Why does everybody always knock the APA?

[davidhop]

I understand that it encourages people to play below their true skill level, but nobody twists your arm and makes you play. I play because it is fun. I don't take it very seriously. Come on, it is pool. It can't be that bad.

Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest

 

[Njhustler1]

Cause they think they're too big time to be seen playing on a bar table on a Wednesday night even though its a pretty good excuse to just go out, have a bunch of drinks and fun, and play some pool too on a weeknight.

 

[Koop]

I understand that it encourages people to play below their true skill level, but nobody twists your arm and makes you play. I play because it is fun. I don't take it very seriously. Come on, it is pool. It can't be that bad.

Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest

To take it a step further I also think it's a great time to teach new players.
I don't subscribe to sandbagging and think it's great when new players get better and advance.

I like tournament play the best but the APA has served me well for the past 10 years and hopefully for quite a few more.

 

[cuechick]

I don't know why people knock it either. It has been mostly a positive experience for me and the one constant in my pool experience. It has really allowed me to witness my personal progress with a true accurate measure, I think the handicapping system, unless manipulated is a fairly accurate measure of skill.
I have also run the gambit from serious, intense team play to casual and fun. I also really like 8 Ball but only play it when I play leagues.
I assume because APA runs the gambit of causal to serious players it invites all sorts of criticism but I have yet to see any pool competition that does not?

 

[Cornerman]

I understand that it encourages people to play below their true skill level, but nobody twists your arm and makes you play. I play because it is fun. I don't take it very seriously. Come on, it is pool. It can't be that bad.

Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest

I think one of the reasons is because the APA has a commanding voice among league systems. They're the oldest organized amateur association, so they deserve that voice. Unfortunately, they're organization is replete with accusations of sandbagging and overall handicap "issues."

I know they've retooled thier Equalizer Handicap system with a tweak here and there, but I think they'd be much better to bite the bullet and give their entire system an overhaul and do something that is closer to the other leagues (VNEA, BCA Pool League).

Using World Standardized rules as a starte would only help their cause. We need unity, not division in our sport.

Fred

 

[Crispy Fish]

I assume because APA runs the gambit of causal to serious players it invites all sorts of criticism but I have yet to see any pool competition that does not?

I think that's really it. Many serious players don't like to hang out with poor players who don't demonstrate a motivation to improve. Many APA members are mediocre and only play that one time a week. It just depends on your tolerance for hanging around with that kind of player.

 

[jjinfla]

:
Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest

Why do people always think the APA is being criticized or flamed when just plain facts are mentioned?

APA is great and excels at its intended purpose. It is a place where beginners can go to learn the game and enjoy themselves.

People in the APA make the mistake that since they are a high skill level that they are great players when in reality all they are are players who are beating up on low skilled players.

That is just plain fact.

APA has its place, and with all the members they have, one certainly can't argue with success.

Jake

 

[Icon of Sin]

I like shooting in the APA a lot. A Regional playoff tonite actually.

the Sandbagging is the only bad thing I see with the APA. If you can get by that then you are ok. I love it when my skill level goes up, it does make the game harder for me, which is good in the long run, but it also shows I have been progressing.

 

[96supersport]

Why I quit the APA

The team I was part of was made up of a group of well behaved, educated players who liked to hang out once a week and play pool. We didn't sandbag, didn't cheat, and were respectful of the people on the other teams. However, with very few exceptions, the other teams were rude, unsportsmanlike, confrontational, and willing to do anything to win. It's like the biggest accomplishment in their life would be getting to Vegas and they'd do anything to get there. So at some point, my former team will probably start a new league with members by invitation, which will also be an individual league as opposed to team based. I know its the nature of the game we play to run across a lot of a$$holes, but I choose not to deal with them.

 

[CaptainHook]

The team I was part of was made up of a group of well behaved, educated players who liked to hang out once a week and play pool. We didn't sandbag, didn't cheat, and were respectful of the people on the other teams. However, with very few exceptions, the other teams were rude, unsportsmanlike, confrontational, and willing to do anything to win. It's like the biggest accomplishment in their life would be getting to Vegas and they'd do anything to get there. So at some point, my former team will probably start a new league with members by invitation, which will also be an individual league as opposed to team based. I know its the nature of the game we play to run across a lot of a$$holes, but I choose not to deal with them.

O/T Hey 96supersport. I also own a 96 SS.

now back to the topic

 

[CantEverWin]

I played in APA for two years. In that time it allowed to to be in touch with some good players. It allowed me to learn the game better.
I live in So. Ca, it is filled with bars. If I walk into the majority of them It would be likely that I am the best player in it. Things I have learned being in APA has made it me way
There are couple good pool rooms here. If I walk into Hardtimes or Shooters, Theres a good chance I won't be in the top ten, (Or more if theres a tourney going on.)
Without the APA I would just be one of those bangers in the bars not knowing these pool halls, or players exsist.
If you join the APA for money, then your not in the right place. If you want to learn a little about the pool world. It's a good place. If you want to meet some people. Its a good place. If you want to challenge Efren, Johnny, Corey or anyone else. Your in the wrong place.

People should just shut up and play pool. Come across a sandbagger? Great, then that would mean he's usually losing, so chalk it up as an easy win.

Mike
APA 6(8ball) 7(9ball)

 

[Samiel]

The APA is probably okay for mid to low-level players. In terms of getting people together to play, it's great! However, once you get better, the APA seems to get worse in my opinion.

The three main things I see wrong with their 8-ball rules are:

1. Slop Counts - Do we really want to encourage winning by luck? I've seen many an APA player shoot bank shots that end up in another pocket.

2. You Are the Ball You Make on the Break - Sometimes you just don't have a shot after the break as a ball you may have made.

3. Playing Safe by Pocketing a Ball is NOT Allowed - There's some strategy loss because of this. Also, if I play safe or am left in a position where I have to kick at a ball and make one accidentally, I am forced to continue shooting.

Also, as I mentioned, as you get better the APA seems to penalize you. You can't have a great team of all APA 7 players because you'll go over their handicap limit. In my opinion, this promotes sandbagging (as others have mentioned). Also because of this, you are forced to break up your team if it gets too good. It may be that one week you'll have a team and the next week you'll have to make a new one because someone got knocked up a notch. It's sometimes hard to make a new team in one week! Of course, making new teams helps the APA make more money... so I'm sure it's okay with them! Also, their handicapping system is not published. I've seen APA 3 players go to APA 6 players in one week... sometimes just because the other team complained that the guy played to well... when in reality he may have just gotten lucky... and thus the team might have to break up! I don't know if I can condone an organization that keeps such things secret!

Still, like I said, if you just want to bang balls around for fun and meet new people, it's a good league for that. However, I think for a serious player, the APA has too many downfalls.

Just my opinion...

 

[girlwon1]

I actually love playing in the APA. I get out on Wednesday's and get to hang out with some pretty cool people. Hilary first had to twist my arm when I started playing in 2002. I had that idea that 8 ball was a bar game, and after many of my experiences playing in bars turned sour, I wanted to stay as far away as possible. I ended up saying yes after she almost broke my arm, and ended up loving it. I was lucky enough to play my first couple of seasons with a really great 8 ball player named Sam Manaole, and he taught me not to play 8 ball like 9 ball, and many other things. Playing really good 8 ball has helped me in all of my other games. I have met great people, and have donated my time to the APA giving players free lessons. It is neat to see so many of these players want to learn the game so badly, try so hard, love it so much. Now of course there are people out to have a good time only, and not to improve so much, and that's great too! I have a good time with all of them no matter their reason. Playing in the APA does not really serve as practice for me for what I do now. I usually just say that I go to hang out with my team members first (The Rack Pack), and then they make me play pool when I get there...

girlwon1

 

[Jaden]

I actually love playing in the APA. I get out on Wednesday's and get to hang out with some pretty cool people. Hilary first had to twist my arm when I started playing in 2002. I had that idea that 8 ball was a bar game, and after many of my experiences playing in bars turned sour, I wanted to stay as far away as possible. I ended up saying yes after she almost broke my arm, and ended up loving it. I was lucky enough to play my first couple of seasons with a really great 8 ball player named Sam Manaole, and he tought me not to play 8 ball like 9 ball, and many other things. Playing really good 8 ball has helped me in all of my other games. I have met great people, and have donated my time to the APA giving players free lessons. It is neat to see so many of these players want to learn the game so badly, try so hard, love it so much. Now of course there are people out to have a good time only, and not to improve so much, and that's great too! I have a good time with all of them no matter their reason. Playing in the APA does not really serve as practice for me for what I do now. I usually just say that I go to hang out with my team members first (The Rack Pack), and then they make me play pool when I get there...

girlwon1

Hey, do you know if Sam's planning on playing in the hard times qualifyer for the IPT? I know Dan is.....hmmmm

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I know the cap is to save time, but honestly, I have played very many other APA 7s who I would consider mediocre pool players at best. The APA needs ranks up to at least 10. I completely agree with Samiel about the slop and break rules as well.

 

[Eric.]

a really great 8 ball player named Sam Manaole,


girlwon1

Shane's 8 ball game is probably better than his 9 ball game. He's got game, good player. The APA isn't all bangers...

I just rejoined an APA team last year and see leagues in a different light. I'll be the first to admit, I used to be a league snob. Nowadays, I take it for what it is; a night out. I like to shoot Pool. I like a night out in the middle of the week. Win or lose, it's just getting together with some friends. This doesn't mean I don't want to win, though. It still eats at me when I lose, but APA is more like a mini tune-up for other Pool tournies. I think a little light competition keeps my game tuned up anyway.


Eric >has nothing better to do on Tuesday nites

 

[girlwon1]

Hey, do you know if Sam's planning on playing in the hard times qualifyer for the IPT? I know Dan is.....hmmmm

I dont acutally know. I know that he was trying to get together the entry fee for one of the qualifiers. He is living currently in Texas, and am not sure if he would come up for the Hardtimes one. That is interesting about Dan. It's neat to see he wants to play in the qualifier but then I hear that he isn't going to go to the Swanee tournament to go back to Tuscon to watch the Australian Open with his sister. He is so very talented and has the heart to suceed on the IPT. I hope he makes it..

 

[Jaden]

glad to hear it.

I dont acutally know. I know that he was trying to get together the entry fee for one of the qualifiers. He is living currently in Texas, and am not sure if he would come up for the Hardtimes one. That is interesting about Dan. It's neat to see he wants to play in the qualifier but then I hear that he isn't going to go to the Swanee tournament to go back to Tuscon to watch the Australian Open with his sister. He is so very talented and has the heart to suceed on the IPT. I hope he makes it..

I'm glad to hear that Dan isn't entering the swanee. Not because I wouldn't like to see him enter, but because that means I won't have to play him. I had forgotten about Sam moving to Texas oh well....

 

[Skess]

LIke some others here, being introduced to the APA helped me get my game to where it is now. I got to a 7 in 8 ball and an 8 in 9 ball, and I credit the top players I started out with for a lot of what I know now. I was very fortunate to get hooked up with players that were willing to share their knowledge about the game as well as how to run a team. Later, I was fortunate enough to be captain of a team that made it to 3rd place in Vegas. (Still my proudest moment as a captain!) Without my initial exposure to the league, I'd probably still be banging the ball around on the weekends at the local hall.

As far as the sandbagging problems, yes, I've seen it. And no, I didn't do it. But the reality is, that as long as there are handicaps and team limits like the 23 rule, there will always be some people that try to work the system. That's just the way it is. And that goes for any handicapped league.

I don't play APA anymore, but I am glad that I got to experience league play when I did. My teams always showed up to win, but in the end, it was about having fun. Like CantEverWin mentioned, if you're in this league for the money, you're probably going to be disappointed. Sure, there's money in it at the National level, but few teams get there and even less get to the big money. Keep it fun and learn the game and you'll get a lot more out of it.

 

[Cory in DC]

1. Slop Counts - Do we really want to encourage winning by luck? I've seen many an APA player shoot bank shots that end up in another pocket.

2. You Are the Ball You Make on the Break - Sometimes you just don't have a shot after the break as a ball you may have made.

3. Playing Safe by Pocketing a Ball is NOT Allowed - There's some strategy loss because of this. Also, if I play safe or am left in a position where I have to kick at a ball and make one accidentally, I am forced to continue shooting.

Each of these rules generally work to the favor of the less skilled player. How often does an A player slop a ball? Will a 3 run out any more if the table is open off the break? No, but B player or better will.

So I think of these rules as part of the handicap system. Even so, the race chart still doesn't even out the races (hence the 23 rule), but they would be even more uneven without these rules.

As far as the overall merits of the APA, just make sure you're on a team with friends you like hanging out with, view it as a social event, and you'll have a good time.

Cory