Why do I scratch on this break shot?

mjantti

mjantti

Enjoying life
Silver Member
Had my Nokia N8 today with me and managed to set it up in a way to record some of my shooting. Ran a 54 but while editing it, managed to delete it for some reason. I bet $100 on stupidity :)

Anyway, on one of the break shots I managed to scratch and while I have a pretty good idea why it happened, I would like to have a few deeper insights from more experienced and knowledgeable 14.1 players why this happens. This is one of my favourite break shots. It can be shot as hard as you like with stun/slight follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLPH79zOr8

I hit the second lowest ball pretty full with stun/draw and I think I'm going straight towards the right side row of the balls in the rack, but somehow the cueball starts moving sideways after the impact, seems like the rack "kicks" the cueball away, like on a rebound. It's pretty much impossible to have the cueball travel sideways with a spin applied with a level cue. IMO.

A couple of ideas:
-the rack is not tight and the impact goes around the rack and returns to the cueball.
-there is a larger mass in the rack, that's why the cueball rebounds on impact
-I hit the 2nd lowest ball first and accidentaly shoot just a bit of follow and then the CB hits the corner ball and starts travelling towards the corner.
-divine intervention
 
mjantti said:
A couple of ideas:
-the rack is not tight and the impact goes around the rack and returns to the cueball.
-there is a larger mass in the rack, that's why the cueball rebounds on impact
-I hit the 2nd lowest ball first and accidentaly shoot just a bit of follow and then the CB hits the corner ball and starts travelling towards the corner.
-divine intervention
Click to expand...

You pretty much answered your own question.... I rewatched the break several times, and yes you are not hitting a meaty part of the rack. and it is struch with a kind of stun follow stroke that is actually follow after it contacts the rack at precisly the right contact point that just follows along the tangent angle.

my sugestion would be to hit a little bit more follow or draw to get away from the rack after contact. its almost like the CB is traveling in slow motion after contact which is a pretty good indication that you need a little bit more of something.

Good Luck, and keep up the 14.1

-Steve
 
The cue ball is hitting the lower part of the 9 ball, and the cue ball had nowhere else to go.

Draw the CB enough to get it to contact the upper part of that 9 ball - which means you might need to abandon the stun draw for side draw. You need to contact the 9 just next to where it touches the 13, but you don't want to get caught in the gap (my specialty). Pay special attention to the tangent line between the contact point on the break ball, and where it takes the CB into the rack.

Remember, on every break shot, the cue ball should go in neat, and it should come out neat. You are only going to be able to accomplish that if you know exactly what the cue ball is going to do after it contacts the break ball.
 
Thanks for your replies.

I thought I was going to hit the 9-ball full in the face and that's why I didn't want to apply draw and draw myself back into the kitchen. I think for harder shots I should play follow and for a softer break shot I should use slight draw. Maybe the problem lies in that I wanted to shoot too hard and split the rack wide open. I still think scratching like that happens very rarely, especially when I'm hitting the 9-ball almost full in the face.
 
mjantti said:
Thanks for your replies.

I thought I was going to hit the 9-ball full in the face and that's why I didn't want to apply draw and draw myself back into the kitchen. I think for harder shots I should play follow and for a softer break shot I should use slight draw. Maybe the problem lies in that I wanted to shoot too hard and split the rack wide open. I still think scratching like that happens very rarely, especially when I'm hitting the 9-ball almost full in the face.
Click to expand...

If you watch a few of my 14.1 videos on Vimeo, you will see that sometimes I will tap the rack softly, trying to create a dead ball. If the angle is not to my liking, I prefer doing that instead of smashing the balls all over and scratching - or even worse missing the break ball.

Here are two examples of what I am talking about - starts at about 10:50 - http://vimeo.com/16293425

and in this video - starts at about 5:50 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BTiRb1ipWk

In this video - at 2:50, you will see the benefits of positioning the cue ball and having the option to draw back down table - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYH2DoKX3W8&feature=related
 
Weird Scratch

I watched it a bunch of times too and I'd say Dave is right. The CB hits the crack of the 9 and the 15 at a tangent that leads to the pocket. The absence of spin allows the CB to follow the natural path that the tangent sends it in - which unfortunately is directly toward the corner pocket.

It looks like you don't have enough angle on the shot that would allow you to hit it with high follow, so I'd say your best bet would be to draw the CB with enough speed and draw to come off the pile and end up somewhere between the side pockets. You should definitely have several shots available then - the 15 in the same corner should be one of them and probably the 5 in the side.

Excellent camera, by the way!

Ron F
 
Break Shots

mjantti said:
Had my Nokia N8 today with me and managed to set it up in a way to record some of my shooting. Ran a 54 but while editing it, managed to delete it for some reason. I bet $100 on stupidity :)

Anyway, on one of the break shots I managed to scratch and while I have a pretty good idea why it happened, I would like to have a few deeper insights from more experienced and knowledgeable 14.1 players why this happens. This is one of my favourite break shots. It can be shot as hard as you like with stun/slight follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLPH79zOr8

I hit the second lowest ball pretty full with stun/draw and I think I'm going straight towards the right side row of the balls in the rack, but somehow the cueball starts moving sideways after the impact, seems like the rack "kicks" the cueball away, like on a rebound. It's pretty much impossible to have the cueball travel sideways with a spin applied with a level cue. IMO.

A couple of ideas:
-the rack is not tight and the impact goes around the rack and returns to the cueball.
-there is a larger mass in the rack, that's why the cueball rebounds on impact
-I hit the 2nd lowest ball first and accidentaly shoot just a bit of follow and then the CB hits the corner ball and starts travelling towards the corner.
-divine intervention
Click to expand...


It is amazing how you can scratch on that break shot, it just doesn't make sense. But there is Hope.......
If you can teach yourself to use High Inside English (high left) on that side of the table. (high right on the other side of the table).
You will never scratch using that type of shot. You also get a good spread from the rack. The problem is getting use to hitting that break shot with that English. It is hard to do. You will miss a lot in the beginning b/c you will not be use to using it but once you do get use to it. You will see it Works and you will really like it. Set up some break shots over & over and give it a try. Let me know what you think. Good Luck.
 
Looks like the mass of the rack got ya. A touch of draw and you'd have been in the clear. The cue ball has no issues traveling sideways after rebounding off the rack, regardless of its spin, as your movie indicates. The cue ball will react differently to a full rack than it would to a single ball.
 
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Either more draw .... Or, what I think is better, and easier, simply follow this shot. You're hitting low enough on the rack with this shot to follow.
 
3andstop said:
Either more draw .... Or, what I think is better, and easier, simply follow this shot. You're hitting low enough on the rack with this shot to follow.
Click to expand...
I agree. I some thread here I read advice I found useful. When the cue ball is going to hit weak part of the rack (second to last just like in your case) you can easily go with follow and never scratch. Follow (good one) will bend the cue ball's path towards the end rail.
 
Do you mind sharing what camera you are using in this video. It's the perfect quality video for recording pool. This is the quality I'm looking for. Also, only seen one shot, but it seems you take an awful lot of warm-up strokes, at least 12 or 13. Do you do this every shot or just on this particular shot?
 
themack said:
Do you mind sharing what camera you are using in this video. It's the perfect quality video for recording pool. This is the quality I'm looking for.
Click to expand...
I suppose the answer is in the very first sentence of OP's post. That's Nokia N8. Not a camera in common sense, or should I say not just a camera :)
 
Thank you for your replies, especially to BlackJack and others for their input.

Yes, the device is Nokia N8 phone with an excellent 720p videocamera. I use Blu-Tack to attach it firmly to a flat surface and this combination seem to work nicely. :thumbup:
 
themack said:
Do you mind sharing what camera you are using in this video. It's the perfect quality video for recording pool. This is the quality I'm looking for. Also, only seen one shot, but it seems you take an awful lot of warm-up strokes, at least 12 or 13. Do you do this every shot or just on this particular shot?
Click to expand...

Usually I do a lot of warmup strokes because I'm not entirely happy with my grip hand. Always had problems with it and now because I haven't practised that much lately I still struggle with it, especially when preparing to shoot hard. Sigh...
 
i'm glad this thread was posted. i do that same freakin scratch all the time! i kind of wish you didnt cut out the few seconds after the scratch. i'm curious to know if you used as many profanities as me too. :angry:
 
Njhustler1 said:
i'm glad this thread was posted. i do that same freakin scratch all the time! i kind of wish you didnt cut out the few seconds after the scratch. i'm curious to know if you used as many profanities as me too. :angry:
Click to expand...

How did you know that? :grin: Well, would've been educational because most of them were in Finnish... :rolleyes:
 
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