Why don't Pro Players have jobs?

catscradle said:
"Nobody's getting fat 'cept Mama Cass..."
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And look where it got her ! (that's humour, Mama Cass Elliot had one heck of a voice ! )

So what I see in this thread is that some consider making $100K a year "a lot of money" while others see this amount as less than "a lot of money" (likely in the context of being a professional athlete).

Some say that if you are a PROFESSIONAL in some endeavor, then you cannot have any other source of income, which I think is simply wrong.

So, to sum it up, there are differences of opinion and then there is Jude.

Dave, thinks the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
 
catscradle said:
.I was once a glass is half-full kinda guy, but I've lived long enough to get a little more cautious.
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Well, that's depressing... OK, I'll move on... I'll stick with promoting the "top tier" professional sports team that employs me... I was hoping eventually pool would raise the level of sponsorships and promotions, but it seems that so few of you seem think it's worthy of doing so.
:(
 
lodini said:
Well, that's depressing... OK, I'll move on... I'll stick with promoting the "top tier" professional sports team that employs me... I was hoping eventually pool would raise the level of sponsorships and promotions, but it seems that so few of you seem think it's worthy of doing so.
:(
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Its not that WE think its not worthy of doing,its up to the players to do that and unfortunately I dont see them doing that.;)
 
lodini said:
Well, that's depressing... OK, I'll move on... I'll stick with promoting the "top tier" professional sports team that employs me... I was hoping eventually pool would raise the level of sponsorships and promotions, but it seems that so few of you seem think it's worthy of doing so.
:(
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DaveK thinks the pool is worthy, I just wanted to point out that pool is not yet a top tier sport, and as such it is quite normal for professionals to need second jobs, like so many other sports.

Pool needs a proper development system, one where we can watch amateurs develop and morph into pro's. Pool needs to de-fracture itself and find a single voice for promotion, rules, ranking, make real championships (not just in name). Pool today is a bit like professional golf was in the early 1900s, and could develop in a similar fashion, imo, given the right promoter. In the meantime I'd rather see part-time-pros rather than no-pros-at-all.

Dave
 
I've played on the WPBA as a touring pro for seven years, and other than the top-ranked players, to my knowledge, most of the women have had either jobs or someone to support them (sponsors/boyfriends/families). Presently I work one day a week bartending at the local poolroom and have been trying to get more shifts (only to get told that because of my tournaments, it's hard for them to give me any more). Last year for about 6 months, I tried to get 'real' job, only to find that even for a part-time position, nobody was willing to let me take off the time I needed for my WPBA tournaments, or to be more flexible with what days I worked in a week.

I do also try to give lessons, but due to the inconsistency of people getting them, it's hard to rely on that for income.

I love playing pool, but it's pretty tough action....
 
 
Pro players are of the few people that make money for doing something fun.

Some people, think torturing children all day with books is fun, or playing dress up and carrying big weapons(thats a description of a 'pool player') is fun.

But when you found that occupation that you can do all day and enjoy it thats great. Its better than some of these other people performing a job that they do not do well in an industry they "love" with no real reason for them to be there.

Of the few pro players I have met I would say they are extremely gracious and intelligently socialable(it makes joking around with them so much fun).
 
lodini said:
Well, that's depressing... OK, I'll move on... I'll stick with promoting the "top tier" professional sports team that employs me... I was hoping eventually pool would raise the level of sponsorships and promotions, but it seems that so few of you seem think it's worthy of doing so.
:(
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I believe what Lodini is trying to highlight is not where pool is now, but where pool "could" be. Is it promoted or sponsored well in the US? No. But it has the potential to be if the right sponsors, intelligent businessmen & pros got together and said, "Let's make this thing work." Unfortunately, you can't have that happened, when players first question is, "what's my cut gonna be?" NFL and NBA stars can say that b/c those sports are established "top-tier" sports, but pro pool players aren't in an arena to do that yet! But that "me, me, me" thinking - THAT, IMO, is what holds this profession back.

The very few big names I know in this sport, tell me that the majority of men are out for numero uno - themselves, thus no cohesive strategy can develop since most can't see that to sacrifice in the beginning lets the group as a whole make the grand leaps. It's unfortunate.

The women seem to have the same goal; to promote POOL, thus promoting themselves. They work together to make the TV time happen, get the sponsors they need to hold these events, and have them promoted as much as they possibly can. Is it as much as alot of other sports? No. But it's evidently working for the WPBA, given the TV time of women pool is far greater than men. I don't know another sport where the top earners are half women (tennis maybe?) That's a pretty strong statement as to the effectiveness of the WPBA.

And please don't use the timeless, "women are prettier to watch" argument and "THAT'S why they are on TV." Ok, then why isn't women's basketball, softball, or soccer as big as the mens? Women's pool isn't popular b/c the view is better it's b/c the WPBA MAKES IT HAPPEN. Where's the MPBA?

I believe a NATIONAL governing body over pool needs to develop. Is is feasible? I don't know but it's worked for all the other successful professional sport (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.) and given the popularity of pool as a whole it has potential!! The amateur following alone is fuel potential.

Again, I'm just rambling an opinion here, but I believe that if the men and women got on the same page and vowed to make "POOL" the sport their number one priority, and not themselves, they'd see that their individual careers of players would take a turn for the better.
 
I guess I stand corrected on the Miz and teaching. I could have sworn he subbed for quite a while.:rolleyes: At any rate, it does make a good paycheck. Unfortunately all the money list people passed teaching salaries by quite a bit at half the year. Not bad, half a years work for full years wages. Makes me want a hobby. :D

I would guess that income in the 50K range could be considered comfortable by most of America's standards. Especially for a single person with no financial obligations. Might even be a pretty decent standard of living.

FWIW, ICBW.:eek:
 
GG11 said:
IThe women seem to have the same goal; to promote POOL, thus promoting themselves. They work together to make the TV time happen, get the sponsors they need to hold these events, and have them promoted as much as they possibly can.

Women's pool isn't popular b/c the view is better it's b/c the WPBA MAKES IT HAPPEN. Where's the MPBA?

Again, I'm just rambling an opinion here, but I believe that if the men and women got on the same page and vowed to make "POOL" the sport their number one priority, and not themselves, they'd see that their individual careers of players would take a turn for the better.
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YOUR DANG SKIPPY! So why isn't anyone able to lead us to where we NEED to go, WANT to go(based on intelligent thought), and KNOW we need to go there????:eek:
 
Why don't more pros have jobs? Pretty interesting question, and ultimately, it's the same quesiton as why don't people not making enough money in one job take on a second job. Then again, what qualifies as enough? That's up to every individual standing at this difficult crossroads.

In the absence of additional financial support from a significant other or relative, what options does such a person have? As I see it, the options are:

1) do nothing and accept a relatively modest lifestyle as a fact of life
2) do nothing and accept a relatively modest lifestyle in the short-term, clinging to the expectation that things will improve for people in the given line of work
3) take action to try to earn more and improve prospects on the current job, an endeavor that may or may not be possible
4) take on a second job, possibly even a third job, for supplementary income, which may or may not be practical
5) give up the job and switch to a more lucrative line of work

Each of these choices is acceptable to some and not others, and that is as it should be, for there are surely non-monetary factors in play that vary across lines of work.

If the life of a pro pool player is not always highly remunerative, it still has its charms, inclusive of a chance to travel, the right to set one's own hours much of the time, the chance to earn a living playing a game they love and, lest we forget, the chance to be fussed over by the AZB community.

To sum, each pro player is free to do as he or she pleases, and we should respect the choices each of them make, while simultaneously supporting them when we are in a position to do so.
 
lodini said:
Well, that's depressing... OK, I'll move on... I'll stick with promoting the "top tier" professional sports team that employs me... I was hoping eventually pool would raise the level of sponsorships and promotions, but it seems that so few of you seem think it's worthy of doing so.
:(
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Not really depressing, at least not for me. It is just being realistic about what you see.
Pool will never rise any higher until lots more people start playing it. It is not an intrinsically entertaining sport like football, to find it entertaining you've got to understand what is going on. John and Mary Doe don't understand what is going on during a good pool match.
 
deadstroke7 said:
I guess I stand corrected on the Miz and teaching. I could have sworn he subbed for quite a while.:rolleyes: At any rate, it does make a good paycheck. Unfortunately all the money list people passed teaching salaries by quite a bit at half the year. Not bad, half a years work for full years wages. Makes me want a hobby. :D

I would guess that income in the 50K range could be considered comfortable by most of America's standards. Especially for a single person with no financial obligations. Might even be a pretty decent standard of living.

FWIW, ICBW.:eek:
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Tenured teachers work about two-three hours of actual work a week. And in addition to the pay they get the benefit of enlightening and uplifting the children of tomorrow.

Those 50K teachers well they are the eager souls attempting to fix all the things wrong in your kid, so best bet would be to side with them in any argument. And your precious angels are a world of mystery in a group setting.
 
justnum said:
Tenured teachers work about two-three hours of actual work a week. And in addition to the pay they get the benefit of enlightening and uplifting the children of tomorrow.

Those 50K teachers well they are the eager souls attempting to fix all the things wrong in your kid, so best bet would be to side with them in any argument. And your precious angels are a world of mystery in a group setting.
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You too, have figured out the NEA?...the National EXTORTION Association? This gives me hope for the future. :)
 
DaveK said:
...So what I see in this thread is that some consider making $100K a year "a lot of money" while others see this amount as less than "a lot of money" (likely in the context of being a professional athlete).
...
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100K is a pretty good salary, if you are a employee of a normal company with normal benefits, but not if you're self-employed.
For a while years ago, I was programing on the side to help pay for my 4 sons' Jesuit High School educations, I'd work all day and come home and work all night. When I'd do my taxes at the end of the year I'd be lucky to see 50% of that money stay with me due to having to pay twice the social security on it (I had to do the employer's contribution), and self-employment tax. So right away the guys 100k is 50K at best. We can assume he'd have the normal living expenses as any of us and on top of that would have hotels and more expensive eating on the road to tournaments and the cost of travelling either air tickets or gas and vehicle wear and tear; no employer to pay any of that. Not to mention the cost of medical insurance or medical & dental expenses, and retirement saving.
Suddenly 100k doesn't look like that much money.

Of course I realize a "pro" player would do his best to fly under the government radar, but he can't hide totally and the additional expenses are there independent of the government role.

I envision at the end of the road a bitter middle aged man with no retirement, no home ownership, no family. No, 100k isn't much under those circumstances, a "pro" needs to be making a lot more than 100K to wind up content in the end.
 
deadstroke7 said:
YOUR DANG SKIPPY! So why isn't anyone able to lead us to where we NEED to go, WANT to go(based on intelligent thought), and KNOW we need to go there????:eek:
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I believe efforts have been made, but the "faith" in pool as a successful and lucrative sport doesn't exist to the fat wallets that NEED to believe in it. And of course, the IPT scandal did nothing but deter any faith from developing.

Going along with Lodini's ideas from earlier, I truly believe someone one day will just stumble onto the right path for organizing this sport. They'll select the most marketable players & advertise them with items completely unrelated to pool and develop the sport's popularity through already established brands.
 
catscradle said:
.....No, 100k isn't much under those circumstances, a "pro" needs to be making a lot more than 100K to wind up content in the end.
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This is exactly my point. A poster suggested that the is an opportunity to make "lots of money", and they backed it up with a list that showed only a small handful of top pro pool playes making more than $100K / year. I say that is not a "lots of money" opportunity, it's a "barely make it" opportunity, and only for the very best, not unlike many many other sports out there. Is it any wonder that a pool player might need a second (first ??) job.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
This is exactly my point. A poster suggested that the is an opportunity to make "lots of money", and they backed it up with a list that showed only a small handful of top pro pool playes making more than $100K / year. I say that is not a "lots of money" opportunity, it's a "barely make it" opportunity, and only for the very best, not unlike many many other sports out there. Is it any wonder that a pool player might need a second (first ??) job.

Dave
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Sigh... Since this is about me, I will clarify. Any professional athlete, no matter what their salary (or "winnings" in this case) should be able to double or triple (sometimes a lot more) their money if they capitalize on marketing/promotional/sponsorship/endorsement opportunities. The "opportunity" is there to make a lot of money. A Nov 2006 issue of the SportsBusiness Daily estimates that Jeanette Lee makes around $3-5 million a year through endorsements and tournaments combined. Anyone still think there isn't big opportunity for the top players in this sport?
 
Cudos to JL for that!

I have known some touring golf pros that worked while touring. They sold financial planning, insurance, a variety of non-tangilble products, etc...Easy to do on the road.

I would hope people would follow the path that lodini presented. If would be nice to see those who have dedicated so much and work so hard get paid well in the end.

Frustrates me a little to see a professional baseball, basketball, hockey, or whatever making an easy 7 figures and playing very little by comparision. You see players in hockey, one of the sadest paying sports of the major sports, that are barely 4th liners sit the bench and rarely skate outside of practice getting paid $400k a year. Sad a dedicated player who works as hard as many do can't even come close.
 
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