 Flavors is nonsense. As we see Ghost Ball also appears to have a bunch of "flavors" but no one talks about that. You and others speak of CTE derisively rather than scholarly.

Your whole CTE "resource" page is a sham. It's a thinly disguised way to hide the fact that you think CTE is at best a form of self-hypnosis.

For the most part you do GREAT work which is why I am so passive-aggressive where you are concerned. I think that VEPS is a great resource, I think your high-speed video work is tremendous as is the collaborative work you have done with Bob Jewett and others.

So why not treat CTE the same way? Why not simply make it known that YOU have NOT learned CTE from ANYONE directly who KNOWS it thoroughly enough to be counted as a teacher. Those people RIGHT NOW are Dave Segal, Stan Shuffet, Randy Goetlicher and Scott Lee. Any one of those four people would be (or would have been) happy to get together with you and teach you CTE from the inside out.

THEN you, as scholar, could approach it using your resources to figure out HOW it works. Which part is purely mechanical, which part is mental and where do they overlap?

You seem to want regular people with no scientific training to do that for you. People who don't have access to video equipment adequate enough to the task, people who don't have access to a university shop that can build all sorts of testing apparatus, people who don't have an endless supply of test subjects as you do with your students.

You could have figured out CTE long ago if you REALLY wanted to.

But instead you prefer to pick out statements from people like me who are trying to describe the action happening when using CTE and the results without being able to describe the underlying physics/mental overlap.

Isn't this essentially the SAME thing as when a pro player tries to describe a certain action that they can do but they get it wrong as to the actual physics? Not being able to break it down into 1.2.3 instructions with footnotes does not mean that CTE doesn't work. It only means that the person using it can't tell you HOW it works.

I truly expect better from you Dave. I am impressed with everything you have done EXCEPT for your work on CTE which, honestly, isn't work.
 
JB Cases said:
[...]
Your whole CTE "resource" page is a sham.
[...]
THEN you, as scholar, could approach it using your resources to figure out HOW it works.
[...]
You seem to want regular people with no scientific training to do that for you.
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Are you trying to sell the RIDICULOUS notion that only a scientist could describe CTE?

Dr. Dave has more specific information on CTE than I can find ANYWHERE else. If it's inadequate it's because CTE is inadequate.

If you think there should be resource work on CTE out there, why don't you prod the CTE ADVOCATES to put it up? Isn't it REALLY STRANGE...REALLY STRANGE that NO CTE advocate has put up a substantial website on CTE giving ALL details and COPIOUS examples, diagrams, videos**, etc.? Isn't it especially strange that, it seems, so many people claim to want to HONOR Hal Houle's contribution--yet they don't put anything up about Hal and his systems?


**And I won't even MENTION in the main text the TRULY BIZARRE sight of the numerous videos out there of people simply pocketing balls and saying "SEE??" Such videos are DEVOID of useful content about CTE.
 
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GetMeThere said:
The video's a disappointment ?




The video's a TRIUMPH ?




The video maker will end up apologizing ?


Your review (STUFFED with superlatives--followed by indecision about whether you'll go back to your old methods), and the above certainly prove one thing:


CTE INCITES CONFUSION AND AMBIGUITY WHEREVER IT GOES!
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You are such a petty little man.

For someone who claims that they have excelled with such greatness in their life, you are and continue to act and post in a very petty manner.

I lose more respect for you by the post.
 
JoeyA said:
You are such a petty little man.
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Isn't it odd how people have complained about my "attitude" in this thread--but it's everyone ELSE who is always calling ME names??

Joey, I didn't do anything but quote you (or honestly summarize your statements). If there's "pettiness" in what I posted--it comes directly from you.
 
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