Why do we still use the spot to rack?

arsenius

arsenius

Nothing ever registers...
Silver Member
The poolhall I play at recovered the tables a couple of weeks ago, and of course for a couple of days they racked beautifully. Now though, of course, there are multiple positions where you can rack tightly, and most of them are not straight nor in line with the 2nd diamonds. So I was thinking, why do we use the spot? Why isn't it standard just to draw in a triangle?

I know, many poolhalls have multiple types of racks, so that would be a drawback at some. But others have only one kind of rack (mine does).

Isn't the sardo rack just a fancy way to keep all the balls falling into the same divets all the time? So using a triangle instead of a spot would accomplish nearly the same thing. And wouldn't it help the bangers to get a decent rack too? You'd have to be mildly stupid to miss the lines. At least it wouldn't be crooked 1/2 the time.

Plus, of course, I like straight pool so it's not entirely selfless of me to bring this up. But really, why do we put up with the stupid spot?
 
arsenius said:
The poolhall I play at recovered the tables a couple of weeks ago, and of course for a couple of days they racked beautifully. Now though, of course, there are multiple positions where you can rack tightly, and most of them are not straight nor in line with the 2nd diamonds. So I was thinking, why do we use the spot? Why isn't it standard just to draw in a triangle?

I know, many poolhalls have multiple types of racks, so that would be a drawback at some. But others have only one kind of rack (mine does).

Isn't the sardo rack just a fancy way to keep all the balls falling into the same divets all the time? So using a triangle instead of a spot would accomplish nearly the same thing. And wouldn't it help the bangers to get a decent rack too? You'd have to be mildly stupid to miss the lines. At least it wouldn't be crooked 1/2 the time.

Plus, of course, I like straight pool so it's not entirely selfless of me to bring this up. But really, why do we put up with the stupid spot?
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There is one very important reason to use the spot. If 8-ball or 9-ball is played on the table the cloth at the foot spot will wear very quickly if a spot is not used. In any well-maintained billiard room, the cost of table time would go up!
 
The guy that I have setup my tables measures up for the spot, then takes a quarter and traces a circle around it with a black sharpie. That eliminates that pesky stick-on spot and works great for me. I don't do a lot of hard breaking at home though.
 
The spot is so the apex ball is just a little higher than the cue ball. When the cue ball hit's it at 27 mph it doesn't go up it goes down.
 
it also protects the cloth where the 1 ball is in nine ball for example, last week i was in a pool room in Germany with simonis cloth and they had the table marked perfectly where to place the rack, I could get a nice tight rack every time, made balls on the break etc, but I could tell they never used a spot and the cloth was worn down bad at the front of the rack while the rest of the table was only 30% worn down, there will be a hole there before the cloth is worn out.

the other reasons stated above are correct IMO too.
 
The spot's probably used because it's minimal. I do like the rack outline idea though, especially since it would correct those who think the 8 ball is the one that needs to be on the spot. Besides that, you could just draw a line from the "spot" down towards the short rail, to help straighten the rack.
 
Ok, that all makes sense, but why not use both then? You could have a spot for protecting the cloth, but still draw in a triangle. Best of both worlds, or would this cause some problem? I'm sure you could line them up properly with a bit of effort.
 
You're assuming that with the triangle there that the people that don't know what they're doing are going to take their time and line up the rack. You've seen these kids that have no idea how to rack. They toss the balls in the rack, push it up near the spot, and bang away. Dou you actually think that if the rack outline is there that these kids are going to take their time to line it up and make sure the 1-ball isn't rolling off? Not gonna happen. The tables I play on have the rack out line and after a few months the same problem still exists. I'm a good 8th of an inch in front of the rack line now when racking for straight pool. If I don't move the rack forward I can't get a solid rack.
MULLY
 
I have had this thought for awhile as well.

The spot WILL and DOES impact the rolling of balls on the table. This impact on the actual course of the ball is unnecessary. Some will just try to lessen or disregard the impact that it has and simply argue for status quo. Of course, the ones who are OK with status quo, will also be OK if not having the spot becomes status quo.

Outlines are much more effective and truer.
 
mullyman said:
You're assuming that with the triangle there that the people that don't know what they're doing are going to take their time and line up the rack. You've seen these kids that have no idea how to rack. They toss the balls in the rack, push it up near the spot, and bang away. Dou you actually think that if the rack outline is there that these kids are going to take their time to line it up and make sure the 1-ball isn't rolling off? Not gonna happen. The tables I play on have the rack out line and after a few months the same problem still exists. I'm a good 8th of an inch in front of the rack line now when racking for straight pool. If I don't move the rack forward I can't get a solid rack.
MULLY
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That's exactly what I assumed, though I guess your experience proves me wrong.:) I don't know how you could miss a triangle though. I understand, it's difficult to rack with a spot. But how do you screw up with a triangle?

Also, my idea was that the divets would form in the correct places to begin with. If you have lots of people that don't care using the tables, they would still form haphazardly.
 
arsenius said:
That's exactly what I assumed, though I guess your experience proves me wrong.:) I don't know how you could miss a triangle though. I understand, it's difficult to rack with a spot. But how do you screw up with a triangle?

Also, my idea was that the divets would form in the correct places to begin with. If you have lots of people that don't care using the tables, they would still form haphazardly.
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All I was saying is that for the good players that know what they're doing the triangle may work but these kids that come in that don't know what they're doing aren't going to pay much mind to lining that rack up correctly. Even if they do get the rear end of it lined up they most likely won't check to see if the sides are lined up too. With that said, another place I go to the guy that owns it put these little round stickers that have a hole in the center in the position of the 9-ball rack and they rack by hand. It seems to work better than anything I've seen so far. All the balls are touching and I haven't noticed any roll off when a ball rolls over them.
MULLY
 
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I've been meaning to create a prototype of a better rack that would solve this problem... It's snowy, maybe I'll do it today.

It would be the same triangle but would have an addition to it that would be in the shape of a "T." The bottom of the T would attach to the exact middle of the racker's side of the triangle and therefore the top of the T would fit under the end rail. Then the racker could just put the top of the T where it belonged (marked on rail?) and the triangle would automatically be in the correct spot everytime. Make sense?
____
T
\/

And I'd make a rule that tapping balls in the rack is not allowed.

Jeff Livingston
 
Interesting question...

arsenius said:
The poolhall I play at recovered the tables a couple of weeks ago, and of course for a couple of days they racked beautifully. Now though, of course, there are multiple positions where you can rack tightly, and most of them are not straight nor in line with the 2nd diamonds. So I was thinking, why do we use the spot? Why isn't it standard just to draw in a triangle?

I know, many poolhalls have multiple types of racks, so that would be a drawback at some. But others have only one kind of rack (mine does).

Isn't the sardo rack just a fancy way to keep all the balls falling into the same divets all the time? So using a triangle instead of a spot would accomplish nearly the same thing. And wouldn't it help the bangers to get a decent rack too? You'd have to be mildly stupid to miss the lines. At least it wouldn't be crooked 1/2 the time.

Plus, of course, I like straight pool so it's not entirely selfless of me to bring this up. But really, why do we put up with the stupid spot?
Click to expand...
One of the rooms I go to does do both. I do believe you still need the spot for accurate ball spotting in games like straight pool.:)
 
It should be obvious!!!

Because:

A) Anywhere the head ball touches the spot is legal.

B) Breaking is Offense.
C) Racking is Defense.

You haven't played for large sums of money, have you?
 
Yesterday at our 1st monthly tournament (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=51651) we testes out a new foot spot called the F Axis. It has 3 holes in it that allow you to rack a little high, a little low or right in the middle. What I did prior to the tournament was place the 1 ball on the center spot and tapped in the rest of the balls behind it. You can actually do that for all three spots but I was a little short on time so I just did the center spot and I did it only on the odd numbered tables to see what the players preferred. A lot of players liked it, especially the ones that usually have a tough time racking and some players simply don’t like change no matter what. One player thought he could rack better without it so I told him I would give him 5 minutes on another table to rack the balls and I would take 1 minute on one of these tables and who ever had the most spaces would lose a hundred. He refused but still held on to his belief. Giving such good racks did make for easy corner balls which some players thought was unfair but hey that’s the game we’re playing right and to those players I simple said what is more fair than 2 players breaking the same rack?

I think these new spots will be great for home tables and like someone else said it may be tougher in billiard rooms getting all customers to rack like this but perhaps it could become the norm on a few of the regular action tables. The person that invented these spots doesn’t have a website for them but if you’re interested here’s his email, jim.reynolds@comcast.net
I’ll try to update you later on the long term use of these new spots.
 
A question

Joe T said:
Yesterday at our 1st monthly tournament (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=51651) we testes out a new foot spot called the F Axis. It has 3 holes in it that allow you to rack a little high, a little low or right in the middle. What I did prior to the tournament was place the 1 ball on the center spot and tapped in the rest of the balls behind it. You can actually do that for all three spots but I was a little short on time so I just did the center spot and I did it only on the odd numbered tables to see what the players preferred. A lot of players liked it, especially the ones that usually have a tough time racking and some players simply don’t like change no matter what. One player thought he could rack better without it so I told him I would give him 5 minutes on another table to rack the balls and I would take 1 minute on one of these tables and who ever had the most spaces would lose a hundred. He refused but still held on to his belief. Giving such good racks did make for easy corner balls which some players thought was unfair but hey that’s the game we’re playing right and to those players I simple said what is more fair than 2 players breaking the same rack?

I think these new spots will be great for home tables and like someone else said it may be tougher in billiard rooms getting all customers to rack like this but perhaps it could become the norm on a few of the regular action tables. The person that invented these spots doesn’t have a website for them but if you’re interested here’s his email, jim.reynolds@comcast.net
I’ll try to update you later on the long term use of these new spots.
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So how long do you think it will take for the cloth to develop a hole?
This cannot be good. I am assuming it would wear the cloth out just as if there was no spot which is the dumbest thing you can do on a table.
As far as lining up the rack, we have always just drawn a straight line from just above the spot all the way to foot rail and also two little lines out from the center of the spot. This has worked well for all games for as long as I can remember which is awhile now. I get real upset when I find no spots on a table, which are suppose to be replaced by my janitor when he cleans the tables. I go around and replace spots all the time so it stays
as flat as possible around that area.
 
Pinocchio said:
I bet your high run in straight pool is less than 1/2 your # of posts!!!!!!!!
Pinocchio
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It's true, but I still love it. Nobody wants to play it with me, what can I say?

I bet the same is true of you, btw...:)
 
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