Why Do So Many Bar Room Recreational 8-Ball Players Cling to the Nonsense Outdated Rules?

Most places around my area have rules posted, but even then they're different from place to place. Some places have winner break, some have money break. I love how some list that "Eight Ball Must Go Clean". And as we all know, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t care.

It’s just amazing to me how these rules have managed to survive on such a widespread basis for half a century, when most of the players who adhere to them weren’t even born at the time the rules were changed?
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did you just play in a bar for the first time? that song is as old as sliced bread

no the people that play like that dont care about pool other than the 2 games per yr they play.
no need to educate, the tables at the bar are serving they`re purpose and taking in quarters.
 
Sheldon said:
They've convinced themselves that if they eliminate "slop" or luck from the game and create ways to make things more difficult, it makes them better. This type of player usually abhors 9 ball, and calls it a "slop game" and considers it beneath them.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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9 ball is a dumb game though , no other game in billiards can you pocket the win ball before its turn, nor win on a single stroke .
 
Texas Carom Club said:
did you just play in a bar for the first time? that song is as old as sliced bread

no the people that play like that dont care about pool other than the 2 games per yr they play.
no need to educate, the tables at the bar are serving they`re purpose and taking in quarters.
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Sadly, it’s not just bar room players. I see a majority of the recreational players of all ages (many that have likely never played a game of pool in a bar) that play in our family oriented, non-alcoholic pool room play by the same ancient rules. I guess they have been passed down to them from their parents, grandparents or others.

I stay completely out of it, unless one of them invariably asks me for a rules clarification, and I will tell them the tournament rules we play by here in all our tournaments, which are considered as our house rules, although they can play by whatever rules they choose when playing themselves.
 
I played in a bar one night and the owner was backing the guy I was playing , I was down on a pretty tough shot on the 8 ball and whoosh ,pow smash. He had thrown a full bottle of beer past my head and it smashed on the wall about 15 feet away. I said something , can't remember exactly what and he said I own the place ,I make the rules, if you don't like the rules you can quit ,but you lose the game. Before he could grab another beer bottle I shot the 8 in. Whew did that get dicey. lol
 
Cornerman said:
To be fair, that was the official BCA rule for a brief time in the 70’s. Fats and Mosconi played it that way on television. Bob Jewett’s 8-ball Rules article in BD discusses most rule changes since 8-ball rules were put to paper.
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Was the behind the line on fouls rule also include the fact if the ball was also behind the line you had to kick at it or do they spot the ball on the spot opposite side so it can be shot without kicking at it? I have never heard of any official rule set that had behind the line rule on fouls not spot balls if all your legal balls were also behind the line. The old 9 ball rules where it was ball in hand behind the line on the break and all balls made spotted, the 1 ball was also moved if it was also behind the line.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Just curious if this is just in our area (NC) or is it everywhere? Why are so many recreational bar room 8-ball players so ignorant as to the sensible 8-ball rules to play by?

Ball-in-hand behind the headstring on all scratches and when your only balls or 8-ball is behind the headstring you’re expected to kick down and back just to hit it - really? This is just one of the many screwed up ancient rules that makes absolutely no sense that still lives in many of not a majority of bars that have a few tables for customers to play on, generally while consuming alcohol.

How do you go about educating the regular players and changing the culture of rules to play by in a bar room, unless it’s the manager or owner who lays down the law? I’m guessing most of them are likely also ignorant of the rules or just don’t care.

It’s just amazing to me how these rules have managed to survive on such a widespread basis for half a century, when most of the players who adhere to them weren’t even born at the time the rules were changed?
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What rules should they be playing by? APA, TAP, BCA, VNEA, WPA? I think that's part of the problem, if we don't have one standard set of rules, you'll still have arguments, outside of bar rules.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Was the behind the line on fouls rule also include the fact if the ball was also behind the line you had to kick at it or do they spot the ball on the spot opposite side so it can be shot without kicking at it? I have never heard of any official rule set that had behind the line rule on fouls not spot balls if all your legal balls were also behind the line. The old 9 ball rules where it was ball in hand behind the line on the break and all balls made spotted, the 1 ball was also moved if it was also behind the line.
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The spot shot was once a thing.

It would only be a thing if balls behind the line were spotted. I'm thinking the other part of the rule was just forgotten or never learned by casual players and just persisted.

Now the only time a spot shot is ever seen is in 1pkt or some wierd tourney playoff.
 
I always thought having to kick at the ball in the kitchen was the best part of the rules. The guys would wind up and hit it like a break shot.

The thing is... There was never any penalty for not hitting the ball. Because I'm decent at kicking, I could play the fool and just miss when it benefited me. It's odd how often those misses left the cueball in a horrible position fort my opponent.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Was the behind the line on fouls rule also include the fact if the ball was also behind the line you had to kick at it or do they spot the ball on the spot opposite side so it can be shot without kicking at it? I have never heard of any official rule set that had behind the line rule on fouls not spot balls if all your legal balls were also behind the line. The old 9 ball rules where it was ball in hand behind the line on the break and all balls made spotted, the 1 ball was also moved if it was also behind the line.
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The spot up rules for balls behind the line on a scratch is in the 1977 and 1985 BCA rule book for 8-ball.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think part of the blame has to go on tournament directors, league operators and bar owners/staff. I used to play in a fairly large local league that had a rule: "No safes." I don't remember what they did about kicking at balls behind the line after a scratch. "House Rules" could be the real rules.
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When I learned to play 8Ball you had a side pocket for the 15 and a side for the 1ball. After a scratch you spotted a ball, if you made a ball and scratched you spotted the ball you made plus another ball. You fail to hit the 8 ball = loss of game. Lot of these rules have gone away, but the one rule that always stands, my house my rules.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Sadly, it’s not just bar room players. I see a majority of the recreational players of all ages (many that have likely never played a game of pool in a bar) that play in our family oriented, non-alcoholic pool room play by the same ancient rules. I guess they have been passed down to them from their parents, grandparents or others.

I stay completely out of it, unless one of them invariably asks me for a rules clarification, and I will tell them the tournament rules we play by here in all our tournaments, which are considered as our house rules, although they can play by whatever rules they choose when playing themselves.
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"It's how my dad played, are you calling him a liar?"
 
The comments on trickshots in Facebook shorts make you lose all hope in humanity.
99% don't understand it is a trickshot to begin with. And they comment the shot is illegal. Uhm yeah it's a machinegun shot. Or: uhm no you are allowed to pot a ball before the 8 in the same shot.
 
It would be funny to do a big survey under X amount of bar players and establish "the rules". If you check the "Im a league player"-box your results are dropped.
 
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