Why do cue makers do this
- Thread starter Travis Niklich
- Start date
cue makers
Eddie
I hope you understand I'm not trying to point any fingers I'm just trying to state that as cue makers we should never stop trying to learn more about how to make cues whether you have been at it for 6 months 10 years or 40 years the is always something to learn. I just think when people start to say thing about other cue makers it shuts down the learning process. I think there have been some great post on here in the past but lately it is just a bunch of name calling and BS. If you want to make all your cues for $350-500 that's great just under stand that there will always be people that want a cue with more work or artistic value than what you offer and not to bash the cue makers that cater to that group. if you never push your self to do more work or fancy cues I think you lose the passion for cue making and just start to put out work. Every cue maker has to learn for himself what to charge for there work and most people are willing to pay that extra amount of money to get the level of work that they desire. I have made a large number of player cues but it is usually the customer that want to push the envelope of what the cue will look like. I think it's great to offer cues to people new to the sport at a good price and would like to see them buy your cues over the China junk I have seen all over lately. $50-150,000 to get a good shop is not out of line when you factor in what it takes to do all aspects of cue making and is not an ego thing for me.
Eddie
I hope you understand I'm not trying to point any fingers I'm just trying to state that as cue makers we should never stop trying to learn more about how to make cues whether you have been at it for 6 months 10 years or 40 years the is always something to learn. I just think when people start to say thing about other cue makers it shuts down the learning process. I think there have been some great post on here in the past but lately it is just a bunch of name calling and BS. If you want to make all your cues for $350-500 that's great just under stand that there will always be people that want a cue with more work or artistic value than what you offer and not to bash the cue makers that cater to that group. if you never push your self to do more work or fancy cues I think you lose the passion for cue making and just start to put out work. Every cue maker has to learn for himself what to charge for there work and most people are willing to pay that extra amount of money to get the level of work that they desire. I have made a large number of player cues but it is usually the customer that want to push the envelope of what the cue will look like. I think it's great to offer cues to people new to the sport at a good price and would like to see them buy your cues over the China junk I have seen all over lately. $50-150,000 to get a good shop is not out of line when you factor in what it takes to do all aspects of cue making and is not an ego thing for me.
And how is that?WheatCues said:
What is proof in the pudding?
Being in business myself, I completely understand where Travis is coming from. I have a "lab guy" that works for me and actually makes my lenses and puts them in eyeglass frames. I pay him very well and he does a great job, my lab equipment used to perform these duties cost nearly $200,000. The lenses themself are dirt cheap, but I have to make enough profit on them to pay for the equipment and the guy that runs the equipment. The initial cost of the lens really doesn't mean anything, it's what it costs to produce the final product and how good is it gonna be because of superior equipment that really matters to me. I believe in an old saying that my dad taught me at an early age "you get what you pay for" More often than not, that statement is very, very true. I love quality cues and am willing to pay for them.
P.S. My kids believe that Satan owns Walmart!
Doug
P.S. My kids believe that Satan owns Walmart!
Doug
Different cuemakers cater to different customers in the same way automobile companys do.
Eddies cues can pocket balls just like Szamboti's
A Ford escort will get you from point A to point B, so will a Ferrarri
You just have to decide, would you rather show up in a Ferrari or a Ford?
For some it's simply a question of utility, many others have cost considerations.
One thing is for sure if the Ford guy had the $ he'd buy the Ferrarri. The Ferrarri guy is never gonna buy a Ford. Cost is not a deciding factor in his decision making process.
When looking at cues the question's that I ask myself are
Do I like the way it looks?
Do I like and hear good things about the maker?
Is it easily serviced after the sale?
Does the cue represent a good value?
If I get it home and don't like the cue can I flip out of it without a huge loss?
Just my random thoughts.
Eddies cues can pocket balls just like Szamboti's
A Ford escort will get you from point A to point B, so will a Ferrarri
You just have to decide, would you rather show up in a Ferrari or a Ford?
For some it's simply a question of utility, many others have cost considerations.
One thing is for sure if the Ford guy had the $ he'd buy the Ferrarri. The Ferrarri guy is never gonna buy a Ford. Cost is not a deciding factor in his decision making process.
When looking at cues the question's that I ask myself are
Do I like the way it looks?
Do I like and hear good things about the maker?
Is it easily serviced after the sale?
Does the cue represent a good value?
If I get it home and don't like the cue can I flip out of it without a huge loss?
Just my random thoughts.
Your Kids may be correct.DWBOD said:
But you are correct in saying generally you get what you pay for. Not to say, that some people do an excelent job and are then under priced.
A friend makes silver jewelery. He had a nice ring and only wanted $45 for it. It did not sell. It was suggested his price was too low. Raised it to $250 and was sold by the weekend. Sometimes there are real bargains out there, but there is mostly junk at the low end price.
For me , a cue that hits well is more important than the artistry in it.
Others prefer to have an amazing piece of art , even if it does not hit well.Sounds funny but I know of people with some very expensive cues, but prefer the hit and feel of cheaper cues. But they enjoy looking at the workmanship of the more expensive cue and so it stays in the collection.To me the amazing part is , they don;t really care about the playability, it is the fact that they have this really nice looking cue in the collection.
Neil
Rainman
Rainman tell them what you think about Wal-Mart
"yeah, Wal-Mart sucks yeah, yeah Wal-Mart sucks"
Dustin Hoffman Rainman
Rainman tell them what you think about Wal-Mart
"yeah, Wal-Mart sucks yeah, yeah Wal-Mart sucks"
Dustin Hoffman Rainman
I agree with Travis on this! I've only been building cues a few years and have learned and continue to learn from many cuemakers, both new and old. My prices are pretty low compared to many others on the market, but you've got to start somewhere and get your name out there. Supply/Demand will create the retail price over time.
There is a private forum for cue makers to communicate to each other without the public having access to it. It's the International Cuemakers Association Members Only Forum. If you're a cuemaker and are not a member of the ICA, take a look at what we have to offer, there's a great group of people with similar interests.
www.internationalcuemakers.org
Thanks,
Zim
There is a private forum for cue makers to communicate to each other without the public having access to it. It's the International Cuemakers Association Members Only Forum. If you're a cuemaker and are not a member of the ICA, take a look at what we have to offer, there's a great group of people with similar interests.
www.internationalcuemakers.org
Thanks,
Zim
WheatCues said:
Let's see Eddie,
35.00 Schmelke Blank
3.50 pin
5.00 phenolic
8.00 shaft blank
3.00 tip and ferrule
6.00 finishing supplies.
Total 57.50
Cost 350.00
Look like 600% mark up to me.
Resale value of a Wheat cue (priceless)
Sorry Travis, couldn't stand it any longer.
Predator shaft made in China=$200.
Why do
I don't make them anymore. I don't want that to sound like I'm to good to make a sneaky, but it just doesn't excite me anymore. I have no urge to stand at a machine and pump out cues one after another. I did my share of them earlier on and used many blanks delivered from the Schmelke factory.
My favorites had butterfly butt wedges. They are a great way to learn the basics of turning, installing pins, finishing and shaft tapers. I just enjoy sitting down with a blank sheet of paper, or a customer's design and figuring out how the heck I'm going to change it from a flat piece of paper into a living breathing cue. That's what tricks my trigger. I've told a lot of people who I've helped with cue construction, I can teach you mechanics, but I can't teach you perspective, color combinations, or basic design. As has been proven time and time again on this forum, any one can assemble a cue. That's just the tip of the iceberg!
Zims Rack said:
I don't make them anymore. I don't want that to sound like I'm to good to make a sneaky, but it just doesn't excite me anymore. I have no urge to stand at a machine and pump out cues one after another. I did my share of them earlier on and used many blanks delivered from the Schmelke factory.
My favorites had butterfly butt wedges. They are a great way to learn the basics of turning, installing pins, finishing and shaft tapers. I just enjoy sitting down with a blank sheet of paper, or a customer's design and figuring out how the heck I'm going to change it from a flat piece of paper into a living breathing cue. That's what tricks my trigger. I've told a lot of people who I've helped with cue construction, I can teach you mechanics, but I can't teach you perspective, color combinations, or basic design. As has been proven time and time again on this forum, any one can assemble a cue. That's just the tip of the iceberg!
Well -
Here my point though guys.
Lets assume I want you to build me a cue. 4 point 4 veneer, linen wrap no inlays, ivory joint, basic ring work, basic butt and cap.
You say $1500. I say okay, do you have a problem me sending wood, or ivory for you to use. Or not use based on inspection of materials.
I pay $1500 if you supply parts or I pay $1500 if I supply some of parts.
I understand that your name is going on it, etc so you could have refusal of inferior parts.
Let me tell you a little story.
Andy Gilbert build a cue from a fencepost from a guys farm once. It made for a great story and it had sentimental value for the guy. I think Andy was pretty new in cue building game at the time, but was a neat deal that I wont forget.
A huge old oak tree feel on my parents farm, they asked me if would like any of for a pool cue (pretty neat parents huh?). I told them no, but I thought it was a interesting idea.
Ken
Here my point though guys.
Lets assume I want you to build me a cue. 4 point 4 veneer, linen wrap no inlays, ivory joint, basic ring work, basic butt and cap.
You say $1500. I say okay, do you have a problem me sending wood, or ivory for you to use. Or not use based on inspection of materials.
I pay $1500 if you supply parts or I pay $1500 if I supply some of parts.
I understand that your name is going on it, etc so you could have refusal of inferior parts.
Let me tell you a little story.
Andy Gilbert build a cue from a fencepost from a guys farm once. It made for a great story and it had sentimental value for the guy. I think Andy was pretty new in cue building game at the time, but was a neat deal that I wont forget.
A huge old oak tree feel on my parents farm, they asked me if would like any of for a pool cue (pretty neat parents huh?). I told them no, but I thought it was a interesting idea.
Ken
cutter said:
I must disagree ...:sorry:
To assemble a cue requires the use of machinery.
Some people can not use that machinery without injuring themselves or damaging the equipment.
Perhaps they could be taught ... perhaps not.
Not everyone can assemble a cue.
However, I do see your point and can understand exactly what you are getting at.
Are you making your own full splice butts now?
If you are do you do any work for other cue makers?
Willee
wood for cues
Hi Ken
To answer your about using wood from a customer is more for your protection than mine. When I buy wood from a saw mill I like to talk to the guy who owns the place or cut the wood they can tell me much more than a customer who bought the piece. I like to find out how the wood was cut how long ago it was cut where did it come from and in the case of a wood that I have not used before they can tell me how the wood will cut, glue, and try to compare how it will work in relation to other woods I have used in the past. If a customer sees a piece that they want in a cue I suggest they tell me where they saw it (phone # and web site) and what kind of wood it is and let me contact the saw mill. I normally buy from saw mills that direct import the wood from the country of origin and I buy in larger volume than most usually between 50-200 pieces at a time so I get a much better price and a bigger selection than a person who buys 1-2 pieces. I also know how long the wood has been cut or dried and whether it has been kiln dried or vacuum kiln dried or air dried it all makes a difference. I try to keep a very large selection of wood on hand to help with this. I hope this helps
Hi Ken
To answer your about using wood from a customer is more for your protection than mine. When I buy wood from a saw mill I like to talk to the guy who owns the place or cut the wood they can tell me much more than a customer who bought the piece. I like to find out how the wood was cut how long ago it was cut where did it come from and in the case of a wood that I have not used before they can tell me how the wood will cut, glue, and try to compare how it will work in relation to other woods I have used in the past. If a customer sees a piece that they want in a cue I suggest they tell me where they saw it (phone # and web site) and what kind of wood it is and let me contact the saw mill. I normally buy from saw mills that direct import the wood from the country of origin and I buy in larger volume than most usually between 50-200 pieces at a time so I get a much better price and a bigger selection than a person who buys 1-2 pieces. I also know how long the wood has been cut or dried and whether it has been kiln dried or vacuum kiln dried or air dried it all makes a difference. I try to keep a very large selection of wood on hand to help with this. I hope this helps
You are right that you don't have to be a cuemaker member to read the ICA forum. Collector members and most Associate members don't have forum access, but Cuemakers, Cue Repairmen, Apprentices and Supplier members do. So how many would pay the dues just to get on the forum if they were not pursuing cue building? We don't allow nit picking and fusses and all on there. So if an apprentice member was to get on and start the kind of threads we have seen go on here we would delete his posts and warn him. Then he would get locked out if he continued.Mr Hoppe said:I too have been completely appalled by some of the childish exchanges that I have read on here lately, and I try not to get involved. But let's not point the blame squarely at the newer cue makers. Some of them are to blame, yes, but the knocks have also been coming from non-cue makers as well as established members here as well. Regardless, we all need to realize that there are real people on the other side of these computer screens, and we should give each other the same respect as if we were speaking face to face. Now stepping down from soap box . . .
Chris is right. This is a public forum, and fortunately or unfortunately, all members are allowed to read and post here. If a more restricted environment is desired, we can all join the ICA and use their cue maker's forum. But guess what . . . you don't have to be a cue maker to read and post there either. You just have to pay the yearly membership fees and you now have access. I also agree with KJ, the cost of materials is clearly only one component that determines the price of the cue. We've all gotten cars worked on where the cost of the labor to install the part exceeds the cost of the part itself, sometimes by a large margin. Labor cost is a large contributor, and we also have shop costs and then, if we're lucky, there can be a supply/demand factor in the pricing as well. I wouldn't worry much about the public discovering that cocobolo, though exotic, isn't very expensive at all. I'm still not going to sell a cocobolo cue for $50.
Mr H
Zims Rack said:
Not ridiculous at all, one has nothing to do with the other.
Accept don't condemn.