Why Don't You Just..

[Boro Nut]

... forget about the IPT and find a mega-rich person who can be trusted to be scrupulously honest, who has no criminal convictions of vested interests in ripping off players because he's already got more money than sense, and who would be only too happy to finance a pool tour involving the world's top players regularly competing for top prize money simply because he truly loves the sport?

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Hey, "BIG FISH EAT LITTLE FISH"

... forget about the IPT and find a mega-rich person who can be trusted to be scrupulously honest, who has no criminal convictions of vested interests in ripping off players because he's already got more money than sense, and who would be only too happy to finance a pool tour involving the world's top players regularly competing for top prize money simply because he truly loves the sport?

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

LOL, I like this approach. A live shiner, cast deeply among the lily pads.
Doug
( that's where the lunkers live )

 

[shanesinnott]

... forget about the IPT and find a mega-rich person who can be trusted to be scrupulously honest, who has no criminal convictions of vested interests in ripping off players because he's already got more money than sense, and who would be only too happy to finance a pool tour involving the world's top players regularly competing for top prize money simply because he truly loves the sport?

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

Let's see. The Crown Prince of Brunei is a pool player (good one I might add) that just competed in the World 9 Ball Championships and his father (the Sultan) who was formally the richest man on the planet is currently worth about 20 Billion USD....hmmm I wonder could that familly afford to put on a top $$ pool tour and pay the players....I think so!

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

sshhhh, CAN YOU KEEP A SECRET ?

Let's see. The Crown Prince of Brunei is a pool player (good one I might add) that just competed in the World 9 Ball Championships and his father (the Sultan) who was formally the richest man on the planet is currently worth about 20 Billion USD....hmmm I wonder could that familly afford to put on a top $$ pool tour and pay the players....I think so!

Dammit, Shane. Now you've gone and ruined KT's big new surprise Announcement. The Crown Prince of Brunei was a 'secret'....
Doug
( I hope that all is not lost.... again )

 

[Str8PoolMan]

... forget about the IPT and find a mega-rich person who can be trusted to be scrupulously honest, who has no criminal convictions of vested interests in ripping off players because he's already got more money than sense, and who would be only too happy to finance a pool tour involving the world's top players regularly competing for top prize money simply because he truly loves the sport?

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

The problem, my friend, was not that KT didn't meet all of these criteria. It's that he didn't meet any one of them.

Actually, none of that mattered, until he didn't pay his bills.

 

[Roadie]

Yes, but if we accept Oil Money to fund the tour then aren't we doing exactly what so many have already accused the players and fans of doing? That is selling out for "blood money". Why make this about a wealthy benefactor? The entire sport of pool would be peanuts to someone like the Prince of Brunei as a business and we could expect it to be treated as such, a whim to be swept aside whenever he tired of the hobby.

Better is to create something viable like the PGA. Yesterday I say an interview talking about the PGA plan for next year. 80 tournaments with an average of 1.5million in purses per tournament with a year ending Masters with a 3.5million prize fund. They talked about working towards having tournament averages of 3 million several years down the road. Total purses for next year, 157 million.

Why? Because people bid to host golf tournaments. It's prestigious. The PGA promises to bring the world's best and the venue promises to provide world class facilities. Each tournament has a host of sponsors who provide the cash and amentities.

It all starts however with the PGA who has the players. Being able to bring the players to the course is what allows the PGA the power to negotiate with the hosts and the sponsors.

The world championships is going on right now. It is a spectacular event. Have the players however had any say in how it is run? What the format is ? Who is allowed to play? No, they have not, at least not to my knowledge in any signifigant way.

If the players had a worldwide organization like the PGA then the World Championships would be decided amonst players who have paid their dues literally and figuratively. No longer would a Jeff De Luna or Jharome Pena be able to get into the world's most prestigious 9-ball event by virtue of winning a qualifier. A player must earn the berth by being ranked among the top players in their nation. This is off topic a bit and not to take anything away from the great talents that are emerging at the WC, but it is indicative of how the players as a whole are at the mercy of promoters who set the format.

I want to see a true worldwide ranking based on competition worldwide.

 

[macguy]

He does exist.

... forget about the IPT and find a mega-rich person who can be trusted to be scrupulously honest, who has no criminal convictions of vested interests in ripping off players because he's already got more money than sense, and who would be only too happy to finance a pool tour involving the world's top players regularly competing for top prize money simply because he truly loves the sport?

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

Some may not know who this man is and some of you will, He is Roger King see links below.
Roger is a pool player likes to play 9-ball and has been known to hang with pool players. As rich and famous as he is he can often be found at the dog track with Danny DiLiberto and other players and gamblers. I would see him in the pool room and he is a very approachable guy. If someone brought him something he liked, (Jay, are you listening?), with the snap of his fingers he could change pool forever. I don't think it would not have to be a big money maker, he is very charitable.

http://www.kingworld.com/about/index.html

http://www.cbscorporation.com/our_company/divisions/king_world/executives.php

 

[sjm]

Yes, but if we accept Oil Money to fund the tour then aren't we doing exactly what so many have already accused the players and fans of doing? That is selling out for "blood money". Why make this about a wealthy benefactor? The entire sport of pool would be peanuts to someone like the Prince of Brunei as a business and we could expect it to be treated as such, a whim to be swept aside whenever he tired of the hobby.

Better is to create something viable like the PGA. Yesterday I say an interview talking about the PGA plan for next year. 80 tournaments with an average of 1.5million in purses per tournament with a year ending Masters with a 3.5million prize fund. They talked about working towards having tournament averages of 3 million several years down the road. Total purses for next year, 157 million.

Why? Because people bid to host golf tournaments. It's prestigious. The PGA promises to bring the world's best and the venue promises to provide world class facilities. Each tournament has a host of sponsors who provide the cash and amentities.

It all starts however with the PGA who has the players. Being able to bring the players to the course is what allows the PGA the power to negotiate with the hosts and the sponsors.

The world championships is going on right now. It is a spectacular event. Have the players however had any say in how it is run? What the format is ? Who is allowed to play? No, they have not, at least not to my knowledge in any signifigant way.

If the players had a worldwide organization like the PGA then the World Championships would be decided amonst players who have paid their dues literally and figuratively. No longer would a Jeff De Luna or Jharome Pena be able to get into the world's most prestigious 9-ball event by virtue of winning a qualifier. A player must earn the berth by being ranked among the top players in their nation. This is off topic a bit and not to take anything away from the great talents that are emerging at the WC, but it is indicative of how the players as a whole are at the mercy of promoters who set the format.

I want to see a true worldwide ranking based on competition worldwide.

An exceptional post. Well said!

 

[Nostroke]

If the players had a worldwide organization like the PGA then the World Championships would be decided amonst players who have paid their dues literally and figuratively. No longer would a Jeff De Luna or Jharome Pena be able to get into the world's most prestigious 9-ball event by virtue of winning a qualifier. A player must earn the berth by being ranked among the top players in their nation. This is off topic a bit and not to take anything away from the great talents that are emerging at the WC, but it is indicative of how the players as a whole are at the mercy of promoters who set the format.

I want to see a true worldwide ranking based on competition worldwide.

I agree with everything but your stance on qualifiers.

Some Players don't want to go "on Tour" but they still play real well and if you deny them, you don't get a true World Champion IMHO.

I think the Q'rs are a good idea. Last time i was in Cardiff Ronnie Alcano couldn't qualify-too tough!. One year Luat couldnt qualify-too tough!!. Keep in mind these guys got 5 or 6 chances!!

These Qualifying Tournaments have excellent players for the most part and the tournaments are nearly as hard to win as the main event. NO way would i consider a WPC Champion the best if the tournament didn't allow for Non Tour Players.

 

[DaveK]

Better is to create something viable like the PGA. Yesterday I say an interview talking about the PGA plan for next year. 80 tournaments with an average of 1.5million in purses per tournament with a year ending Masters with a 3.5million prize fund. They talked about working towards having tournament averages of 3 million several years down the road. Total purses for next year, 157 million.

Why? Because people bid to host golf tournaments. It's prestigious. The PGA promises to bring the world's best and the venue promises to provide world class facilities. Each tournament has a host of sponsors who provide the cash and amentities.

It all starts however with the PGA who has the players. Being able to bring the players to the course is what allows the PGA the power to negotiate with the hosts and the sponsors.

While this may be somewhat accurate today, one needs to look at the history of the PGA and the PGA tour. There were pro golf tournaments in the US in the late 1800's. The PGA was founded in 1916, the brainchild of Rodman Wanamaker, a true patron. There was no professional tournament golfer association until 1932. The serious money started to flow in the late 50's to early 60's. Throughout this history there were tournaments, independant and affiliated, but pro golfers were for the most part a struggling lot until after Arnie. Golf was helped along the way by many successful promoters. Pool seems to be about where golf was 80 years ago. While I appreciate the efforts of most of our current pool promoters, none are even close to being in the same league as Fred Corcoran or Deane Beman or Wanamaker. And in reality it all starts with the promoter, and you can't "get there" overnight.

Dave

 

[abbassi]

""Yes, but if we accept Oil Money to fund the tour then aren't we doing exactly what so many have already accused the players and fans of doing? That is selling out for "blood money". Why make this about a wealthy benefactor? The entire sport of pool would be peanuts to someone like the Prince of Brunei as a business and we could expect it to be treated as such, a whim to be swept aside whenever he tired of the hobby. ""

Why would you call this guys money "blood money". He hasn't killed anyone and likes to play pool.
If anything I would call KT's money "blood money". Wouldn't You?

 

[TheOne]

I agree with everything but your stance on qualifiers.

Some Players don't want to go "on Tour" but they still play real well and if you deny them, you don't get a true World Champion IMHO.

I think the Q'rs are a good idea. Last time i was in Cardiff Ronnie Alcano couldn't qualify-too tough!. One year Luat couldnt qualify-too tough!!. Keep in mind these guys got 5 or 6 chances!!

These Qualifying Tournaments have excellent players for the most part and the tournaments are nearly as hard to win as the main event. NO way would i consider a WPC Champion the best if the tournament didn't allow for Non Tour Players.

TAP TAP TAP...........(oh go on then)....TAP!

The WPC is almost the perfect format IMO. Qualifiers generate cash (as much as $100k last year), give local talent a chance which adds to the popularity and atmosphere of the event, BUT most importantly give world class players that aren't ranked in their own country the chance to PROVE they should be there. There are many reasons why some players aren't ranked, they might not have the means to enter all their regional ranking events, the might not be able to get time off work, they might as many do live abroad and therefore not eligible to represent the country they live in.

There are a gazillion (sorry Kevin just borrowing your term) other reasons why a player might not be ranked in their own country. The BOTTOM LINE is if you want the WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIPS to crown the greatest player on earth you have to give EVERY player on earth a chance to prove he is the best. Or if you look at it another way take away the excuse of "he's not the best because so and so didn't compete"

Until they changed the format this year I thought matchroom had the perfect format, the groups are probably a little too small now. If they had kept it at groups of 8 and increased the races to 7 or 8 they would have had the perfect format and an excellent qualification system IMO.

 

[Da Poet]

Now where did I put that Crown Prince of Brunei?

Boro Nut

Yesh, could be a real shinderella shtory!

 

[Roadie]

""Yes, but if we accept Oil Money to fund the tour then aren't we doing exactly what so many have already accused the players and fans of doing? That is selling out for "blood money". Why make this about a wealthy benefactor? The entire sport of pool would be peanuts to someone like the Prince of Brunei as a business and we could expect it to be treated as such, a whim to be swept aside whenever he tired of the hobby. ""

Why would you call this guys money "blood money". He hasn't killed anyone and likes to play pool.
If anything I would call KT's money "blood money". Wouldn't You?

I am making a reference to the fact that many people consider "oil money" to be blood money because they point to all the wars fought over and oppressive regimes enabled through oil consumption. I mean only that if Trudeau is condemned for 'how' he made the money that he used to fund the IPT then all others should be held to same standard or we shouldn't worry to much about it and just play pool.

 

[Roadie]

I agree the WPC is pretty good in it's current format. I guess I just think of a world championship as more than just another tournament. To me it should be a test of the best players from each country with the players sent by their respective countries based on their national rankings as well as by the world rankings. I know it's quite an accomplishment to win a qualifier to get in the WPC but I don't believe it should be allowed. I think that if a player wants to be known as the champion of the world then he should play in the events that allow him to be ranked among the best in the world. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[TheOne]

I agree the WPC is pretty good in it's current format. I guess I just think of a world championship as more than just another tournament. To me it should be a test of the best players from each country with the players sent by their respective countries based on their national rankings as well as by the world rankings. I know it's quite an accomplishment to win a qualifier to get in the WPC but I don't believe it should be allowed. I think that if a player wants to be known as the champion of the world then he should play in the events that allow him to be ranked among the best in the world. But, that's just my opinion.

I respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from but if this ever happens it really wouldn't be a true world champion. For example when I lived in Australia I wasn't able to play in WPC qualifying events because I wasn't an Australian citizen. I wasn't able to get ranked in the UK because obviously I couldn't play in the ranking events. If I wanted to play in the WPC the only option would have been the qualifiers. Now I may not deserve a spot but this is just one example of why many people are not in the position to do what you suggest.

Also many countries have single tournament qualifiers which earn a spot in the WPC, for example if you win the Oceana tournament, or get to the final of the Euro Tour, this is no different IMO than the WPC qualifiers.

I don't disagree with your view, idealistically its a good idea, I just think it wouldn't produce a true world champion because maybe only 90% of the greatest players in the world would be ranked. For example many USA players didn't play on the UPA because of various reasons and therefore would have missed out.

Imagine if Earl had missed the 2002 WPC in his prime due to politics for example, would that tournament really have produced the true world champion?

I do like your posts though Roadie, well written and well thought out.

 

[Da Poet]

Better is to create something viable like the PGA. Yesterday I say an interview talking about the PGA plan for next year. 80 tournaments with an average of 1.5million in purses per tournament with a year ending Masters with a 3.5million prize fund. They talked about working towards having tournament averages of 3 million several years down the road. Total purses for next year, 157 million.

Why? Because people bid to host golf tournaments. It's prestigious. The PGA promises to bring the world's best and the venue promises to provide world class facilities. Each tournament has a host of sponsors who provide the cash and amentities.

It all starts however with the PGA who has the players. Being able to bring the players to the course is what allows the PGA the power to negotiate with the hosts and the sponsors.

The world championships is going on right now. It is a spectacular event. Have the players however had any say in how it is run? What the format is ? Who is allowed to play? No, they have not, at least not to my knowledge in any signifigant way.

If the players had a worldwide organization like the PGA then the World Championships would be decided amonst players who have paid their dues literally and figuratively. No longer would a Jeff De Luna or Jharome Pena be able to get into the world's most prestigious 9-ball event by virtue of winning a qualifier. A player must earn the berth by being ranked among the top players in their nation. This is off topic a bit and not to take anything away from the great talents that are emerging at the WC, but it is indicative of how the players as a whole are at the mercy of promoters who set the format.

I want to see a true worldwide ranking based on competition worldwide.

Looks like another successful hijacking!

Golf has it's majors, none of which claim to be the world title. Two out of four are "Open" championships, the PGA Championship allows 25 "club pros" to qualify, and the Masters really wouldn't exactly qualify for what you were suggesting either.

Sponsors will always rule when it comes to player selection. Hopefully, pool will reach a point where this becomes a bigger problem than it is right now.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Why? Because people bid to host golf tournaments. It's prestigious. The PGA promises to bring the world's best and the venue promises to provide world class facilities. Each tournament has a host of sponsors who provide the cash and amentities.

This is how the 7 Eurotour events are organized. If a poolhall or organizer (at least 2 events are at hotels) they need to pay 7 000 Euro (almost 10 000 $) just for being host for the event. Then they can get some in return if a number of local players is participating (think it must be at least 30), and they can have ads in the venue.

The Eurotour is great tournaments, and the IBP is running them almost perfectly, and the pricemoney increases each year. Now each event is guaranteed 40 000 € in pricemoney, with about 700 € for 17.th, and 100 € for 33rd. 5 000 € in first.