I am wondering why so many turn their noses up at Chinese production cues with the exception of Predator?
What is so great about a Predator and why do they cost so much?
What is so great about a Predator and why do they cost so much?
Why do people like Predator cues?
- Thread starter bigshooter
- Start date
Why do people like Predator Cues?
Predator Products, based in Jacksonville, FL., no longer MAKES any cues or shafts. They are ALL contracted out to various manufacturers (mostly in the Pacific Rim, ie., China). Predator is now a Marketing and Distribution company. NIKE is another company that has been VERY successful in marketing and distribution (never had a factory of their own), but advertises like no other!
The reason consumers like and want anything with the Predator name on it is;
1. past reputation (good quality products),
2. superior engineering (low deflection shafts, etc.)
3. ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING !!!
Promotion and Ads cost BIG $$$ and certainly add to the cost of their products. They also have a big budget for Research and Development (R & D) which contributes to the over all cost of their products.
All said, pool players want superior equipment and the "Predator" name is always out in front of them.
Predator Products, based in Jacksonville, FL., no longer MAKES any cues or shafts. They are ALL contracted out to various manufacturers (mostly in the Pacific Rim, ie., China). Predator is now a Marketing and Distribution company. NIKE is another company that has been VERY successful in marketing and distribution (never had a factory of their own), but advertises like no other!
The reason consumers like and want anything with the Predator name on it is;
1. past reputation (good quality products),
2. superior engineering (low deflection shafts, etc.)
3. ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING !!!
Promotion and Ads cost BIG $$$ and certainly add to the cost of their products. They also have a big budget for Research and Development (R & D) which contributes to the over all cost of their products.
All said, pool players want superior equipment and the "Predator" name is always out in front of them.
nancewayne said:
All valid points, I don't mind them making money, more power to them, I owned a Predator shaft myself for awhile.
I have a little inside knowledge on the Chinese production industry, I worked for a company that directly imports over 200 million dollars of Chinese merchandise a year and the production cost verses the retail price would shock most people.
I see decent looking Chinese production cues on ebay for $50.00 to $149.00 and although the cost to produce a Predator is likely higher than these cues it's not that much higher, they are making a killing on every cue they sell.
Don't get me wrong, a product is worth whatever a consumer is willing to pay no matter what it costs to make and I know for a fact that the Chinese can make a product that will rival anyone in the world.
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predator used to be made in the states. they built up a good reputation here and now they're looking to save a few bucks by laying off their employees in FL and moving production to china. they'll never get another dime of mine! (i'd still buy a 1st edition predator product second hand though)
I'm probably gonna be shot down in flames for saying this, but I don't care because each player has his preferences.
I have tried a full predator cue and a predator shaft with a different butt, and I hate how they shoot, because they don't give as much accessible CB control as compared to alot of 1 piece shafts that I have shot with.
Another problem I found when shooting was the prdator shafts generally have too stiff a hit, it's like shooting with an ash snooker cue, which is seriously crap, because I prefer a cue shaft to have a little flex in it at least, as this makes spin a little more accessible, and so the Prador shafts just didn't impress me in the slightest, but that is just my own views from experience and personal preference.
I haven't tried any Chinese made cues, but I have shot with a few cues made in the Phillippines and they not only hit pretty nicely, but the amount of inlay work that you can get for your money is pheonominal
In the end of the day, it's down to personal preference, I'd be happier going for a custom ordered cue stick, but that's just my own preference from experience
Willie
I have tried a full predator cue and a predator shaft with a different butt, and I hate how they shoot, because they don't give as much accessible CB control as compared to alot of 1 piece shafts that I have shot with.
Another problem I found when shooting was the prdator shafts generally have too stiff a hit, it's like shooting with an ash snooker cue, which is seriously crap, because I prefer a cue shaft to have a little flex in it at least, as this makes spin a little more accessible, and so the Prador shafts just didn't impress me in the slightest, but that is just my own views from experience and personal preference.
I haven't tried any Chinese made cues, but I have shot with a few cues made in the Phillippines and they not only hit pretty nicely, but the amount of inlay work that you can get for your money is pheonominal
In the end of the day, it's down to personal preference, I'd be happier going for a custom ordered cue stick, but that's just my own preference from experience
Willie
most cues from the PI aren't made very well and don't do well state side. i think it's the moistureTheWizard said:I'm probably gonna be shot down in flames for saying this, but I don't care because each player has his preferences.
I have tried a full predator cue and a predator shaft with a different butt, and I hate how they shoot, because they don't give as much accessible CB control as compared to alot of 1 piece shafts that I have shot with.
Another problem I found when shooting was the prdator shafts generally have too stiff a hit, it's like shooting with an ash snooker cue, which is seriously crap, because I prefer a cue shaft to have a little flex in it at least, as this makes spin a little more accessible, and so the Prador shafts just didn't impress me in the slightest, but that is just my own views from experience and personal preference.
I haven't tried any Chinese made cues, but I have shot with a few cues made in the Phillippines and they not only hit pretty nicely, but the amount of inlay work that you can get for your money is pheonominal
In the end of the day, it's down to personal preference, I'd be happier going for a custom ordered cue stick, but that's just my own preference from experience
Willie
To be honest, I think i bought it at the beginning because I played carom and liked thin shafts (so i bought a Z shaft) and @ the beginning I just found Predator shafts with this feature. A lot of pros did recommend this stuff and also the advertising on their site was attractive for me.
I tested a lot of other cues, and nothing impressed me.....also i was disappointed of the shaft material ....
But after two years I found a cue with a nonlaminatedshaft that fits much better then the predator stuff.
Also its not that easy to admit that a nonPredator shaft hits much better, if you own 7 Z shafts ;-)
I tested a lot of other cues, and nothing impressed me.....also i was disappointed of the shaft material ....
But after two years I found a cue with a nonlaminatedshaft that fits much better then the predator stuff.
Also its not that easy to admit that a nonPredator shaft hits much better, if you own 7 Z shafts ;-)
nancewayne said:
I thing these three points already mentioned tell you all you need to know - or at least almost all. I'd like to put an emphasis on #3 as that was that made me want to buy a Predator so much back in February of 2007 - yet my will to get one appeared way sooner.
I assume that Predator's website must have been the major factor that made me want one so much - back then, a few years ago in Hungary you could find not many more than 5 (!) Predator butts and a very few more shafts. As it is today, most of the players shoot with Predator or will play with it...
However I believe that they're mistaken - just like I had been -, as there are many, many more cues that are so much better than a Predator cue.
I gave up using my 5k2 with a 314(2) because even if I made a nice shot with it I had the feeling that it was not me but the shaft that made that particular shot - and had to face the truth that those shots would have been much more difficult with a regular shaft...
...hence I switched back to a one-piece shaft and I couldn't be happier.
One last thing - I know it is getting way too long but this is a major issue these days - is that in my opinion the QUALITY of Predator cues FELL so much recently, that it is staggering. Having shafts and ferrules getting apart or loose, having $1,000+ predator cues buzz, having finish chipping off or wearing off extremely easily from Air cues and BK2's... Just to mention a few issues that are not unique by any means.
I believe that the question of "Why do people like Predator cues?" should be rhetorical, as in my very honest opinion they should not be used - not necessarily because they are crap (everyone should decide about that one!), but because there are many better opportunities.
[another long post:shrug: ]
"I gave up using my 5k2 with a 314(2) because even if I made a nice shot with it I had the feeling that it was not me but the shaft that made that particular shot - and had to face the truth that those shots would have been much more difficult with a regular shaft...
...hence I switched back to a one-piece shaft and I couldn't be happier."
do i understand this right, you switched from a predator to something else because it made shots easier so you wanted to make the game "much more difficult" tell me i am misunderstanding this, i dont know of too many players that are so good they need to make the game more difficult...
...hence I switched back to a one-piece shaft and I couldn't be happier."
do i understand this right, you switched from a predator to something else because it made shots easier so you wanted to make the game "much more difficult" tell me i am misunderstanding this, i dont know of too many players that are so good they need to make the game more difficult...
Hey Nick
Fair play on your question and your views.
From what I found when I tried a predator shaft out a few years back, was that a predator generally has a bit less flex in the shaft, (which is good if you like a stiffer and it does reduce deflection a little) but sometimes this can give a bit more speed in the CB and can result in not getting as much english on the CB, but this isn't always the case because the hardness of the cue tip makes a difference in this.
A single piece shaft is generally a little more flexable and ok, it may mean that there'll be a bit more deflection, but the softer hitting shaft gives the CB that little bit more oppertunity for english to take effect, but again, this can vary from whatever hardness of cue tip used.
With a predator shaft I shot a ball at 1 tip below centre on the CB and got a reasonably good draw, but when I tried the exact same shot with my own shaft, same shot again at 1 tip below centre, I got just that little bit more draw from the CB, and I know that both the predator and my own shaft, each had a "Triangle" leather tip on them.
I can only speak from my understanding of why I might have been getting less spin, and I am fully aware that not all shafts will play exactly the same, just as not all players are gonna shoot exactly the same.
I'm just posting my thoughts and views from my experince of trying a predator shaft and nothing more.
Willie
P.S. I got a Meucci BD shaft for the Gambler 2 that I had a few years back, and I hated how it played also even though I spent a good 2 months shooting with it and trying to get settled in with it, and so it's not just Predator shafts that I'm not keen on
Fair play on your question and your views.
From what I found when I tried a predator shaft out a few years back, was that a predator generally has a bit less flex in the shaft, (which is good if you like a stiffer and it does reduce deflection a little) but sometimes this can give a bit more speed in the CB and can result in not getting as much english on the CB, but this isn't always the case because the hardness of the cue tip makes a difference in this.
A single piece shaft is generally a little more flexable and ok, it may mean that there'll be a bit more deflection, but the softer hitting shaft gives the CB that little bit more oppertunity for english to take effect, but again, this can vary from whatever hardness of cue tip used.
With a predator shaft I shot a ball at 1 tip below centre on the CB and got a reasonably good draw, but when I tried the exact same shot with my own shaft, same shot again at 1 tip below centre, I got just that little bit more draw from the CB, and I know that both the predator and my own shaft, each had a "Triangle" leather tip on them.
I can only speak from my understanding of why I might have been getting less spin, and I am fully aware that not all shafts will play exactly the same, just as not all players are gonna shoot exactly the same.
I'm just posting my thoughts and views from my experince of trying a predator shaft and nothing more.
Willie
P.S. I got a Meucci BD shaft for the Gambler 2 that I had a few years back, and I hated how it played also even though I spent a good 2 months shooting with it and trying to get settled in with it, and so it's not just Predator shafts that I'm not keen on
It does seem a little ironic that some guys would turn there nose up at some young kid playing at the next table with a Chinese made cue as there digging the $2000.00 custom out of their case.... then they screw on a Predator shaft.
nick55 said:
he wants it to be his skill that pockets the ball, not his equipment
Wiz,
I have seen this phenomenon with whippier shafts but I do believe that the Preds apply more linear spin (draw) on shots as opposed to whippy shafts. Next time you play try drawing with a tight bridge and the with a loose one. In my opinion linear is ALWAYS better.
I can and do go way out wide and love the ability (with control) to really apply a lot of spin on some shots. This makes some types of position plays fairly routine that I would never dream of attempting with a whippy/high-deflection cue.
I have a question for you. Do you orientate the grain of your cue every time you shoot? Have your noticed why most snooker cues have bevels cut into the bottom?
Nick
I have seen this phenomenon with whippier shafts but I do believe that the Preds apply more linear spin (draw) on shots as opposed to whippy shafts. Next time you play try drawing with a tight bridge and the with a loose one. In my opinion linear is ALWAYS better.
I can and do go way out wide and love the ability (with control) to really apply a lot of spin on some shots. This makes some types of position plays fairly routine that I would never dream of attempting with a whippy/high-deflection cue.
I have a question for you. Do you orientate the grain of your cue every time you shoot? Have your noticed why most snooker cues have bevels cut into the bottom?
Nick
It also strikes me as odd as some custom cues go for $350.00 on this site and they probably cost the maker nearly that amount to build but a Predator that retails for a $1000.00 likely costs around a $100.00 to build in China.
Again I am not saying Predator is bad, the quality is good but the mark up is phenomenal.
Again I am not saying Predator is bad, the quality is good but the mark up is phenomenal.