Why do some people suck at pool?

Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
You all know the guy. He has played the game for many years, yet is barely a C-player, everything seems to be ok in his physical game. He has a decent stance, ok stroke (but rarely very good) etc, etc. But he misses all the time and for no clear reason.

Do you think an aiming system will help this person?

Is he more likely have a vision problem (and will a system help with that)? Or is it his concentration that is likely to blame? Does he have a learning disabiltiy? Or is his hand to eye coordination bad, so that he can't correct inaccurate aim at the last milisecond?

Or can it be so simple that he doesn't know where to aim?
 
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Hm...are you talking about me?

I only have two years of lay in, but that is in two me year chunks separated by about a 5 year break. That being said, I think I have a good understanding of the fundamentals, an okay stroke, and sometimes I seem to do okay and then I'll find myself way off on a shot that I thought I was good on. Still trying to figure out what is going on. I sometimes feel like I'm seeing things wrong when I'm down on the shot so not sure if it's a visual thing or lack of a good aiming system that is my problem.
 
slide13 said:
Hm...are you talking about me?

I only have two years of lay in, but that is in two me year chunks separated by about a 5 year break. That being said, I think I have a good understanding of the fundamentals, an okay stroke, and sometimes I seem to do okay and then I'll find myself way off on a shot that I thought I was good on. Still trying to figure out what is going on. I sometimes feel like I'm seeing things wrong when I'm down on the shot so not sure if it's a visual thing or lack of a good aiming system that is my problem.
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For a couple of years I struggled at a C-level plateu and was not able to improve no matter what I did. To be honest I have no idea exactly what was holding me back, even though I was doing several things wrong at the time, but I know some people that practise as much or more than myself yet has never broken through the same plateu. They look much better playing than I did technique-vise, nothing really stands out, yet they never get better...To me it's a mystery, and one that would merit an experiment. I wish I had the nerve to try teaching one of them an aiming system (any other than ghostball) to see if they would improve, but I'd hate to bring the subject up. They may be more knowledgable than me, for all I know, and I'd look like a condescending pxxxk even bringing the subject up. I wish someone would have tried the experiment with a player that had struggled for several years to find this out and not a developing new player (I don't trust the advertisement testimonials).
 
Straightpool_99 said:
You all know the guy. He has played the game for many years, yet is barely a C-player, everything seems to be ok in his physical game. He has a decent stance, ok stroke (but rarely very good) etc, etc. But he misses all the time and for no clear reason.

Do you think an aiming system will help this person?

Is he more likely have a vision problem (and will a system help with that)? Or is it his concentration that is likely to blame? Does he have a learning disabiltiy? Or is his hand to eye coordination bad, so that he can't correct inaccurate aim at the last milisecond?

Or can it be so simple that he doesn't know where to aim?
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I won't mention any leagues, but when I played in a league, I was surprised by the number of people that had a lot of years under their belt that met your description.

I think some people are only interested in a social evening out and are not motivated to improve. If they do move up in their league they may upset the balance of their team or have to play better player, so maybe this could be a reason. You would think that it is normal for someone to want to improve, but I guess to some, it just doesn't matter as long as they think they are having a good time. More than likely they probably are only playing that one night a week and aren't putting the time in. Also they probably aren't asking for or receiving any kind of help with their game.
 
duckie said:
Why do people suck at playing pool.......real simple.......because they choose to.
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Actually, Duckie, you are 100% correct. It can be broken down to many reasons, because pool is actually a very hard game that has many factors that have to come together at the correct time to be fairly successful. But, those factors are learnable to where one can make the game much easier. People just choose not to for a variety of reasons. A lot of those reasons, I believe, are mental. They just can't see themselves being a decent player, so they constantly sabotage their own game.
 
Like golf, the game is difficult to play with proficiency.

The flip side is equally baffling. When I watch or play a really good shot maker I just don't get why I can't do that all the time too, LOL. I mean it's not like I don't know where to aim or how to deliver the CB there. It's also not like he's making shots I've never made. I just miss them more often. I just wonder why if I can do it with some frequency, then how come not every time? :confused::D
 
This is a good topic. I was surprised to find it here in the aiming forum, because personally I think the answer has little to do with aiming. Like others I was surprised to see so many of these typed of players in league as well. I mean how is it possible that someone could have over 1500 career APA matches and still be a 4 with a 40% win rate? I think there are a few reasons and some people may share several of these at once. 1. Lack of want to. Some people just don't care about improving or getting better. They don't practice. League is just a fun night out for them. 2. They don't want to increase their handicap. 3. They don't have an honest assessment of their own game. The example I mentioned is a guy that, despite being terrible, thinks he's fantastic and even gives timeouts to 7s on his teams. 4. People practice, but practice the wrong things. They don't really know how or what to work on to improve. 5 Lack of knowledge. To play pool well you have to no only execute the shots, but know what shots to shoot or how to shoot them. If you don't become a student of the game and read and watch great players it's hard to progress. 6. Lack of time. Getting better at pool is a commitment, and some people may not have the time to spend on the table. For some of us getting better at pool is our hobby. Others may have varied interests that brings them away from the game.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Like golf, the game is difficult to play with proficiency.

The flip side is equally baffling. When I watch or play a really good shot maker I just don't get why I can't do that all the time too, LOL. I mean it's not like I don't know where to aim or how to deliver the CB there. It's also not like he's making shots I've never made. I just miss them more often. I just wonder why if I can do it with some frequency, then how come not every time? :confused::D
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Many years ago I tried my hand a trap shooting. The guys at the range were friendly and helpful enough, but despite all their help, I couldn't hit 5 out of 25. They all said they were just like me, but quickly got to their present level. Most of these guys could hit 23-25 out of 25 targets. At the time I thought that 23 or 24 was damn fine shooting, and 25 out of 25 was perfect shooting, but they informed me that it's nothing special. Hitting 94 out of 100 was pretty average (like a C player in pool), 96 out of 100 was great, 97 out of 100 was phenomenal, and 99 out of 100 was world class.

The guys who could consistently hit 94 probably spent months of weekly shooting to get there. To get up to hitting 97 with consistency took years of dedicated shooting, firing tens of thousands of rounds. To average 99 out of 100 you basically have to sell your soul to the devil.

Maybe the actual numbers are off (I quit shooting soon after I began for a lot of reasons), but the point is that there is not a lot that separates the levels of proficiency, so we can shoot really well now and then and deceive ourselves that we are at a much higher level. There is no shortcut, though. The best players have put in an incredible amount of time, money, and dedicated focus into their game. While we all can have our moments, the top players can summon up those moments practically at will because they paid their dues while the rest of us have not.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
...Maybe the actual numbers are off (I quit shooting soon after I began for a lot of reasons), but the point is that there is not a lot that separates the levels of proficiency, so we can shoot really well now and then and deceive ourselves that we are at a much higher level. There is no shortcut, though. The best players have put in an incredible amount of time, money, and dedicated focus into their game. While we all can have our moments, the top players can summon up those moments practically at will because they paid their dues while the rest of us have not.
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That's true in many sports. In baseball the guy who bats .200 won't make it to the big leagues yet the guy who bats .300 is hall of fame caliber. The difference between the two is really only 10% - as in one more successful at bat out of every ten plate appearances. Golf is similar in that regard. When you take it up it's much easier to break into the 90's than the 80's, even harder to get into the 70's. The incremental improvements become small, yet it takes a lot more work to make those tiny little improvements.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Like golf, the game is difficult to play with proficiency.

The flip side is equally baffling. When I watch or play a really good shot maker I just don't get why I can't do that all the time too, LOL. I mean it's not like I don't know where to aim or how to deliver the CB there. It's also not like he's making shots I've never made. I just miss them more often. I just wonder why if I can do it with some frequency, then how come not every time? :confused::D
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I could write a whole chapter or two on this subject. But, this is not the place for it. Sum it up to say, it has to do with the wiring in your brain. But, that wiring is changeable if one so chooses strongly to do so. You start with believing in yourself. And stop short-circuiting yourself from playing at a higher level.

Then it goes into focus, and a number of other things like really paying attention. (which can also be listed under focus). And, DESIRE. Or, as Randy stated, WANT.
 
Neil said:
I could write a whole chapter or two on this subject. But, this is not the place for it. Sum it up to say, it has to do with the wiring in your brain. But, that wiring is changeable if one so chooses strongly to do so. You start with believing in yourself. And stop short-circuiting yourself from playing at a higher level.

Then it goes into focus, and a number of other things like really paying attention. (which can also be listed under focus). And, DESIRE. Or, as Randy stated, WANT.
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This is good. I have the want but I'm still working on the focus and mental strength to believe in my game. This is actually true for both pool and golf. Last two years I made some good strides in my golf game, it was a commitment to working consistently towards getting better and after lots of struggles thing have finally started clicking for me there.

Hopefully in a little more time the same will happen with pool. I need to remember that taking 5 years off pretty much renders that first year of play worthless other than the knowledge I've been able to keep. Stroke work and things like that were totally lost though. So, I'm only 1 year in now, hopefully in another year or two I'll start seeing some real improvements.

With regards to aiming system, I don't have one. I just use ghost ball. I'm interested in other aiming systems but I don't know where to start with one. I've tried finding a good CTE video that covers th basics to get me started but I've yet to find one that really explains the basics of the system in a way that makes sense. I suppose one of these days I'll just have to spring for the actual videos, but was hoping to get a useable preview first to see if it was a good fit for me.
 
slide13 said:
This is good. I have the want but I'm still working on the focus and mental strength to believe in my game. This is actually true for both pool and golf. Last two years I made some good strides in my golf game, it was a commitment to working consistently towards getting better and after lots of struggles thing have finally started clicking for me there.

Hopefully in a little more time the same will happen with pool. I need to remember that taking 5 years off pretty much renders that first year of play worthless other than the knowledge I've been able to keep. Stroke work and things like that were totally lost though. So, I'm only 1 year in now, hopefully in another year or two I'll start seeing some real improvements.

With regards to aiming system, I don't have one. I just use ghost ball. I'm interested in other aiming systems but I don't know where to start with one. I've tried finding a good CTE video that covers th basics to get me started but I've yet to find one that really explains the basics of the system in a way that makes sense. I suppose one of these days I'll just have to spring for the actual videos, but was hoping to get a useable preview first to see if it was a good fit for me.
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CTE is so unlike any other aiming system that it won't make any sense at first. Only after accepting that it works, and putting in the time, will you then see that it does indeed make sense to use it. That said, there are many aiming systems out there. 90/90 just might be the easiest to learn. But, on the other hand, if ghost ball is working for you, you don't need to learn another way.

As far as pool and golf, don't tell yourself you hope you will have the same results. Instead, tell yourself that you will have the same results. If you don't believe it, it won't happen.;)
 
Some people are more natural than others and those who are not, they require more training.

Personally for me the biggest challenge is to perform a repetitive exact motion over and over again. As a result, sometimes I can finish a relatively complex 9 or 10-balls rack, pocket several moving balls in the row, perform bank shots and sometimes I can not pocket 4 balls or even 1 ball when I feel the worst.

In my case, it is related to my fine motor skills, which were affected by micro-strokes I had in the past.

Some people can have panic attacks which they are not aware of and they also may affect the shooting performance.

And of course the vision problems. The vision center can shift during the day or vary from day to day for some people. As a result, the person does not have a version center baseline (since it always changes).

And the last what I can think of is shooting with an opposite dominant eye. From my experience it is more difficult than shooting with the same one.
 
rubell said:
Some people are more natural than others and those who are not, they require more training.

Personally for me the biggest challenge is to perform a repetitive exact motion over and over again. As a result, sometimes I can finish a relatively complex 9 or 10-balls rack, pocket several moving balls in the row, perform bank shots and sometimes I can not pocket 4 balls or even 1 ball when I feel the worst.

In my case, it is related to my fine motor skills, which were affected by micro-strokes I had in the past.

Some people can have panic attacks which they are not aware of and they also may affect the shooting performance.

And of course the vision problems. The vision center can shift during the day or vary from day to day for some people. As a result, the person does not have a version center baseline (since it always changes).

And the last what I can think of is shooting with an opposite dominant eye. From my experience it is more difficult than shooting with the same one.
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Do you have any sources to back that up?

Just curious, because I don't know if I've ever seen a professional player change the alignment of their cue, i.e. Ronnie O'Sullivan's cue is always under his left eye.

Then again, maybe that's why they're professionals ;)
 
Hand to eye coordination, good players have it, bad players don't & search for an "aiming system".
 
Neil said:
I could write a whole chapter or two on this subject. But, this is not the place for it. Sum it up to say, it has to do with the wiring in your brain. But, that wiring is changeable if one so chooses strongly to do so. You start with believing in yourself. And stop short-circuiting yourself from playing at a higher level.

Then it goes into focus, and a number of other things like really paying attention. (which can also be listed under focus). And, DESIRE. Or, as Randy stated, WANT.
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Appreciate the psychoanalysis Neil, but you don't know me at all. In my case, which is what you seem to have drawn conclusions about, it has nothing to do with how I'm wired. So you're wrong on this one but hey, there's a first time for everything.

But thanks anyway. :thumbup:
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
Appreciate the psychoanalysis Neil, but you don't know me at all. In my case, which is what you seem to have drawn conclusions about, it has nothing to do with how I'm wired. So you're wrong on this one but hey, there's a first time for everything.

But thanks anyway. :thumbup:
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Well, it wasn't meant as a psychoanalysis of you. But of each one of us. How we react to things, and how we perform, is all based on genetic wiring of our brain to start with, (some start out easier than others) and our experiences determine the rest of the wiring in our brain. That wiring can be changed if one so desires. We can make tasks difficult, or easy. We can achieve the highest possible for ourselves, or mentally hold ourselves back for a variety of reasons.

Even Mosconi knew that in his own way. He himself stated that there were better players than he was. But, they didn't want it as bad as he did, and always found some way to lose. Willie always found some way to win. He was comfortable at the top, and did what it took to stay there. Many, many, people have the skills to be great. They just don't have the mentality to be great. It takes both. Whoever stated that after a certain point, the game is 90% mental, was exactly right.
 
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